I've just read most of your thread... Very interesting to get an actual users pov..

I worked for Nissan up until October last year and was a master tech so EV was part of my job.. They aren't very well liked by mechanics as there is nothing to do service wise, so in years to come people will be out of a job, ahha. I went on  a test day at the factory once, with an un restricted Leaf, that was interesting when up against, well, infront of a 370Z round the track.

By February 2013 Nissan sold (more likely registered) 50,000 LEAFs.

Just six months later it's just hit 75,000.

Two years to get to 50k, now they seem to have taken off a bit.

Considering that's globally I'd have expected higher figures.

Considering that's globally I'd have expected higher figures.

 

Considering it's the first mass produced electric car they have a lot of prejudice to overcome.  So many battery scare stories etc...

People don't generally take to new power tech in cars, Natural Gas fell flat.

Not to mention it only makes financial sense (IMO) to people who have to travel 50-60 miles per day without work charging and 50-120 with work charging.

 

It certainly doesn't suit a lot of people.

 

Oh, and you you need off street parking really to charge it overnight.

 

Until they can make one with a real range of 120-150 miles it's always going to be limited by range concerns and scare stories of the battery costing more than the car. (which it doesn't)

I've just read most of your thread... Very interesting to get an actual users pov..

I worked for Nissan up until October last year and was a master tech so EV was part of my job.. They aren't very well liked by mechanics as there is nothing to do service wise, so in years to come people will be out of a job, ahha. I went on  a test day at the factory once, with an un restricted Leaf, that was interesting when up against, well, infront of a 370Z round the track.

 

Hi Chris,

Yes, my tech told me they are seriously quick with the limiters off.  But the battery doesn't last long with that kind of power draw!

I believe at service time they just top up the screenwash, check the brakes and rotate the tyres.  Although the last thing just seems an excuse for something to do.

I've been following this thread too with great interest for a period of months.  I don't know what car I should be buying next and am soon to deal with a daily 98 mile commute.  At circa £300/month in fuel costs, I could spend that on an EV and have 'free fuel' at my place of work but if I can't charge it one day because the parking space is occupied, I wouldn't be able to get home.  Range is just that little bit short on the Leaf and even the proposed EV Golf isn't promising much more.  

 

But... I'm even more interested now you've mentioned the Tesla S BossFox. I hope you fill us in with the details when you get your hands on it.  I realise they are also hoping to hit the more affordable market and introduce something to rival the 3 series in size, performance and price in 2015.  That could be the car I'm after!

 

I've really got an EV itch that needs scratching!

I've been following this thread too with great interest for a period of months.  I don't know what car I should be buying next and am soon to deal with a daily 98 mile commute.  At circa £300/month in fuel costs, I could spend that on an EV and have 'free fuel' at my place of work but if I can't charge it one day because the parking space is occupied, I wouldn't be able to get home.  Range is just that little bit short on the Leaf and even the proposed EV Golf isn't promising much more.  

 

But... I'm even more interested now you've mentioned the Tesla S BossFox. I hope you fill us in with the details when you get your hands on it.  I realise they are also hoping to hit the more affordable market and introduce something to rival the 3 series in size, performance and price in 2015.  That could be the car I'm after!

 

I've really got an EV itch that needs scratching!

 

 

The Tesla gen3 car due in 2/3 years is going to be the real game changer if I am honest.

Hoping the range will be a real 180-200 miles.

 

98 miles... 49 per trip?

If you can't get to the parking space you (relistically) need a way to add 30 miles before you go home in winter/bad weather.

That's 4 hours via a 13a plug or you need a handy Rapid Charger.

 

I can see your concerns.

 

When I went on my 440 mile weekend trip I took a 50m extension lead... just in case.

What was the "real range" you were getting out of your original LEAF Richard? I'm assuming that one's been moved on after the shunt with the lorry?

Winter, -5c with the heater on and poor weather (wipers. lights etc...) I was getting 60.

Spring, +12c with no heater and fine weather I was getting 80.

 

I did try driving very carefully in the good weather and managed around 95.  But I don't want to be doing 50mph on major routes, I prefer to do 62mph with the lorries.

After talking to you at the meet about your leaf, it really does sound like the charging is not as much of an issue as most people make out.

 

Would be really intersted to have a look at the tesla if you decide to go for one as i have always been a fan of the Roadster (the Electric Lotus)

 

If they make the tech aviliable to all i might even consider converting the Jetta to electric... Not like it hasnt been done before:

http://www.eco-rally.org/german-auto-spares-turner-race-developments-electric-vw-polo

Although this is proberbly Many years off and all Mk2's would have rotten away by then..... But would love an EVmk2

Edited 27 August, 201312 yr by vRSsunroof

Winter, -5c with the heater on and poor weather (wipers. lights etc...) I was getting 60.

Spring, +12c with no heater and fine weather I was getting 80.

