Now you tell me

Imperial College, down Exhibition Road, no where near a McDonalds for brecky :(

Forget MaccyD's, head round to The Sandwich Shop in Gloucester Rd (10 mins from Imp College) and get yourself a nice baguet or 2. Failing that, Ponti's on Victoria St is a very welcoming and friendly place..especially at 6.10 am (if you make it I will buy you a coffee )

Forget MaccyD's, head round to The Sandwich Shop in Gloucester Rd (10 mins from Imp College) and get yourself a nice baguet or 2. Failing that, Ponti's on Victoria St is a very welcoming and friendly place..especially at 6.10 am (if you make it I will buy you a coffee )

New livery Andy, South Africa............multicolour.................last year they took 40 cabbie's on safari for free :eek: ...here's hope'in

Steve

New livery Andy' date=' South Africa............multicolour.................last year they took 40 cabbie's on safari for free :eek: ...here's hope'in

Steve[/quote']

Yep, I've been looking m8..dont worry I will increase my lead

"The congestion charge is good" What!!!!

I take it you're having a laugh, Seriously you are aren't you? The congestion charge is good? Everyone i know in the deep south hates it. It is the commuter having to pay the price for under developed transport infrastructure. The only reason for it's existance is that the road system in London, like most of the urban areas in the UK is total w@$k, imagine, a city of about 8 million people, millions more commute in, then one of the main routes (M4), which also happens to have a 60,000,000 passenger a year airport on it narrows to 2 lanes on it's way into town? Is this a capital city or some country town?

The tube had about 50p spent on it for about 20 years, the railways are an (expensive) farce, and then you get lumbered with a 'congestion charge' for driving in? What's good about that, it's just a big joke, or at least it is to the rest of world. :confused:

I find the CC a pain yes, but it works around Mayfair for me. I am now able to find meters easily to park on because they arent all taken up by cars dropped for a day.

Incidently, it is now no longer an offence to FEED A METER (at least in the CC zone for sure.

Incidently' date=' it is now no longer an offence to FEED A METER (at least in the CC zone for sure.[/quote']

It's just F*cking expensive.

To put the CC in laymans terms....................instead of being 8th at the traffic lights your now 7th............... .

Seeing as i dont have to pay it i couldn't care less {except for nurses etc}

but the biggest change i have noticed IS the Bus lanes, now they have camera's on buses etc people keep out of them, helps me no end.

London is just the start...............it will end up being

"The congestion charge is good" What!!!!

I take it you're having a laugh' date=' Seriously you are aren't you? The congestion charge is good? Everyone i know in the deep south hates it. It is the commuter having to pay the price for under developed transport infrastructure. The only reason for it's existance is that the road system in London, like most of the urban areas in the UK is total w@$k, imagine, a city of about 8 million people, millions more commute in, then one of the main routes (M4), which also happens to have a 60,000,000 passenger a year airport on it narrows to 2 lanes on it's way into town? Is this a capital city or some country town?

The tube had about 50p spent on it for about 20 years, the railways are an (expensive) farce, and then you get lumbered with a 'congestion charge' for driving in? What's good about that, it's just a big joke, or at least it is to the rest of world. :confused:[/quote']

OK widen the M4 then. Don't forget that would mean total M4 closure whilst the viaduct was removed and rebuilt. The cost of rebuilding, and purchasing all the land is expensive. (Surface Roads actually don't own the land they sit on). Purchase all the houses round about in the zone. Compensate all those who now have a viaduct close to them.

Very interesting read Colin. Ive been a London cabbie for 11 years and have found in that time traffic has slowed by approx 2mph, i average 10-11 mph on a normal 9-5 mon-fri, this has not changed since CC was brought in probably due to the increase in traffic lights , traffic calming and widening of pavements.

CC has made a difference but is it succesful ?, the traffic is still bad in areas such as Trafalgar sq and all roads leading to it, maybe that has something to do with pedestrianising the north side and adding traffic lights everywhere, obviously Noddy and Big Ears worked out the traffic light phasing, 5 seconds on green from the Mall to Trafalgar sq!.

And what about enforcement cameras? , people are now so worried of being caught in a box junctions that they will make illegal turns so as not to be fined?

I dont claim to have the answer............i just drive these roads day in day out, more lights, more cameras and a larger CC Zone will NOT help, what you price off the road will affect bussiness, which will come around and bit your a*se from another direction, just how many shops have failed since 17 Feb 2003 ?

Steve

what you price off the road will affect bussiness' date=' which will come around and bit your a*se from another direction, just how many shops have failed since 17 Feb 2003 ?

