I have a problem that has been getting worse since I've had the car (3 years).

It's a PD140 (2007) with 130k on the clock.

On cold starting there is usually a random chugging/knocking coming from the engine bay. It goes away when the engine has warmed up!

It seems to be coming from the right hand side of the engine near the battery, possibly from Bosch part 036 145 209 C.

Car drives fine, no signs of DMF failure, although cam belt and water pump are almost due changing as the were last done c.80k.

I tried to get a video, but typically it didn't make much noise that time, so I'll try again.

Anyone got any thoughts as my Googling comes up with nothing other than its part of the CR engine?

That is the vacuum pump by the looks of it. Could be that yours is on the way out if it is noisy.

 

Easy to confirm as there will be a vacuum line from that to the controlling block up by the scuttle cover (can't miss it as it has, from memory of my BKD A3 about six vacuum line connected to it). 

 

You need to get a stethoscope or the old trick of using a long screwdriver to see if that is definitely where it is coming from.

 

Might be time to change it.

Diesel knock on cold engines is "usually" related to poor combustion issues.

Broken/failed glow plug?

Worn injector?

Worn piston?

Worn tappet/s

There are other things to look for:

like excessive smoke and what colour?

Best bet is;

Google diesel engine knock on cold start, there should be plenty on there under that or a similar heading.

It is not specific to your engine it is a common diesel fault.

Regards

It seems to be coming from the right hand side of the engine near the battery, possibly from Bosch part 036 145 209 C.

image.jpg

 

 

That's the tandem pump, a combined vacuum pump and fuel pump in one. Only PD engines have them.

 

It may be that which is making a knocking noise, but I would have expected you would have some quite severe starting and running problems if the tandem pump was failing to that extent.

Thanks everyone.

I've got no signs of any issues except the noise on cold start and possibly a drop in fuel economy, but not massive, over the past three months.

I'll look into it more.

Diesel knock on cold engines is "usually" related to poor combustion issues.

Broken/failed glow plug?

Worn injector?

Worn piston?

Worn tappet/s

There are other things to look for:

like excessive smoke and what colour?

 

Thanks. Some of those are starting to sound rather expensive (worn pistons / tappets)...

 

I've not noticed any excessive smoke except when accellerating hard and then there is more than previously and it appears to be a puff of grey / brown colour smoke.

 

I'd expect some smoke on a diesel of this age, especially when pushed hard suddenly, so I don't think it is anything more than a little excessive (personally).

 

Any one got any other thoughts?

 

I have a video of the engine with the noise, but cannot upload it as the iPhone file is too large. I'll work on getting it up at some point and that might help.

Do you mean knock as the engine hits something when starting ?

Mine sometimes does this on cold start. It's just like it bumps something eg mounting etc.

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk.

No its not a 'banging' more a 'rubbing'.

 

Once the engine is running its sounds like something it catching on something and causing an unnatural noise from the right hand side of the engine near the battery. It's either in the part photographed above or something connected / associated with it but inside the engine.

 

It's a noise that I have noticed getting worse over the past 12-18 months to the point where I need to get it checked out before something breaks. I'm trying to decide where to take it at the moment - possibly Auditechnik in Gloucester as they have a great deal on Cambelt & Water pump (£299) at the moment and I might as well get that done at the same time if they are going to be stripping parts of the engine out (I know the cambelt is the other side of the engine, before anyone points that out).

 

I have absolutely no problems with starting the engine.

 

I did notice the other day that it did this when the engine was almost warmed up.

could be an injector

try using  those liquids than you add when filling up.

My other car also started to this but not all the time, when to the garage ( bosch car service) as the gave me one of those bottles to use on fill up

the one Iám using right now is for 2 fill ups but not one after the other.

can´t tell you the results as just been filled up a couple days ago, the car has 185k

Thanks for the suggestion but I use that sort of stuff 'yearly' as a matter of course. So either it doesn't work or its not the injectors...

So, I'm sat in an Audi (VAG) specialist and he looked / listened to my video & declared DMF failure....

Apparently the 'chattering' is indicative of early failure.

But I have no issues pulling away or being in the wrong gear.

What do you guys think?

I wasn't expecting this and its going to be expensive I think.

If you blip the throttle, does the noise change?

If you slowly push the clutch pedal to the floor and let it come up again, does it affect the noise?

I'll check that out when I get the car back.

Although I'll need to wait for the engine to go cold first as it's more likely to do it then!

