Wilwood Midilite 4 pot Front brake conversion

I'm wanting to kick off the manufacture of the Wilwood caliper carriers as per Fruitbats design, just wanted to check all my details 1st as i haven't ordered the calipers yet. 

I'll use

Calipers

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wilwood-Forged-Midilite-4-Pot-Caliper-Radial-Mount-/230640509020

Carriers -as designed by Fruitbat

Q for Fruitbat...

My mechanical design friend pointed out a missing dimension from the middle piece of the carrier, he said he could scale to estimate, but if you have that dimension or dxf/dwg or Step/Iges file it would be appreciated.

Oh and what material and finish did you plump for? Mild steel and powdercoat?

Discs

256mm Vented Discs of a Hyundai Getz (ABS model)

Pads

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wilwood-Midilite-Caliper-Brake-Pads-MidRange-Smart-Race-/120658324224

Will build up my kit over time as i get various other bits for the car. But want to get the carriers done while i have the enthusiasm of workmates!

Input appreciated

Your quite right there is a dimension missing from that drawing, it's probably not critical though, however personally I would rather see a bracket that follows the contour of the caliper more closely and I'd also like to see filleted and chamfered edges. Square edges and hard corners are more prone to fracturing with prolonged heating and cooling cycles.

I would go for aluminium alloy, he30 (6082) with a t651 temper and use steel thread inserts rather than tapping direct into the aluminium

I'd be interested to see what other peoples opinions are on this too.

Oh yer one more thing...well two...

1. you can get those calipers with more than one different size of piston, you need to do a bit of number crunching with a calculator to work out the best size to suit your master cylinder..

2. brake hoses/fittings, those wilwod calipers originate in the USA, they have a daft American imperial pipe thread on the fluid unions, it's some sort of 1/4" tapered npt thread if I recall, I found the best way was to buy an npt to metric, male to male adaptor, then use a female to female metric brake hose that came from an alfa Romeo, or you could just get a couple of custom hoses made up

Thanks for the excellent feedback tom, exactly what i was after.

Caliper piston size

I noticed the sizing table, would you recommend suiting the calipers to the existing master or going max caliper piston size and switching the master out to cope? As i'm writing this i'm thinking the former - best get the calculator out

Hoses

I'd assumed i would get custom brake hoses to suit, plus probably a couple spare.

Though was interested to hear Fruitbats solution, if he reads this.

Thanks for the fitting conversion tip though.

Carrier material

My mech design and toolmaker consults were both keen on tweaks to the design and looking at different materials.

Might have a look with them on Monday, while they're still interested.

Ordered Gaz coilovers on Wednesday, so i've got the ball rolling with this car, i'll try and get some pics up when i get some taken.

Crikey gaz coilovers. You cant be short of a few quid...

why change the master cylinder?? It's unnecessary, the oem cylinder is more than capable of stopping the car, it's not like you have 200bhp either is it?

Crikey gaz coilovers. You cant be short of a few quid...

why change the master cylinder?? It's unnecessary, the oem cylinder is more than capable of stopping the car, it's not like you have 200bhp either is it?

Not yet....

My plan is to prepare this car to a point that it is capable of accepting a new engine.

Ordered Gaz mk1 focus fronts and mk2 golf rear coilovers, was impressed with their service as once they knew what i was doing with the units they took the felicias details and are going to build springs to suit it's weight, not the focus/golf

Hope they can make a kit to buy up I just did the rear breaks to disk on my felicia they work better than the fronts at the min

I run with bog standard single piston sliding calipers from a mondeo v6 on 280mm discs on my 20v car, and the standard master cylinder, I haven't tried them to destruction yet but they do grip pretty hard, the only downside is having to run some enormous wheels of 15" to let them fit.. In my opinion a properly set up 256mm disc and caliper combination is the most you will ever need in a felicia, and then you get the opportunity to use 14" wheels which is win win all round in terms of handling ability.

Hope they can make a kit to buy up I just did the rear breaks to disk on my felicia they work better than the fronts at the min

If they haven't made an off the shelf kit for the Felicia by now i wouldn't hold your breath for one pal

Once i have the bits for my fronts i'll start accumulating components for the rears. How to guides on here are great, a lot of good information.

I run with bog standard single piston sliding calipers from a mondeo v6 on 280mm discs on my 20v car, and the standard master cylinder, I haven't tried them to destruction yet but they do grip pretty hard, the only downside is having to run some enormous wheels of 15" to let them fit.. In my opinion a properly set up 256mm disc and caliper combination is the most you will ever need in a felicia, and then you get the opportunity to use 14" wheels which is win win all round in terms of handling ability.

Is your 1.8T on the road Tom?

What power are you running? How does it feel?

No not as such, it's in the body shop at the moment, going for mot next thursday, but I have driven it a bit, it's savage.. No idea how much power, but it should be around 200 bhp, it would frighten the live out of you.

No not as such, it's in the body shop at the moment, going for mot next thursday, but I have driven it a bit, it's savage.. No idea how much power, but it should be around 200 bhp, it would frighten the live out of you.

sounds really good Tom (sorry for the hijack).

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

No not as such, it's in the body shop at the moment, going for mot next thursday, but I have driven it a bit, it's savage.. No idea how much power, but it should be around 200 bhp, it would frighten the live out of you.

Probably would pal.

I'm used to quick cars, but my r32 last year and i'm now recalibrated to slow mode

At the moment my monte carlo feels fast when i drive it :(

Ah, yes. There are a couple of missing dimensions now I check. I'm away from home for a few days, but I'll dig them out when I get back. I might still have the emachineshop file somewhere, but at worst I can put the verniers on the calipers.