[/quote']

But will it? Did anybody *really* want to drive into London to visit a shop (at 2mph average speed) before the congestion charging, and if they were that determined the visit the shop, surely they'd now either pay the charge or take an alternative form of transport?

Which makes for an ideal opportunity for cabbies to make more money...

Rob.

But will it? Did anybody *really* want to drive into London to visit a shop (at 2mph average speed) before the congestion charging' date=' and if they were that determined the visit the shop, surely they'd now either pay the charge or take an alternative form of transport?

Which makes for an ideal opportunity for cabbies to make more money...

Rob.[/quote']

I wish mate , there are many small shops that have hit the **** pit, the Fishmongers in Paddington st for one, iirc it has been there for over 50 years, also big stores like Selfridges claim a 10% drop in takings.

Steve I'd agree with you. Traffic figures have dipped, but flow hasn't improved. To be honest I'm not sure exactly why this is but I'd supect traffic light phasing, moronic traffic calming, provision of cycling facilities cyclists hate and an attenpt to improve pedestrian facilities.

With regard to traffic lights, when we design them we use a program from the Transport Research Laboratory known as VOscady. It works on the lines of you giving it a whole load of info about the vehicles, traffic levels, what way they turn, lanes, permitted turns in each lane, road geometry, percentage OGV (PSV's and HGV's) and from this you can get the program to work out the signal times, capacity and play about for improvements. However the group of programs, Arcady (roundabouts), Picady (basic Junctions) and Transyt (complex stuff like traffic light roundabouts) can be easy to fool unfortunatly and rely on you being correct. One junction I analysed said the road is O.K but personally 5 minutes observation indicates not! I did a basic set of new lights 2 or so weeks ago and it relys on me being sent to count traffic at the AM and PM peaks, getting all the road geometries and traffic data. Not easy to get it all correct and often their is option for mistakes!

With regards to traffic lights, I suspect they have been set to capacity maximised setting in said program. This ensures the junction works out the signal times to allow the most traffic to flow through the junction. Unfotunatly it is not the best setting for the program, but I suspect most London Junctions are so overcapacity they feel the need to do it. I set most of mine to delay minimised, which ensures people on all roads spend the least amound of time sitting at traffic lights for no reason. I let the program work out the cycle time for all roads but limit it to 120 seconds to minimise fustration. My minimum time on Green is around 7-8 seconds, and my time between the light hitting red, and going green the other way is 5 seconds. I'm told this is high but I think it's fair considering the amber gamblers and time on red and yellow. The problem with most traffic lights is the pedestrian phase. It's a killer as no traffic is moving and queues build. There is nothing you can do and an average with road will be like this for 20-25 seconds a go. I suspect London with high pedestrian flows gets hit with this. You also as an output get a R.F.C rating (Rate of Flow to Capacity I believe). This shouldn't be more than 1, but should not be more than 0.750 as a sensible limit and basically tells you how much spare capacity for increased traffic you have in your junctions. I supect London has designed to minimise this value.

As for businesses it's a difficult one- however from experience decline in shops is often over-emphasised and actually can bring benifits. Most car users already go to out of town places anyway. Also traffic improvements may benifit other businesses improving their business, and we have to balance both halves which is damn near impossible. I however hate illegal parking on roads. It is a major congestion cause some say 50%... and can be dangerous too. It also reduces lanes on our roads. We need to be stricter, possibly camera enforcement of this.

Just today I was on a bus with a wheelchair user, and the stops here have high kerbs which are perfectly level with the bus so he can just drive off. However his particular stop had cars parked all over it and the bus driver could do nothing but drive to the next clear bit to let the poor guy off, some 500yrds away. The whole bus felt so sorry for that poor guy, just trying to get around but stopped nodoubt by some selfish git who could have parked further away and walked back. That made me feel awful. No doubt the car owner would have been raging if a traffic warden had given him a ticket too...

As for box junctions. A bit of common sence is needed. If your in a really long vehicle then it can be hard to get over as other smaller cars fill up your space! Camera enforcement is good as it stops abuse but as you say some people get fight, a bit of common sence from TfL is needed there!

Flying Scot,

Yes i would get rid of the viaduct whilst the road was being widened. The thing is though, it should have done like that in the first place, but like all half done transport projects in the UK it wasn't, possibly because for some reason road building in the UK takes 10 times longer to complete than anywhere else. I suggest in future all transport projects in the UK be run by foreigners as our 'experts' couldn't sort out out the traffic of a Lego town. Coming back to the UK after being abroad is like going back in time.

