Do not panic just yet Scotland. 'Grangemouth Strike may shut Scotia'.

[domhnall]

George

 

I don't think I was wrong in 16. The closure has got nothing at all to do with the Unite guy. The strike was called off and then Ineos walked out of ACAS to shut the plant down. SO there was no strike on the cards, the report into the union official is not yet ready so there was no reason to start the shut down.

 

BBC described it today as "the nuclear option" and the real game here is they want the taxpayer to pay them to keep the plant open and keep the Forties pipeline running - oh and they want to screw the workforce over and teach them a lesson. You want to work here? OK have a wage cut. 

 

The plant is apparently worthless they say. OK Dave and George should call their bluff and buy it for £1. It's not right that a country should be able to be ransomed by a company like this. Other countries wouldn't stand for it. 

 

And Alex Salmond runnign around trying to look important isn't going to do anything, this is a reserved matter and frankly has naff all to do with him. Mr Cameron should be squaring up to the company and making clear in no uncertain terms that of they think they can screw over the economy for the sake of cutting their wage bills then they need to think again as it is putting the economy at risk.

[Ootohere]

The reason to start a shut down was because a 48 hour strike was due to start on Sunday 20th October 2013..

So Unite had held a ballot on Strike action over a Unite Union Convener and that was just the excuse the Refinery Owners required.

 

Post #1

& the link from 12/10/2013  Saturday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24501261

 

post #7,

14/10/2013, shut down started. Monday.

 

The shut down was in preparation to the Strike that was to last 48 hours,

therefore directly is because of Unites actions is it not?

 

Unite should maybe of Balloted on Pay & Conditions. then they would have been fighting a cause worth fighting.

 

george

[domhnall]

the strike was called off and THEN Ineos walked out and started the shut down (according to the BBC news).

 

They are at it and the Union have played right into their hands

[Ootohere]

Well read the post in #7 which was Monday Night. 14th October.   According to Sky News, BBC News and the Scottish Media.

Shut down was started. The stopping of production.

 

Wednesday and the Refinery was Shut to employees, the ones not doing the shut down.

Shut down a plant and the procedure of safely doing that so that it can then be safely restarted without damage

or closing down,

and the locking gates are different things.

 

I have followed it all week,& posted as the news changed,

 i have followed it since before this week.

 

I have followed the story in the Area since Eric Joyce MP needed to be replaced.

 

george

[lol-lol]

Hopefully a message to Chinese owners not to get involved in UK businesses.  200,000 barrels ie about 7.5m litres of fuel and Hdrocarbons out of the supply chain.  

 

 

=================================================================================

Since 2011 the company has continued to grow through a series of strategic Joint Ventures, the largest of which was formed with PetroChina, combining INEOS’s Refining interests at Grangemouth, in Scotland, and Lavéra, in France, with PetroChina’s access to upstream raw materials.[9] The 50:50 Joint Venture which completed in June 2011 is called Petroineos, In the same month, INEOS and BASF combined Styrenics businesses to form another 50:50 partnership,

=================================================================================

[Ootohere]

& 50% of all the production value which is Duty lost to the UK, just like in the 2008 Strike Action.

 

If this link does not work, just google 2008 grangemouth strike.

Same thing then, 48 hour strike, & Unite thought they could do the same again now.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/7367002.stm

 

** If you look in the link at 'Q&A's Grangemouth Dispute' you will see how long the gradual shutting down took on 2008, just as was required in 2013.

ie this week. & as they know from 2008, they can not shut down then start up, then shut down again.*

 

Then in 2008 Gordon Brown MP Prime Minister of the UK & Alex Salmond MSP First Minister met to talk over things.

Funnily the UK leader changes from a Labour Leader to a Conservative in the 5 years,

but Scotland elected First Minister is still there,

Scottish Finance Minister as well.

& even if not Devolved to the Scottish Government, there seems to be a combined effort to deal with the problem. (crisis)

 

If you need a UK Leader & a Scottish Leader to deal with an Oil Refinery Dispute who might have a better understanding,

the Career Politician & ex PR man,

or the Ex Oil Economist born less than 10 miles down the road from the refinery.?

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Salmond

 

george

 

EDIT, Latest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24571012

foot of the article tells how long it took to get back to production in 2008.

