7-speed DSG was designed for "small torque" cars in the first place. I think the published figure was 250Nm (or was it inf lb/ft?) and for trnasverse motors i.e. usual small motor arrangement. New ones are longitudal and have much higher torque ratings. I also seem to remember quite a weight penalty in favour of 7-speed DSG compared to 6-speed version. I do not remeber the quoted torque limits on 6spdeed DSG, there is also more that one versio of it me thinks.

I think both are great, don't get me wrong. Horses for courses I suposse

250 Nm is the figure.

This is plenty to produce a pretty quick car but the 7 speed box has been known to take half as much again ie 380 Nm with some tuners before serious life shortening.

The new 1.8 TSI with 180 hp, still 250Nm of torque.

0-100 kph is 7.3 for the manual so expect same to DSG as per previous version and current ones with DSG on 1.4 TSI.

http://www.autoevolution.com/engine/skoda-octavia-2013-18-tsi-180-hp.html

But also CO2 of 131 gm/km and near 50 mpg combined fuel consumption for DSG ie better than the manual. Just hope the definately bring it to the UK.

http://new.skoda-auto.com/en/news/2012-12-27-most-economical-octavia

"The highest-performance petrol engine for the Octavia is the 1.8 TSI Green tec with 132 kW (180 hp). Maximum torque of 250 Nm is available between 1,250 and 5,000 rpm. In combination with a 7-speed DSG direct shift gearbox, combined-cycle fuel consumption is 5.7 l/100 km and emissions are 131 g CO₂ per kilometre."

Don't forget the stated 250NM was not the limit that it is capable of but the outputs which VAG chose to break down its use with. VAG in their technical release stated that they chose to use the 7 Spd dry box in any engine with less than 250NM (The vRS has exactly 250NM as std). Any engine between 250NM and 350NM gets the DSG6 Wet box. The engines above that output get the 7spd DSG Wet box.

Don't forget the stated 250NM was not the limit that it is capable of but the outputs which VAG chose to break down its use with. VAG in their technical release stated that they chose to use the 7 Spd dry box in any engine with less than 250NM (The vRS has exactly 250NM as std). Any engine between 250NM and 350NM gets the DSG6 Wet box. The engines above that output get the 7spd DSG Wet box.

As I understand it the DQ200 7 speed dry box was reckoned to last 400,000 Km runnng at up to 250 Nm. With the better fuel economy and problaby cheaper productions costs it would make no sense to use the 6 speed DQ250 in most petrol Octys and it does not fit in the Fabia.

It suits the 1.8 TSI best of all IMO despite the 1.8 TSI easily being abe to make more than 250NM of torque, as the 1.4 TSI already does this, but with the widest of torque plateaus making 160 hp in the outgoing 18 TSI and 180hp in the new 1.8TSI the acceleration and fuel economy figures are pretty impressive compared to all the higher powered Octys. It would be interesting to have seen the twin charge in the Octy but perhaps they thought it too highly stressed for a higher mileage version. (Our Fabia VRS uses ver little fuel even though caned much of the time, just lucky).

I would really have liked to see the 7 speed DSG uprated to run on the TSI VRS Octy, only a 10% or so stretch on the torque figure and fuel consumption probably would have reached 40 mpg combined. I rather think of the 7 speed as being for the higher revving engines rather than small engines and of course for the Polo chasis variants as the lardy 6 speed wet did not fit. 7 speed just happens to be the better choice in the Octy as well IMO. You pays your money. When are we getting an 8 speed?

https://www.volkswag...ntlichkeit.html

Edited 28 March, 201313 yr by lol

^ I'd agree with that

I wouldnt. I had a Fabia vRS estate and whilst its engine and gearbox were great and it was bloody quick in a straight line I found it strangely unsatisfying to drive.

When pushed the handling became v ragged, combination of skinny track and high ride height mixed with too much suspension travel. The ESP and XDS also struggled to reign in the low down power and found it often hindered rather than helped progress. Much of the problem is that the car is underpinned with old Polo tech which is not particularly well sorted either.

Mix that with wooden brakes and overly light power steering with little or no feel........its not a hot hatch in the Renaultsport Clio sense thats for sure.

The above and its generally poor (31mpg) fuel economy did for it in the end; also whilst I had no major problems with mine it became hard to ignore the number of reports coming in of peoples cars blowing up or generally experiencing engine problems, making it hard to accept the twinchargers longer term reliability.