Congestion charging is not good, car drivers in the UK pay almost the highest fuel costs in the world, then add road tax, though hardly any is used for that and they are full of holes, plus the extra insurance we pay because so many have none. The railways (private companies) are subsidised but still charge a fortune, add the congestion charge, then the biggest joke of all is the M6 toll road. So for years a new road was needed, instead of using the revenue from motorists taxation a private company is asked to build it, and you have to pay for the privilige of using it, erm excuse me road tax is for that, we've already paid to use the roads.

I do agree though that the UK appears to have nobody capable of setting up a set of traffic lights. I have a road near me with 8 sets in 1 mile, are they synchronised? No, cue permanent 1.5 mile traffic jam, before the idiot scheme to put them all there last year the road ran smoothly. Why also are junctions in the UK always managed by traffic lights when foreign countries manage better by merging? Thanks UK traffic experts (sic).

Flying Scot' date='

Yes i would get rid of the viaduct whilst the road was being widened. The thing is though, it should have done like that in the first place, but like all half done transport projects in the UK it wasn't, possibly because for some reason road building in the UK takes 10 times longer to complete than anywhere else. I suggest in future all transport projects in the UK be run by foreigners as our 'experts' couldn't sort out out the traffic of a Lego town. Coming back to the UK after being abroad is like going back in time.

Congestion charging is not good, car drivers in the UK pay almost the highest fuel costs in the world, then add road tax, though hardly any is used for that and they are full of holes, plus the extra insurance we pay because so many have none. The railways (private companies) are subsidised but still charge a fortune, add the congestion charge, then the biggest joke of all is the M6 toll road. So for years a new road was needed, instead of using the revenue from motorists taxation a private company is asked to build it, and you have to pay for the privilige of using it, erm excuse me road tax is for that, we've already paid to use the roads.

I do agree though that the UK appears to have nobody capable of setting up a set of traffic lights. I have a road near me with 8 sets in 1 mile, are they synchronised? No, cue permanent 1.5 mile traffic jam, before the idiot scheme to put them all there last year the road ran smoothly. Why also are junctions in the UK always managed by traffic lights when foreign countries manage better by merging? Thanks UK traffic experts (sic). [/quote']

Of course they'd have built the viaduct wider but can you predict the future?Doubt it. Everything is built to a budget and has to be economic. London is a city where the road date from the 1500's your never going to be able to cope today!

Roadbuilding in the U.K does take longer than in some countries, and it is a good thing. We like to look at the need for the road, the economic benifits, and the social implications. Then when we do give it the go ahead we get hassle from enviromentalists, re public enquiries. It's a good thing however. Annoying but a good thing. France loves it's policy of build it then worry about it. Sounds good, but they'll never take a bad road away after it's built! Remember what the U.K will do if your home, business, or place of employment was in the way of a road!

Also perhaps traffic congestion in the U.K is to do with the fact that the europeans actually use the car less??? As for complaining on the M6 toll- excuse me? Most new europena highways are also tolled! Same in the USA too.

As for the highest fuel costs in the world yad a yad.... Fuel isx supply and demand and it gets me when people complain about the cost of it blaiming the oil companies. If I had a product in demand would I sell it cheaply. No way! As for fuel what other penalty would you put on driving in the interests of the enviroment? As for the hardly any of that used for holes, it's true we have underfunding issures all over the joint. Also we could just scrap the NHS and give you medical insurance at at least

Flying Scot, dear oh dear. The UK fuel price is high due to the 80% taxation, not the price from the oil companies.

The UK tax burden is one of the world's highest, so arguments of getting rid of the NHS are rather pointless, other European nations with a similiar or lower total taxation burden manage decent transport infrastructure and health care, our transport infrastructure is rubbish and i believe the NHS came 13th in European ratings last year despite it's staff working hard as hell.

I find French roads fine, much safer than bouncing over and dodging potholes on ours. Same with those in Germany, Norway,Sweden, Denmark......

As for bad roads, perhaps like the M6 toll that had to be closed almost as soon as it opened? or the new M60 section that flooded (2 feet deep) when much to everyone's surprise in rained in Manchester? Oh yes British road design is much better than in France

I don't know if the lights near me are speed sensitive, i do know that before some fool put them there the road had no jam, had it has a permanent one.

And no I'm not an 'arrogant' motorist (i feel insults by internet very petty), I'm fed up with the whole of the UK transport infrastructure, i just don't see why the motorist should subsidise the whole country and get virtually nothing in return.

It may not have occured to you, but cars journeys involving traffiic jams create more pollution than those that do not, and also are bad economically, so actually improving the roads may reduce pollution.

Finally, the reason Europeans use the car less is because they have a choice, in France the TGV is generally cheaper than long distance car travel, the same in Germany with the ICE trains.