[lol-lol]

The loss to the UK revenue can be staggering.

 

Some of the Excise paying companies pay circa £10M Excise tax a day.

 

The Government will get some back from individuals as fuel prices go up and they get more VAT on the fuel but it will not replace the excise duty losses in timing and value. 

[Ootohere]

A 'Protest Vigil' is the term used for those outside the plant over night.

Because there is no strike & obviously there can be no pickets as that would be illegal.

 

Anyway i am off for the weekend will need to use around 80 litres of fuel,

so will be keeping the tank full when i see a filling station without a queue and hopefully can fill the tank again on Sunday night.

 

No panic buying just fuel management.

 

george

[domhnall]

The loss to the UK revenue can be staggering.

 

Some of the Excise paying companies pay circa £10M Excise tax a day.

 

The Government will get some back from individuals as fuel prices go up and they get more VAT on the fuel but it will not replace the excise duty losses in timing and value. 

 

hmmm but this is tricky for the UK Government as they are trying to peddle the line that Scotland only exists due to generous English subsidy and that Scotland contributes naff all to the UK.

HMRC of course say otherwise but who reads their stuff. Tad trickier if the lost revenue is splashed all over the news headlines.

[domhnall]

If you need a UK Leader & a Scottish Leader to deal with an Oil Refinery Dispute who might have a better understanding,

the Career Politician & ex PR man,

or the Ex Oil Economist born less than 10 miles down the road from the refinery.?

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Salmond

 

george

 

 

 

George - newly converted member of the Alex Salmond fan club.

 

[lol-lol]

A 'Protest Vigil' is the term used for those outside the plant over night.

Because there is no strike & obviously there can be no pickets as that would be illegal.

 

Anyway i am off for the weekend will need to use around 80 litres of fuel,

so will be keeping the tank full when i see a filling station without a queue and hopefully can fill the tank again on Sunday night.

 

No panic buying just fuel management.

 

george

 

Remember to do a bit of filling using the expansion tank to get that 50 litres in and then drive on light throttle, has the extra benefit of paying less tax in the long run to the Exchequer.

 

Happy Hypermiling.   http://www.hypermiler.co.uk/

[stu_mcl]

Still workers outside today, including police and tv cameras

None of my mates that are working there have no idea whats going on

[Ootohere]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24580313

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24593322

The first stories give facts,

the Independents just chooses to miss the obvious and actual and put another spin on things.

Like the Union Unite did call the strike and the plant shut down in preparation did need to then begin.

no point being smart after the fact, some plonkers that run Unite could not see what a blind man could see as clear as day.

Unite Members maybe need to look at those they are Paying Subs to and if they are fit to lick their boots.

Certainly not the kind to put your livelihood & future in the hands of IMHO.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gas-city-grangemouth--the-frontline-of-britains-energy-war-8890335.html

[Ootohere]

Now that the Grangemouth Petrochemicals Plant & Refinery Workers jobs are safe for now,

maybe more will be able to come out about what was going on in the area,

 

much of which might be involving Unite, Unites' Full time Officials, maybe the Convener,

& then Scottish & UK Labour & Ed Miliband.

There may well be connections between the local UK Labour Candidate Selection & people with connection to the Grangemouth Refinery or just in that someone that is an employee at the Refinery..

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2477725/Miliband-duped-union-dirty-tricks-vote-rigging-probe.html

[Ootohere]

The news is reporting that the Unite Convener and an Employee at Grangemouth has resigned from his job at Grangemouth..

That is the day before his Disciplinary Hearing.

[slider]

Funny smell around Mr Deans...........

[parisbun]

The news is reporting that the Unite Convener and an Employee at Grangemouth has resigned from his job at Grangemouth..

That is the day before his Disciplinary Hearing.

 

Spoke to a guy who works there this morning, he told me the guy had quit, and was starting with ACAS at £100k a year. That might just be rumours though.

[slider]

wouldn't put it past him.  Unions complain at management and politicians creating "jobs for the boys"  but their pots and kettles are just as black

[domhnall]

Labour's silence throughout this, despite it coinciding with a high profile by election, has been deafening. The FM was all over it like a rash but all they could do was bleat that alex salmond had increased the cost of living. No mention of grangemouth at all. A cynic might think it was due to the labour leadership being unite sponsored.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[cheezemonkhai]

Labour complain about the rich boys and jobs for the boys, but they're at it at least as bad as the others.

