DSG Fabia 7 speed. DSG Octavia 6 speed boxes are completely different 6 speed good 7 speed iffy.

 

That's pretty funny, many claim the complete opposite.  Jabo was claiming a while back that no 7 speed DSG's had ever had a problem (outside china).  The evidence on this forum (not this thread) disagrees.

 

 

Strange this macho thing about manual boxes that we Europeans seem to have.

 

Having driven my first auto box on holiday in the US in 1988, it just seems a no brainer - what's the point of having all that extra work changing gears manually and having to hold the car on hills with the handbrake at traffic lights, there are better things to do with your time I think.

 

My last 4 cars have been auto, this is my first DSG and I'm very impressed with fuel economy. My petrol Ford Galaxy managed 22 mpg average, my petrol Vauxhall Zafira managed 30 mpg, but my diesel 1.6 Octavia 2 estate is getting over 55 mpg - that's a huge saving in fuel for me of about £125 a month.

 

The only thing I notice that's slightly different to my previous ordinary autos is that it's very slightly hesitant when I set off from stopped - soon get used to it. 

 

When you are driving, what better thing can you do with your time than drive the car?

Shave, email, eat, read or something else?

 

Coming from older conventional autos (3 and 4 speeds) if you could stand those at all then you should love DSG.  But against 6-8sp modern autos it has some disadvantages which may or may not be a problem depending on your usage.

BTW, the major fuel economy saving between your ford, vauxhall and octavia is due to the tdi engine.  Not the gearbox.  

Edited 14 July, 201312 yr by Kiwibacon

Yes I understand my saving is with the diesel engine, but the diesel versions of my last 2 cars would be lucky to get over 40 mpg, so it's modern cars that are more efficient as well.

 

I like to think when I'm driving, concentrate on the road and not have to think about something as mundane as when to change gear!

I like to think when I'm driving, concentrate on the road and not have to think about something as mundane as when to change gear!

 

I personally think that driving a manual car makes me a better driver. Having to change gears manually makes me concentrate more on the road and my surroundings. When I'm in my own car wafting along with my left foot tucked away at the back of the footwell, I have to put in more effort to stay alert.

 

As for the actual changing of the gears, I don't think the actual job of moving the physical cogs back and forth takes anything away from anything else. It's just muscle memory. 

 

That said, I'm lazy and like when I have mechanics and electronics doing my work for me. That is why I'm on my fourth automatic car now, and there will be a fifth after I'm done with my Octavia. And a sixth, and a seventh. And so on. I see no logical reason to ever own a car with more than two pedals again. 

Yes I understand my saving is with the diesel engine, but the diesel versions of my last 2 cars would be lucky to get over 40 mpg, so it's modern cars that are more efficient as well.

 

I like to think when I'm driving, concentrate on the road and not have to think about something as mundane as when to change gear!

 

Until recently conventional autos were pox.  They didn't have enough gears and relied on the torque converter to span the gap.  The torque converter when unlocked (which was all the time except at motorway speeds) is very inefficient and wastes a lot of fuel.

It's only in the last 5 years or so that conventional auto boxes have enough gears (6+) that they can run the lockup more often to get rid of the slush feeling and provide adequate fuel economy.

 

When a conventional auto hits 8 gears, they can be locked up almost all the time which provides the same mechanical efficiency as a DSG (but still worse than a manual box).  They can also use the torque converter for creeping and slurring gear changes as much or as little as required.  

Conventional autos finally have some potential.  The advantages of DSG over the older auto boxes no longer exists.

A conventional planetary gearbox auto will never be able to shift as sharply as a DSG. You'll always have that mushy gear change on a conventional auto simply because of the time it takes for the brake bands and clutches to stop and start the various gears.

 

Although the torque converter lockup improves efficiency, it still is not an ideal solution as you are still spinning a torque converter full of oil. With the 7 speed DSG on some applications the CO emissions and combined MPG are actually better than the manual option. I think torque converter autos are a long way from achieving this.   

A conventional planetary gearbox auto will never be able to shift as sharply as a DSG. You'll always have that mushy gear change on a conventional auto simply because of the time it takes for the brake bands and clutches to stop and start the various gears.