I made up the hoses using braided pipe and fittings I bought from Rally Design (from whom I also bought the calipers). They sell all the parts you need, and the fittings are very easy to make up - no special tools needed. They sell fittings in the odd NPT size that the calipers need, as well as the metric ends to go on the steel pipes on the car, so I made them up in one piece. The fittings are reusable (if you replace the olive) so handy on a rally car - I knocked one of the pipes off on the first gravel event I did with them, but it was no bother to repair.

I tried a couple of piston sizes - to start with I used the biggest (44mm?) but I've since gone back to 38mm. I upgraded the master cylinder to an Audi one (23.8mm from memory) because I like a firm pedal. I've tried a number of different types of pad - the Hawk ones that Rally Design sell were OK but very noisy. I then tried Mintex M1166 and M1155s, and have settled on the softer M1155's. It took a while to get the brakes working well, compounded by a leaky servo one way valve, but they seem pretty good to me now. To be honest, they are probably a bit much for the car in its current 116bhp form, but maybe the new engine will stretch them a little more. I've not done an event on tarmac since I fixed the servo valve - events on gravel don't really tax the brakes very much.

I take Tom's point about the design of the brackets, but really they are so substantial that I don't think it will pose any problems. (Touch wood of course, now I've said that). I chose that design to minimise complexity in machining, because I was planning on doing them myself, but in the end I had a local engineers knock them up for me. They're made of mild steel, and just primed and painted with rattle cans.

Cheers

James

Ah, yes. There are a couple of missing dimensions now I check. I'm away from home for a few days, but I'll dig them out when I get back. I might still have the emachineshop file somewhere, but at worst I can put the verniers on the calipers.

I made up the hoses using braided pipe and fittings I bought from Rally Design (from whom I also bought the calipers). They sell all the parts you need, and the fittings are very easy to make up - no special tools needed. They sell fittings in the odd NPT size that the calipers need, as well as the metric ends to go on the steel pipes on the car, so I made them up in one piece. The fittings are reusable (if you replace the olive) so handy on a rally car - I knocked one of the pipes off on the first gravel event I did with them, but it was no bother to repair.

I tried a couple of piston sizes - to start with I used the biggest (44mm?) but I've since gone back to 38mm. I upgraded the master cylinder to an Audi one (23.8mm from memory) because I like a firm pedal. I've tried a number of different types of pad - the Hawk ones that Rally Design sell were OK but very noisy. I then tried Mintex M1166 and M1155s, and have settled on the softer M1155's. It took a while to get the brakes working well, compounded by a leaky servo one way valve, but they seem pretty good to me now. To be honest, they are probably a bit much for the car in its current 116bhp form, but maybe the new engine will stretch them a little more. I've not done an event on tarmac since I fixed the servo valve - events on gravel don't really tax the brakes very much.

I take Tom's point about the design of the brackets, but really they are so substantial that I don't think it will pose any problems. (Touch wood of course, now I've said that). I chose that design to minimise complexity in machining, because I was planning on doing them myself, but in the end I had a local engineers knock them up for me. They're made of mild steel, and just primed and painted with rattle cans.

Cheers

James

Thanks for the response.

I understand the reasoning behind the simplistic design and was thinking along the lines of "it aint broke" myself

It certainly sounds like they're well upto the task from your application.

If you could send me the file / dims that would be great, not the end of the world if not though.

I'll check out Rally Design when i come to order the rest of he kit, sounds like i'll get everything in one order

Thanks again

Stu

Edited 18 May, 201313 yr by ClarkE_123

Sanity check - please

Calculating piston sizes - source used http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/pdf/designing_4_pot_brakes.pdf

From above link

Equation 3.142 x r x r x no. pistons

Bearing in mind single pot slider calipers calculated as two pot, as stated

Felicia 1.3 caliper piston size = 54mm (?? - I'd like confirmation as this was a google result :p )

Calc for total piston area (standard)

3.142 x 27 x 27 x 2 = 4581mmsq

So would i be looking at Wilwood piston dia 38mm = with Total piston area from table of 4537mmsq

Given Getz disc width is 19mm my best option in calipers with disc width 21.1mm.

Conclusion

One pair of the following required.....

1.50" 38.1mm       .83" 21.1mm       Z-120-7471 

Feedback appreciated

Edit: just noticed that these are the same size fruitbat is using, hopefully that means my calc was somewhere near

Edited 27 May, 201313 yr by ClarkE_123

Yes seems legit to me.

Cheers

In my opinion a properly set up 256mm disc and caliper combination is the most you will ever need in a felicia, and then you get the opportunity to use 14" wheels which is win win all round in terms of handling ability.

Nice if you want to keep it looking factory too

Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk

Yes 14" wheels with 256mm brakes is by far the best setup for braking performance and handling ability.

After reading all this with my road rally felly in mind Iv decided to stick to the original plan of mondeo calipers and (am I correct in thinking kia rio 3) disc's.

Can anyone advise the flexi brake line fitting at the hard line side...

M10x1.0 (fine), but is it male/female, convex/concave?

I'd like to get new lines made up for the Wilwoods and get them fitted over the winter

Yes the hard line is a standard m10 fine fitting convex, so the flexi hose needs to be concave, don't forget the wilwood calipers have an npt imperial American pipe thread fitting at the calipers, I found that the best way to do it was buy a male to male thread adaptor for the calipers, then used an off the shelf female to female metric hose from an Alfa Romeo.

Excellent thanks Tom

If i'm not pushing my luck here, are the Alfa's the same length as the Felicia ones?

They were slightly longer if I recall, I can't remember which model it came from though, i found them by looking through a brake hose application catalog that my local motor factors let me borrow.