The mechanic is quite sure it's DMF on the way out, but not desperate yet so is not doing it today.

My 2006 2.0TDI PD DSG does exactly what you describe. When cold there is a chatter/slight rattle from the flywheel end of the engine. It is almost certainly the DMF.

 

It has been doing it for at least the last 30,000 miles and is only very gradually getting worse. It usually completely disappears when the engine is hot. There are no other symptoms, ie juddering/knocking under acceleration etc.  

 

The noise also stops when I put it into Drive or Reverse......I guess as the flywheel is then under load and can't rattle about. Try putting your car in gear with the engine running and letting the clutch out to biting point.......if the noise changes or stops then be highly suspicious of the flywheel. 

 

I don't worry about it much. The very worst that could happen is the flywheel could break apart and fly out through the bell housing causing lots of damage!.........but you don't hear of this happening much. Generally they just get noisier and start juddering/Knocking to the point where you can't stand it and get it replaced. 

Edited 13 September, 201312 yr by booke23

Thanks. I'll try that tomorrow as the engine will be cold then.

The mechanics were pretty sure it was the DMF, but couldn't be 100% without taking the gearbox out!!! Is that really the only way to be certain?

They don't seem to be concerned about it and advised that the cambelt (which is approaching 4 years old) would be a higher priority.

The noise I have has been getting worse over the past 30k or so as well.

Checking back over the service record the clutch and release bearings were replaced in March 2009: no mention of DMF so don't know if this was done as well.

My question knowing this is should I have the clutch replaced as well as the DMF assuming I'll not be doing this until approx. March next year at the earliest?

They quoted me just over £1k for the DMF & clutch replacement which seemed a bit high (but cheaper than the dealer). If I only have to do the DMF, that could bring the cost down quite a but, but is a clutch 4 years old nearing the end if its life?

I had the same on my vec..... Chattering on a cold start. Found out it was the common rail system not getting enough voltage.........but thats just my pennies worth...

Thanks. I'll try that tomorrow as the engine will be cold then.

The mechanics were pretty sure it was the DMF, but couldn't be 100% without taking the gearbox out!!! Is that really the only way to be certain?

They don't seem to be concerned about it and advised that the cambelt (which is approaching 4 years old) would be a higher priority.

nearing the end if its life?

 

You can take the starter motor off and check the play in the starter ring (outer part of the flywheel) with a big screwdriver. Any more than 15-20mm of movement indicates an excessively worn DMF.  I'd agree that the cambelt should be higher priority.

 

 

My question knowing this is should I have the clutch replaced as well as the DMF assuming I'll not be doing this until approx. March next year at the earliest?

They quoted me just over £1k for the DMF & clutch replacement which seemed a bit high (but cheaper than the dealer). If I only have to do the DMF, that could bring the cost down quite a but, but is a clutch 4 years old nearing the end if its life?

 

I would say you might as well replace the clutch. It shouldn't add anything to the labour charge, and will only add £150 or so in parts. 

 

£1000 seems a little expensive......£150 for the clutch + around £250 for the flywheel is £400 - £450 in parts. Not sure how long the job takes......a mechanic I use charges 6 hrs labour for it, which would be £300 at his rates. So £750 would be a good price for the job.  

They quoted me £248 for the clutch kit inc slave cylinder & £405 for the DMF (down from £291 & £528).

The rest is labour (4.5 hours to fit both) and VAT taking it to c.£1050.

I emailed around a few other places this afternoon as I was envisaging it being about £700 all in.

£248 for the clutch including slave cylinder is about right. £405 for the DMF sounds very expensive......ECP have the sachs flywheel for £258 and the LUK for £287.....that's before using the briskoda discount code.   

I know its a bit out of your way but there is a good mechanic I used on my last couple of cars who maybe able to do it cheaper....let me know and I will send you his details....

Dealer: over £1500 (LUK = more)

VW Indi: over £1100 (either type = same price)

Audi Indi: over £1000 (either type = same price)

Have a 'backstreet' VW Indi to contact, but then I'm onto the small, local non-VAG garages which, without recomendation, I'm reluctant to choose for such a significant job.

Shark charged me £550ish for the whole cabodle last month.  Sachs parts.

Shark charged me £550ish for the whole cabodle last month. Sachs parts.

That's worth the drive from Hereford to Mansfield, that is...

Go for it.  You know you want to.  They do other stuff too.