I traded it for a new Octavia Blackline DSG estate and havent looked back. Its definitely not quite as perky but in the way it stops and steers it kicks the ass out of the Fabia, all my opinion of course. Its also bigger, better equipped and generally more confortable with more space and an even bigger load area. It cost 4k more

So id have been disappointed if Id not felt this way but i see it as money well spent.

Go drive one and see for yourself but id be surprised if you rated it higher than your Octavia.

Edited 28 March, 201313 yr by pipsyp

Worth waiting for the new Octy III vRS in a couple of months? Will no doubt render the old octy vRS obsolete (in my opinion) and be quicker than the Fabia

Worth waiting for the new Octy III vRS in a couple of months? Will no doubt render the old octy vRS obsolete (in my opinion) and be quicker than the Fabia

Going by the OPs first post sounds like he wants to potentially save a bit of money not spend a load more on a MK3 vRS. I bet you'll get little or no change out of 25k on a manual petrol when they are finally available; 1st customer orders wont hit UK soik until much later this year in any case; its going to be a cracking car no doubt but practically brand new MK6 GTi money for an Octavia vRS thats just bonkers.

Im keeping an eye on the second hand prices of the Mk2 vRS. Hopefully they will tumble nicely once the Mk3 vRS is released.

Im keeping an eye on the second hand prices of the Mk2 vRS. Hopefully they will tumble nicely once the Mk3 vRS is released.

Im not so sure Sy, if the new one remains ridiculously priced i think used values of later MK2 FLs will probably hold uo quite well; particularly the diesels if the new CR is delayed (suspect it will be to help TSi sales).

That said i think TSIs are very good value compared to the diesels right now.....thinking you should go back to a TSi with a KO4 conversion?

I could be tempted and it would be K04 if i did. The missus wants me too. She wasnt happy when i sold my last one and she hates the Fabia lol.

Ah, there we go, finally we learned the REAL reasons for the signature above your avatar

As for the vRS v Octy.

I drove new Octy III with 105PS TDi - hardly any grunt to push the chassis and susp to its limit. I was gobsmacked with how much understeer it had and how zero steering feedback I experienced. I went out alone for the test drive of 20-30 minutes and came back with a car stinking of overheated new parts - I really tested it. Then, just to make sure I wasn't biased or anything I took my vRS the exactly same routes directly after I dropped the Octy off at the dealers. vRS had no problems whatsoever.

Mind you, I loved new Octy and will be ordering the estate as soon as it is available but it is not a performance car in way or shape. Maybe vRS version will have a different suspension and better weighted steering to address the above issues but one think I cannot tolerate in a "performance car" is understeer of such magnitude. You can get any car to understeer if you get into a corner fast enough and try to change your trajectory but that is not the point.

I also tested my 7-speed DSG on the subject of being in the wrong gear after hard breaking when wanting to accelerate hard again. I braked from very high speed to take a left turn. I was mindfull of the gears indicated in S-mode on maxidot. I needed 3-rd gear on the exit. On the approach I was in 5th while under heavy breaking. At the exit, to my great surprise it was in 3rd and I could accelerate at limit of grip with all the electronics fighting hard to keep the car in line - without the electronic "crutches" I'd not dare to take the corner at the speed I did

Im keeping an eye on the second hand prices of the Mk2 vRS. Hopefully they will tumble nicely once the Mk3 vRS is released.

So you do not hate this car so much afterall?

So you do not hate this car so much afterall?

I'm guessing he means the Octavia rather than the Fabia.

A Mk 2 Fabia vRS is what it is,

get in and drive it and it goes and drives how ever you want.

All the bad handling and such stuff on here all the time, is really odd because the car will drive perfectly civilised up to National speed limits as standard and will do the same at double those.

I keep hearing about dropping it for looks.

If handling is a worry, fit Upgraded Suspension that works, study what it needs, springs, dampers, bushes, ARB, or whatever

not just short springs that are for looks more than handling.

Lower is not automatically giving better handling or suitable if you are driving with more weight carried.

*Funniest is where it is described as having a Crashy Ride, and then the 20mm or 30mm drop Springs sort out that crashy ride..*

Well its still on 205/40/17's and it is on shorter and not much better springs, it might lean less if you

thought it did lean or go with the flow as i see it, it can hardly be less crashy.