By the way UK trains are not as clean as the Euroean ones, (strange as considering the cost to use them they should be the worlds best), and a recent environmental study of Train/Plane/Coach/Car, found the least polluting way for a family of 4 to travel from London to Edinburgh was by VW Passat TDi.

For someone alledgedly in transport management your views perfectly explain the mess we're in.

Flying Scot' date=' dear oh dear. The UK fuel price is high due to the 80% taxation, not the price from the oil companies.

The UK tax burden is one of the world's highest, so arguments of getting rid of the NHS are rather pointless, other European nations with a similiar or lower total taxation burden manage decent transport infrastructure and health care, our transport infrastructure is rubbish and i believe the NHS came 13th in European ratings last year despite it's staff working hard as hell.

I find French roads fine, much safer than bouncing over and dodging potholes on ours. Same with those in Germany, Norway,Sweden, Denmark......

As for bad roads, perhaps like the M6 toll that had to be closed almost as soon as it opened? or the new M60 section that flooded (2 feet deep) when much to everyone's surprise in rained in Manchester? Oh yes British road design is much better than in France

I don't know if the lights near me are speed sensitive, i do know that before some fool put them there the road had no jam, had it has a permanent one.

And no I'm not an 'arrogant' motorist (i feel insults by internet very petty), I'm fed up with the whole of the UK transport infrastructure, i just don't see why the motorist should subsidise the whole country and get virtually nothing in return.

It may not have occured to you, but cars journeys involving traffiic jams create more pollution than those that do not, and also are bad economically, so actually improving the roads may reduce pollution.

Finally, the reason Europeans use the car less is because they have a choice, in France the TGV is generally cheaper than long distance car travel, the same in Germany with the ICE trains.

By the way UK trains are not as clean as the Euroean ones, (strange as considering the cost to use them they should be the worlds best), and a recent environmental study of Train/Plane/Coach/Car, found the least polluting way for a family of 4 to travel from London to Edinburgh was by VW Passat TDi.

For someone alledgedly in transport management your views perfectly explain the mess we're in.[/quote']

I can't be bothered with this anymore since I don't do a good job. As far as I was aware I never insulted you, just gave the honest opinion but there we go.

I don't believe any mess was caused by proper transport planners but by council pen-pushers, accountants and govt. interefrance.

1. I said planning was better not building.

2. What has road repairs got to do with this? I don't control how councils spend money.

3. Unfotunatly we will always have traffic jams, any road widening is a quick fix and doesn't work. It's easy to sit back and say we need wider roads- what about everything on the side of the roads? Decimate it? How do you plan to fix London and all the bottle neck junctions?

4. As for traffic lights they always create additional queues sometimes it's needed for safety as we plan these things for 15 years in advance.

5.As for the transport infstructure thats the fault of the government not transport planners.

6. The report of the Passat sounds very flawed

7. The motorist gets a hell of a lot in return.

8. The fuel price isn't that high comparitivily.

Come and work in transport planning and you'll change your views once you see how bloody difficult it is to get anything done. We cannot do anything sub-standard as lawyers now clamp down on it.

The problem is your ideas whilst good, are short sighted and the money issue....

The car is a useful tool but the U.K is too dependent on it. Open your eyes and get out there. Try other methods, try cycling etc. It's all good.

Mods possible to lock this now befor it gets silly?

Flying Scot,

You presume too much, i do cycle, use buses, trains and walk. My point is that i disagree that the CC is a good thing. It is a reaction to bad transport planning. If the UK had the infrastructure it needed people wouldn't need to use ther cars as much, the reality is they do, and then effectively penalised for going to work. Many people have no choice, look at the price for a train season ticket and it's horrendous, then add the UK's mugging and sexual assault rates of women when using public transport. If other countries can provide cheap, safe and cost effective transit systems why can't we, and as we don't why should we be priced to death by schemes such as CC when they is no effective alternative? All stick, no carrot. Yes the UK is too car dependant, but that isn't Mr & MRs working persons fault is it?

then add the UK's mugging and sexual assault rates of women when using public transport.

However, much as you say that CC is not the answer to congestion, is putting people in cars really the answer to the above? Surely doing something about the muggings and sexual assaults (ie. tackling the root cause of the problem) would be a better solution?

And travelling at 2mph in a traffic jam, I really think chances of escaping a car jacker would be pretty slim...

I think to a certain extent you might be missing the point of congestion charging - it isn't just "another excuse to tax the already hard-done-to motorist" - it's there merely to make that journey into central London that bit more expensive that people think twice about whether they really have to take their car, or whether another means of transport would be cheaper. Therefore you only end up with those cars driving through the area which are "essential", or at least those who believe their usage of the car is necessary enough to warrant them paying