It would appear jaguar is stopping production of the defender! A sad day for the countryside.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-24446070

Edited 8 October, 201312 yr by mdon

Nooooooooooooooo my mate will be gutted,

 

Emmisions laws, a defender with stop/start that would be funny

There will always be a Defender. It's only the powerplant that will change, as with most manufacturers.

Farmers wont like plastic bits falling off on their fields

I am sure this is progress, just like grounding Concorde!  LandRover Defender is going to die one day as the USA and possibly even Europe will ban it because it is not pedestrian friendly.

 I mean, if you go to NCAP website, they do not even list data for a Defender as it kills people with the angular shapes.  I had two LandRovers in ears gone by and will miss it when it is gone.

 

 

I hope not as every loves the Defender as it is a classic icon of the motor world.

This has been on the cards for some years and 2015 was always the target date. I hope they bring out a special 4.0l V8 with auto box as the swan song. The fortieth anniverary model back in 98 was a classic then and even more so now. I missed the boat on that one so would love the opportunity to get on the bandwagon.

Fond memories of my Series 111, 90, 110 and then Defender (when it was renamed.)

The pleasure of no on road performance, noise, bad handling and water leaks from just about everywhere. Off road brilliant.

I loved them all.

There are concepts for a new one.

 

 

Not the worst thing I've ever seen but doesn't float my boat.

I can understand why they're dropping it.

There are concepts for a new one.

Not the worst thing I've ever seen but doesn't float my boat.

I can understand why they're dropping it.

It just looks like a two door yeti!

It's been known for ages that it's shortly to be replaced with a newer "utility" that can be sold in more markets.

The Defender has already lost most of it's key markets to jap vehicles that are more reliable, comfortable and cheaper.

Chances are, it'll become more of a lifestyle vehicle.

The DPFs have pretty much killed them off, just not practical for the type of use they normally get. Not exactly the motorway run vehicle usually.

I'll miss em, I like working on the new ones but they do carry a massive premium.

This is an absolute tragedy but unstandable. I have been recently driving a 1994 2.5TDi 130 ambulance for St John Ambulance and I can say it the most fun I`ve had driving in recent times without going fast.

 

It was the noise that got me the most and found driving it for 30 mins on the motorway at 70 quite tiring.

 

Still, the Defender will be on the English landscape forever just like the Morris Minor.

 

Its one of those vehicles where being short has a distinct advantage in the interior which is in reality arcaic.

 

 

It's been known for ages that it's shortly to be replaced with a newer "utility" that can be sold in more markets.

The Defender has already lost most of it's key markets to jap vehicles that are more reliable, comfortable and cheaper.

Chances are, it'll become more of a lifestyle vehicle.

 

This is the problem as BF says. The DC100 was rebuked by enthusiasts in the UK and JLR say that they have listened; but I think the marketing men are going to remain convinced that sending the Defender upmarket like it's stable-mates will be the way forward. I remain sceptical of the new car. There will no doubt be a run-off special and I can think of worse places to invest your money. 

Business, Industry & Commerce, Farmers, Agriculture Workers, Utility Companies & Leisure users will still need to be able to buy basic vehicles new that can tow 3500 kg with ease. likely diesels, & for less than £30,000.

(Many will not be wanting to go looking at Used Vehicles that need pampered to last you into the future.)

 

For proper heavy duty work use, not just lifestyle and rough tough look-alikes.

 Or ones you need to start modifying just to be able to do the job, nothing unusual in a Road Going Vehicle that needs to be able to go off tar, and then not just onto tracks, but into a field or off road ground..

They need Tow Pack fitted as Standard, or just simple bolt on, not much faffing about,

correct wiring all there, and Plug and Play for accessories or essential equipment,

Light Bars, Beacons, Winches etc.

 

Some manufacturer will step in and provide for that market hopefully, back to basics vehicles that are for work and have reliability

built in, and ones that you are not fighting the likes of corrosion with even if only cosmetic, from the day they leave the factory.