 

 

Ouch. I was under the impression you ought to be able to get at least 150 miles out of a charge in the Nissan :(

 

No doubting that EVs are the future direction right now though, looks like I'll have to make more headway on my "move to a house with a private drive / garage for charging" plan!

The Tesla gen3 car due in 2/3 years is going to be the real game changer if I am honest.

Hoping the range will be a real 180-200 miles.

 

98 miles... 49 per trip?

If you can't get to the parking space you (relistically) need a way to add 30 miles before you go home in winter/bad weather.

That's 4 hours via a 13a plug or you need a handy Rapid Charger.

 

I can see your concerns.

 

When I went on my 440 mile weekend trip I took a 50m extension lead... just in case.

 

I think thats the issue, 13A charging is too slow if you're commuting and need to top-up in an emergency and it's your only option available.  I'll be working in Oxford which is supposedly 'an electric city'.  Google informs me that there is nothing to prevent regular folk parking in EV parking spaces equipped with rapid chargers.  If I knew I could rapid charge in a forecourt (much like the Tesla supercharging network) then I'd buy a leaf or hold out for the Golf if it's released on time.   

 

I take it you've manage to avoid any call outs due to a flat battery mid travels?  I do wonder if I'm worrying too much about not being able to park and charge.  

 

I'd snap up a Tesla S and happily accept 200-250 range if It fell within budget.  Alas...  Really looking forward to reading your experiences. 

I noticed last night that my local Nissan dealer now has a rapid charger outside, which appears to be unlocked for anyone to use.

The downside is it's behind their bollards, so you couldn't pop in after they shut which is a shame.

 

Out of interest, do all EVs use a standard charging plug/socket? A Twizy could get through the gap

Ouch. I was under the impression you ought to be able to get at least 150 miles out of a charge in the Nissan :(

 

No, the Gen1 LEAF is rated for 109 miles and the Gen2 car is rated for 124 miles.

Think of it like official MPG figures on petrol cars, in other words a lie.

 

I'd suggest 80 to be realistic.

Gen2 does not suffer the high drop in winter though as it has a far more efficient heat pump.

I take it you've manage to avoid any call outs due to a flat battery mid travels?  I do wonder if I'm worrying too much about not being able to park and charge.  

 

I've never run out of range.

 

Nissan set the car up so when you get down to around 7 or 8 miles of range it "bongs" and a warning comes up.

That's 4kW or about 12-16 miles.

So it secretly hides about 10% of it's range, which is not factored into the ranges I quote.

under 4 miles of range it just shows "****" to make you panic.

 

I did finish one journey on ****.

Other than I've not had it under 7.

You just get in the habit of plugging in when you can.

So it secretly hides about 10% of it's range, which is not factored into the ranges I quote.

under 4 miles of range it just shows "****" to make you panic.

 

I did finish one journey on ****.

Other than I've not had it under 7.

You just get in the habit of plugging in when you can.

 

That's similar to my Bravo which goes to --- when you drop below 30 miles just to make you really nervous.

I pushed mine way too far at the weekend, and ended up putting 55.5 litres in. It has a 55 litre tank!

I noticed last night that my local Nissan dealer now has a rapid charger outside, which appears to be unlocked for anyone to use.

The downside is it's behind their bollards, so you couldn't pop in after they shut which is a shame.

 

Out of interest, do all EVs use a standard charging plug/socket? A Twizy could get through the gap

 

This is the biggest problem with the car.  The Nissan dealerships.

Alas, they do fit the chargers where they are only viable when the garage is open.

 

Considering it's a good commuting car but you may want to go further afield at weekends it's a PITA that the dealers all shut down and lock the chargers away about 5-6pm on Sat/Sun. :(

 

Fortunately there is a growing number of motorway services (and other places) now equipped with Rapid Chargers.

That's how I did the Forest of Dean from Essex without touching a Nissan dealer.

 

Yes, it takes you a bit longer to get there, but the fuel is free.

 

 

There are two plugs in use with Nissan/Renault. (And the new BMWi has something different...)

Regular charging uses a type 1 socket for 3 pin plug 10A charging, 16A charging or optional 32A charging.

The chargers at the dealers are Rapid 30 minute Chargers.

These need the "ChaMeDo" plug.  I'm not sure if the Twizzy has this rapid charge capacity.

With it's smaller battery capacity I don't thik it does.

 

In typical silly planning, Nissan/Renault, BMW and Tesla use different plugs. :wonder:

 

Think of it like official MPG figures on petrol cars, in other words a lie.

 

 

 

As a commuter car a leaf would probably suit me down to the ground right now (if you ignore the lack of charging ability either at work or at home, of course) - but for other uses I'd probably want at least a 200 mile range to cover things like the frequent trips to my sister's place. :think:

 

Tesla it is then

In typical silly planning, Nissan/Renault, BMW and Tesla use different plugs. :wonder:

 

D'oh!

That's definitely something that would need sorting for mass market sales.

You wouldn't have different size/shape petrol pumps between manufacturers!

Tesla it is then

 

They need to get the price right though.