 

There's no difference in shifting speed.  A conventional auto shifts in the time it takes to actuate a clutch pack.  Same as DSG.  They haven't used brake bands in how long?

The difference with the auto boxes is, they can hit any ratio with exactly the same speed.  DSG has to select and deselect gears in between.  First shift will be the same, but the autos sidestep the problem of the DSG pre-selecting the wrong gear (roundabouts anyone?)  or having to wait for the mechatronics to pick the next ratio before the clutch packs can engage and disengage.

 

 

Although the torque converter lockup improves efficiency, it still is not an ideal solution as you are still spinning a torque converter full of oil. With the 7 speed DSG on some applications the CO emissions and combined MPG are actually better than the manual option. I think torque converter autos are a long way from achieving this.   

 

Spinning a locked torque converter full of oil is exactly the same as spinning a dual mass flywheel.  No significant losses once you're above shaky idle.

 

The 7sp dsg is winning in the urban cycle because it's been programmed to do exactly that.  Each shift point has been targetted at getting the lowest CO2 figure in that test.  Where if you put a manual through the same test, your shift points are prescribed.  It's just another loophole being exploited and widening the gap between real world results and official test figures.

 

The 6,7, 8 and 9sp conventional autos are already acheiving this.

Edited 16 July, 201312 yr by Kiwibacon

I really like my DSG but if I replace my Blackline with a MK3 vRS at any point in the future it will almost certainly be a TSi manual.

Something I can no longer abide of DSG gearboxes on Skodas (and i guess the Mk7 Golf is no different) is the fuel consumption and emmissions increases they bring about, as good as they are I dont think I want to spend 1100 quid again to end up with a car thats less efficient and costs more to tax.

V good gearbox though, frustrating at times when it seems to have a bit of a mind of its own (noticed that even in manual mode under hard acceleration when traction is an issue it will upshift without being told to.....the shifting into 1st gear when rolling in M also does my nut in) and it wont appeal to everyone, especially someone whose been fortunate enough to own a very expensive car with a ZF 8 speed auto as in truth that is probably an even better box.

The days of auto boxes hugely sapping engine power, making them slower, more dirty and inefficient are disappearing.....makes me wonder when such technology becomes more affordable to produce and source whether VAG will eventually drop DSG altogether.

Edited 16 July, 201312 yr by pipsyp

There's no difference in shifting speed.  A conventional auto shifts in the time it takes to actuate a clutch pack.  Same as DSG.  They haven't used brake bands in how long?

The difference with the auto boxes is, they can hit any ratio with exactly the same speed.  DSG has to select and deselect gears in between.  First shift will be the same, but the autos sidestep the problem of the DSG pre-selecting the wrong gear (roundabouts anyone?)  or having to wait for the mechatronics to pick the next ratio before the clutch packs can engage and disengage.

 

 

The average conventional automatic transmission shifts in 100 ms. Pretty quick, but a DSG up shifts in 8 ms. No contest under acceleration (where it matters). As for the whole pre-selecting the wrong gear situation......I've heard about it but I have never suffered this in my DSG. But it's true that a conventional auto won't suffer this as there is no pre-selection of gears.

 

 

Spinning a locked torque converter full of oil is exactly the same as spinning a dual mass flywheel.  No significant losses once you're above shaky idle.

 

It's not quite. When spinning a torque converter full of oil, there are extra losses from turbulence effects in the oil, and also parasitic drag inside the torque converter.      

Try them out, pick the one you like the best?

I really like my DSG but if I replace my Blackline with a MK3 vRS at any point in the future it will almost certainly be a TSi manual.

Something I can no longer abide of DSG gearboxes on Skodas (and i guess the Mk7 Golf is no different) is the fuel consumption and emmissions increases they bring about, as good as they are I dont think I want to spend 1100 quid again to end up with a car thats less efficient and costs more to tax.