 

george

The problem with the Defender, is that while it might be great for towing 3500kg and be basic, plus be able to have beacons and a winch stuck on yearly sales have been around 20,000 per year worldwide for quite a while now.  It's old and outdated.

 

Remember they are built by hand and are, while not cheap at £20k-£30k, still far less than a lot of other Land/Range Rovers that are selling in far higher volumes and earning more profit per unit.

Compare that to the Toyota Hilux that sells over 500,000 units per year worldwide...

 

I personally believe that Land Rover have kept soldiering on with it only because it's iconic status rubs off on the rest of the range.

In the grand sceme of things there is probably very little financial sense in building them, when you look at worldwide Range Rover sales (including the new trendy ones).

 

To be honest, if I was looking at a new vehicle to carry on the Defender name I would look at a lifestyle vehicle that's easier to make and will sell like hot cakes around the world.

It's OK to moan about that, but JLR have already ignored the enthusiasts when it devalued the Range Rover name with the Sport and then the Evoque.

The result?  huge sales and huge profits.

And lets face it, when asked if they want to earn a fortune or remain true to Land Rover's iconic status from 30 years ago most shareholders will choose the former.

Nostalgia doesn't keep a company going.

 

Unfortunately the Defender has been a niche vehicle for a long time with low sales.  It needs significant change to make it worthwhile for JLR to market.

Land Rovers were the vehicle of choice all over the world a long time ago, they lost that position in the market and a budget ulitity doesn't fit the brand direction IMO.

I don't disagree that nostalgia shouldn't be the reason behind continued model production. I'm not sure that there isn't room for a basic workhorse though. Something with hard wearing seats and minimal Electrics. Nice simple stuff that doesn't cost a fortune. I suspect I'm dreaming though and the next Defender will be a lifestyle vehicle designed to tackle little more than a Chelsea kerb.

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Bowler Defender

 

Can see them, or someone like them taking over the old design and continuing it for the niche market

eg like Caterham taking over the Lotus 7

If Factories & Manufacturers can build the likes of Dacia or SSangYong or many Chinese AWD Vehicles, eg 'Great Wall'

rough tough looking cars of so so build and yet sell these  for £12,000-£15,000 and make profits.

 

Then surely they can use the same or similar materials and manufacturing,

improve the Build & use HD Parts and get a few models, Hard Top, Pickup, Tray Back  out for £24,000.

£30,000 is not far fetched for a Proper Work Horse, usably and functional not just a Chelsea Tractor.

If Land Rover/Jaguar with all their facilities and Experience can not get a Proper Workhorse on the Market in 2015 & meet EU Legistlslation,

it is only because they do not want to do that.

 

The EU were outlawing Quads and then found that Workers actually needed them,

and use them as the Designers intended them to be used.

 

It is the same with Working 4x4's or AWD's. Pickups with Part Time Select AWD, sometimes too limited Off Road Ability and Tow Capacities might meet most peoples needs, but not everyones.

It is a shame that anyone is forced to by Expensive Toyotas or Nissans to get a decent vehicle that might still not be basic enough, including interior wise..

 

george

I'm a moderator on a well known Land Rover forum (for Owners?) and the argument has been going on for years about how LR are committing a biblical scale sin by stopping production of the Defender.

 

The fact is that they have done an awesome job of keeping it in production for as long as they have done - it should have been killed off years ago by rights, but they have managed to alter it's classification from a "car" to a utility/commercial vehicle to escape from various regs. They've also managed to shoehorn several replacement powerplants under the bonnet (hence the bulge on post 2007 vehicles) in order to keep it within emissions regs.

 

While it is a great shame that it will soon cease production, the fact remains that the basic design harks back to the late 1940's, the cabin is cramped and uncomfortable, it is slow, horrible on tarmac, leaks like a sieve, falls apart and is hardly reliable. I love them because they are crammed with "character".