The LEAF works because it's reasonably cheap. (Similar price to an Octavia, but with lower running costs).

The future/better EVs run the risk of greater capacity at greater costs.

Which means they run the risk of not saving you enough to justify buying them until fuel gets very expensive.

 

How can anyone spend £60k+ on a Tesla and then say it's saving them £50 per week on fuel?

It's a lifestyle choice.

D'oh!

That's definitely something that would need sorting for mass market sales.

You wouldn't have different size/shape petrol pumps between manufacturers!

 

Yes, things like that do wind me up.

Less common plugs means more complicated charging infrastructure.

Not to mention there are about three different websites showing charger places, not all agree.

 

In other words, setting yourself up to fail.

 

Nissan has got round this by donating Rapid Chargers to organisations to install.  Rumor is they cost £8,000 each.

This is the reason they have popped up in motorway services etc...

 

Zapmap: (I find this one of the best)

http://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/charging-points.php

 

It's a lifestyle choice.

 

I won't disagree with that.  It'll be a long time off yet before getting an EV would be viable for me as things stand, mainly because I simply don't have anywhere I could realistically charge one, so the only way I'd feel comfortable getting one is with >200 mile range.  For me it would not be so much about the 'fuel savings', but using a cleaner (at the point of consumption, at least) technology without it limiting the freedom I currently have with my petrol car.

The hidden range in the Leaf re-assures me slightly.  In 6 months time, I'd like to be within 35/40 miles of Oxford making a commute there and back possible from a home charge to 100%.  If you suggest 80 miles + 12 emergency then that's comforting to know.

 

I wasn't aware that each manufacture is using different charging plugs/points.  Do you know if any sort of 1 for all converter exists?  I guess with the rapid high amperage outlets, this would be pricy if it did exist... 

 

The savings in fuel, tax, servicing and maintenance of my 04 Fabia VRS would pay for the Leaf over a 3 year period meaning I could own the car for the price of driving my current diesel for the next 3 years.  Yet the one thing putting me off the leaf is aesthetics.  The Golf appeals more right now but I'm not sure it'll compete with the Leaf on pricing.  Perhaps I should just hold out for the next gen Tesla.  I'm clearly too eager! 

The hidden range in the Leaf re-assures me slightly.  In 6 months time, I'd like to be within 35/40 miles of Oxford making a commute there and back possible from a home charge to 100%.  If you suggest 80 miles + 12 emergency then that's comforting to know.

 

I wasn't aware that each manufacture is using different charging plugs/points.  Do you know if any sort of 1 for all converter exists?  I guess with the rapid high amperage outlets, this would be pricy if it did exist... 

 

The savings in fuel, tax, servicing and maintenance of my 04 Fabia VRS would pay for the Leaf over a 3 year period meaning I could own the car for the price of driving my current diesel for the next 3 years.  Yet the one thing putting me off the leaf is aesthetics.  The Golf appeals more right now but I'm not sure it'll compete with the Leaf on pricing.  Perhaps I should just hold out for the next gen Tesla.  I'm clearly too eager! 

 

There are two power sources, AC charging and the Rapid Chargers that are DC.

The latter are the 30 minute ones.

 

 

Any electric car can take AC with an adapter or the correct cable, but that's the slower way of charging.

The car converts the AC current to DC via it's onboard charger.

10A 3 pin plug = 7 miles per hour.

16A = 10 miles per hour.

32A = 20 miles per hour. (optional extra on LEAF)

 

So with the right cable you can plug any electric car into a charging station at a hospital, services, hotel etc...

But you can only use the 30 minute special Rapid chargers for longer distance runs if you have a LEAF. (Renault starting these too)

 

Yes, the LEAF is a bit odd looking.  That's why I refered to it as a Frog in post 1.

But with the fuel, servicing, maintenence, VED savings etc... I just don't care!

Great thread this Richard...  All makes sense apart from the Leaf just being pig ugly I'm sorry.  I don't get why they had to make it so willfully ugly.  Now this is more my kind of style.  The new e-Golf:

 

 

Certainly in the looks department.  Cost wise I'm sure you won't get one of these for just under £19,000! So financially your Leaf will still better.

 

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/08/27/volkswagen-shows-e-golf-e-up-before-frankfurt/

There are two plugs in use with Nissan/Renault. (And the new BMWi has something different...)

Regular charging uses a type 1 socket for 3 pin plug 10A charging, 16A charging or optional 32A charging.

The chargers at the dealers are Rapid 30 minute Chargers.

These need the "ChaMeDo" plug.  I'm not sure if the Twizzy has this rapid charge capacity.

With it's smaller battery capacity I don't thik it does.

 

In typical silly planning, Nissan/Renault, BMW and Tesla use different plugs. :wonder:

The one I saw on the news that was installed at some shopping centre had 12 pins?

 

I've seen 13a plugs, 16amp blue commando plugs, 16amp 3 phase commando plugs and 32a commando plugs.  But what is the car end?