V good gearbox though, frustrating at times when it seems to have a bit of a mind of its own (noticed that even in manual mode under hard acceleration when traction is an issue it will upshift without being told to.....the shifting into 1st gear when rolling in M also does my nut in) and it wont appeal to everyone, especially someone whose been fortunate enough to own a very expensive car with a ZF 8 speed auto as in truth that is probably an even better box.

 

I think I feel about the same...........I love my DSG, but I am likely to get a manual gearbox next (depending on what car I choose).

 

I do love it, but at times I am finding it a bit awkward in kickdown (takes too long to pick the right gear), and to be honest I don't use the paddles enough to warrant that part of the DSG's brilliance; a standard auto would be better for my style of driving I think, or a manual where I retain full control at all times.

 

Plus the manual, as you say, will be cheaper to buy and cheaper to run (mpg and tax).

 

I've just extended my warranty by two years though, so it'll be a while!

The average conventional automatic transmission shifts in 100 ms. Pretty quick, but a DSG up shifts in 8 ms. No contest under acceleration (where it matters). As for the whole pre-selecting the wrong gear situation......I've heard about it but I have never suffered this in my DSG. But it's true that a conventional auto won't suffer this as there is no pre-selection of gears.

 

 

 

It's not quite. When spinning a torque converter full of oil, there are extra losses from turbulence effects in the oil, and also parasitic drag inside the torque converter.      

 

You must have a serious morning commute if 0.92s of shift time is a problem.  I hit the 2 second DSG shuffle several times on my first drive in one.  I haven't driven a vehicle before or since which was as bad to drive around a roundabout.  It appears the pattern of accelerate, coast, accelerate fools it completely.

 

Have you quantified the oil friction losses inside a locked torque converter?

You must have a serious morning commute if 0.92s of shift time is a problem.  

 

You better believe it 

 

 

You must have a serious morning commute if 0.92s of shift time is a problem.  I hit the 2 second DSG shuffle several times on my first drive in one.  I haven't driven a vehicle before or since which was as bad to drive around a roundabout.  It appears the pattern of accelerate, coast, accelerate fools it completely.

 

The accel, coast, accel never seems to fool my DSG. What sort of DSG did you have? 

You better believe it 

 

 

 

The accel, coast, accel never seems to fool my DSG. What sort of DSG did you have? 

 

Oops, should have been 0.092 seconds.

 

That was the 6sp in a CR140 superb.

I read all over about this whole roundabout situation and DSGs. Had ours since February now and never ever noticed any problem.

 

Either I drive differently or there are faults with the ones people are complaining about.

 

My usual approach to a roundabout is to get off the gas ASAP then either brake and come to a stop or then back on the gas and carry on.

 

I think even it has preselected a gear but then needs a different one the changes are still quick so there is no real noticeable pause etc.

 

Phil

I have experienced the Accelerate - Coast - Accelerate issue a couple of times but I have been heavy handed (or footed) to experience this and only when the car was warming up. I did have issue with a sluggish feeling gearbox but I found this went away when I pulled the battery when I was upgrading the stereo. After connecting the battery and taking the car for a run, I found the DSG to be much better. The dealer said that it learns your drving style and maybe this was my issue. I had been careful running it in so when I tried to push it a bit, it didn't know how to respond.

I have experienced the Accelerate - Coast - Accelerate issue a couple of times but I have been heavy handed (or footed) to experience this and only when the car was warming up. I did have issue with a sluggish feeling gearbox but I found this went away when I pulled the battery when I was upgrading the stereo. After connecting the battery and taking the car for a run, I found the DSG to be much better. The dealer said that it learns your drving style and maybe this was my issue. I had been careful running it in so when I tried to push it a bit, it didn't know how to respond.

 

It's not just a learning thing.  Anytime the box needs to miss a gear it's going to have issues.

For example from 4th to 2nd.  Fast shifts can only happen between ranges (like 4-3), it then has to drop 4 and reselect 2 before it can apply power in 2nd and continue.

 

I'm pretty sure this is what was happening to me.

Approach roundabout, it's in 4th and has 3rd pre-selected.

Find gap, apply throttle and it needs second.

Almost 2 seconds of confused DSG before it finds second and can apply power.