 

Now, purely to economics. Enthusiasts do not buy new vehicles. They buy old vehicles that were made in the 1980's or 1990's and do all their own work maintaining and/or modifying them. They are not a source of income for Jaguar-Land Rover (JLR). There are many enthusiasts that still think that LR sold out to comfort when they ditched leaf springs in favour of coils. Their heads explode when anyone mentions ECU's or air-suspension as being progress and not the spawn of Satan.

 

JLR have been losing sales against (mainly) Japanese 4x4's in the utility market for many years. I used to work for one of the electricity supply companies and their fleet used to compromise of mainly Defenders (based on the 130, with initially V8 petrols and then the Tdi/Td5 engines). Now you are hard pressed to find many JLR products - they use a lot of Mitsubishi/Isuzu etc - they are cheaper than the JLR product, arguably more comfortable for the user, and while they may not last as long as the Defender, due to being cheaper in the first place and spending less time in the workshops being repaired, they have a cheaper life-cost cycle so can be replaced more often.

 

JLR have moved away from the utility market and moved into the luxury & lifestyle side of things - and are very, very successful at it. The Defender is still a mainly hand built vehicle and is very costly to produce - hence it's price premium over other utility offerings.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'll be sad to see them stop being produced (and a part of me still wants to see Tata ship the production tooling over to India and re-import "knock down" kits back to the UK) but they've done an immense job of keeping the old warhorse going for as long as they have. 

Well said, Chappers!!

 

I'm intrigued which LR forum you Mod?

Yes good comments.  (Is that the same Chappers as is also a member on Devon 4x4 Forum?)

 

But remember there are Land Rover Enthusiasts that do buy new Defenders, Used Vehicles always need to be bought New by somebody, or there are no Used ones only Ex Demonstrators..

some that buy new are Moderators on other 4x4 Forums.

Business-Private users that Buy not Lease brand New Land Rover Defenders for their companies, and tow around their Hobby Land Rovers Competition, Classics, Renovations etc. Or just Broken down Land Rovers for other enthusiasts.

 

New bought ones by enthusiasts, are

Usually taken straight from the Dealership, then they need to start Rust Proofing or rust Inhibiting/treating,

& fixing all the Snagging Faults that JLR never bother to in the Factories,

& adding the extras a Land Rover Enthusiast or Business user needs and is not on the Land Rovers extensive/expensive Options list.

 

george

Quite agree Chappers but it will be sad to see it go. Out of interest, much mention of the 'hand built' production process. I didn't know this, any further info out there on that?

I was going to ask about your forum association too. As a new LR owner I have yet to find a suitable internet home.

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Difflock.com Forum,  Devon4x4.com  forum,

then all the ones that include the term 'Land Rover Owners'. Landy Zone, or LR4x4.

The forum is Land Rover Owners (LRO) - as per the magazine (mods please feel free to remove if mentioning this is against the rules). It's little more family friendly than some - I like it but there are plenty of others out there to suit all tastes.

 

When I said that enthusiasts do not buy new vehicles, I was generalising. There will always by the handful that have the funds available to buy a new Defender/Discovery etc, however the majority of people who would call themselves enthusiasts are generally buying and using much older vehicles. There is such a plethora of suppliers for spare parts out there that often then last place that most would go to for any replacement parts would be a LR dealer - and many vehicles are of an age that they are no longer supported by the manufacturer's supply chain anyway. There is a huge following for the brand out there, with a lot of businesses also specialising in the brand and associated products. 

 

Regarding the hand built process, obviously as much as possible has been automated, but with a basic bodyshell that was based on the Series 2 from the 1950's, a lot of the assembly is still having to be done by production workers actually using the automation to assist, rather then pressing a button and watching a robot do all the work for them. 

 

 

Skodanorman - out of interest, whereabouts in West Wales are you? The wife & my outlaws are all from there - it's somewhere people have only heard of if they've lived there - everyone else just knows it as North or South Wales.

Some good stuff here.

http://flyingspanners.net/index.php?do=videos.html

 

Hopefully this is going to still be possible for vehicles in the UK for the rest of our lives.