Not amazing handling when standard on some cars, but not as bad as many here seem to think it is.

but they are not all the same and an estate is different from a hatch,

when fully loaded, are you going thrashing on 60 mph limit roads with your nearest and dearest in.

It certainly does not wallow on a Motorway with 4 passengers and luggage.

All the Modifying, failures and upgrade stuff is odd.

Some appear not to check tyre pressures, know what they should be at for different temperatures or loads.

Some fail to fit suitable tyres for their needs, but expect excellent traction when driving at full chat in the wet, cold etc

Some do not appear to know what the Oil level is or how to check it,

or want to tune but do not know what the standard spark plugs are or what the gap should be.

Its just a car and not an expensive one, if you do not like it, it seems simple,

get shot of it.

george

I'm guessing he means the Octavia rather than the Fabia.

Oh, OK

Lots of what George said is spot on. I'm sure people expect touring car like handling from a Skoda. Really? You just take it for what it is and it really annoys me when people don't. Sure it rolls a little but nowhere near as much as people claim. Brakes are fine until they overheat. I can cover ground very very quickly in mine with no problems. If you adapt your driving style to the car it's not a problem while keeping an eye on tyre pressures. This can throw out handling a lot with almost every Skoda I've driven. It's a bit like someone trying to push a square peg into a round hole and wondering why it doesn't go. Try adapting your driving style and work with the car rather than hassling it into doing things it doesn't want to.

The other odd thing is it is faster, and handles better than the mk1 fab vrs, but no one has a bad word to say about that one!

Handles well enough, goes fast enough, seems to be more roomy than it has any right to be, can get into the 5L per 100km petrol range when driven sensibly.

In short, it's the best bang for buck performance car going around, and I'm more than happy with mine. :love:

Edited 29 March, 201313 yr by OzFabia

George goes for long rambling replies,as other may have noticed I don't.

The reason why some,like me,feel the handling could be better is that it doesn't handle as as well as my previous Octy vRs mk2 petrol.

The natural expectation would be that a Fabia with the same badge, being a smaller and lighter vehicle,would handle better but the reverse is the case.

IMO the upgrade Eibach springs should have been standard...penny pinching by Skoda.I agree it's not about lowering per se.

The standard shocks are Okish with the springs but an upgrade to these would be better,more control AND more comfort IMO.

Although the best way could well be leave the springs as they are and upgrade roll bars and shocks all round.

Having said all that it's a great value package and I will be keeping mine unless I get a lot of problems with it ,but it's trouble free so far.

The reason why some,like me,feel the handling could be better is that it doesn't handle as as well as my previous Octy vRs mk2 petrol.

The natural expectation would be that a Fabia with the same badge, being a smaller and lighter vehicle,would handle better but the reverse is the case.

Summarizes it perfectly.

To the point.

The Octavia does sit and hold the road due to being a bit of a heavy lump.

Handles so so, fuel cost due to the weight is rather high.

george

George goes for long rambling replies,as other may have noticed I don't.

The reason why some,like me,feel the handling could be better is that it doesn't handle as as well as my previous Octy vRs mk2 petrol.

The natural expectation would be that a Fabia with the same badge, being a smaller and lighter vehicle,would handle better but the reverse is the case.

IMO the upgrade Eibach springs should have been standard...penny pinching by Skoda.I agree it's not about lowering per se.

The standard shocks are Okish with the springs but an upgrade to these would be better,more control AND more comfort IMO.

Although the best way could well be leave the springs as they are and upgrade roll bars and shocks all round.

Having said all that it's a great value package and I will be keeping mine unless I get a lot of problems with it ,but it's trouble free so far.

It looks like the Octy in vRS guise has a tradition of having an upgraded suspension compared to standard editions or do they share exactly the same platform?

Same platform/chassis but different suspension and brakes etc. vRS TDI and TFSI are identical bar engine

It looks like the Octy in vRS guise has a tradition of having an upgraded suspension compared to standard editions or do they share exactly the same platform?

An Octy vRS has stiffer suspension than other Octy models,but I haven't personally driven any other versions.

Also the diesel versions will have extra weight at the front so that will affect matters,but not in a good way I suppose.

From my test drive in Octy III 1.6 TDi and rather disappointing understeer (if one was expecting a good handling from a taxi )more weight at the front could be an advantage.