 

The thing with a rich person, is that they don't have a need for the money.

They might do things which are still questionable for sure.

 

But a person who has no money, hates the rich because they're rich and likes the power trip.

Now that's dangerous.

[lol-lol]

Another view....

 

Far from being a crisis for the trade union movement, as it has been portrayed by some parts of the mainstream media, Grangemouth proved to be a crisis for UK political and industrial democracy, writes the general secretary of the Scottish TUC. by Grahame Smith - 29th October 2013, 7.30 GMT

 

Swiss-based operator of the Grangemouth refinery and petrochemicals plant had threatened to close the site unless workers accepted a 3-year pay freeze and immediate changes to pension scheme Last week’s events reveal all we need to know about where power lies in Britain today, and it is frightening. [ineos CEO] Jim Ratcliffe’s decision not to proceed with the closure of the Ineos petrochemical plant following the workforce’s acceptance of his ‘recovery plan’ has been variously described as another illustration of the lack of union power and influence.

 

The real story of Grangemouth is that it was Government that was powerless to prevent one individual deciding the fate of a strategically vital national industrial asset, its 1,300 strong workforce, and thousands more workers besides, and the fate of a local community. Despite all the cajoling of [scottish First Minister] Alex Salmond, [uK Energy Minister] Ed Davey and [scottish Secretary] Alistair Carmichael, it took the Ineos workforce and their union Unite to take the decisive step that made it impossible for Ratcliffe to walk away as he was determined to do just two days previously. It is beyond belief that one of the supposedly most powerful nations on the globe was incapable of stopping the closure of the Grangemouth plant. The closure of a community centre in Grangemouth would have required a more extensive due process, and greater transparency and accountability than was involved in the decisions to close a vital industrial facility. Far from being a crisis for the trade union movement, this is a crisis for democracy, political and industrial democracy. When a union, on behalf of a workforce, and an employer enter into a collective agreement it is a form of industrial democracy or, although in no sense equal, of workplace power-sharing. With it comes a responsibility on both sides to negotiate to resolve differences and, on union members, a legal requirement to demonstrate through a secret ballot that there is support for any industrial action proposed if agreement cannot be reached.

 

It has been lost amongst the many other issues involved at Ineos that the ballot of Unite members had a turnout of 86%, exceptional by any standards, with 82% in support of strike action and 92% in support of action short of strike. Implicit in this legal requirement on the union to ballot is the expectation that the employer will recognise its outcome and the strength of feeling it demonstrates and respond accordingly. Despite voluntarily entering into a collective agreement with Unite, Ineos simply refused to negotiate at every turn, issued a take it or leave it ultimatum, and its response to the outrage of its workforce at the treatment of one of their colleagues and the rejection of its ultimatum was to shut the plant. It has been suggested that the level of investment proposed by Ineos at Grangemouth justified its actions. The company has presented this as if Jim Ratcliffe intends to write a personal cheque for the £300m involved. The truth is that, as is the way with private equity companies, the money will come from the markets, not from earned income. As Ineos is so highly levered it needs to use earned income to pay the interest on its debt. New borrowing for Grangemouth demands the minimum of lender risk. That risk has now been transferred in large part to the Scottish and UK taxpayers and, given the sacrifice they made to keep the plant open, the workforce.

 

It is important to look to the future and to the success that we all know the Grangemouth facility will be. But we cannot ignore the fundamental issues thrown up in the last week about where power should lie and how the will of the people in a democracy should be exercised. The Scottish Constitutional debate, the debate about where power should lie and why, will be of little real relevance if Government, wherever it sits, does not have the power to prevent private equity capital threatening the stability of a country’s economy, or a workforce is unable to influence the actions of an employer. Grahame Smith is general secretary of the STUC. - See more at: http://union-news.co.uk/2013/10/grangeouth-ineos-real-power-lie/

 

[Ootohere]

Plan B was reported to be Alex Salmond meeting with Greenery. now that did get the move on required.

 

http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenergy

[Ootohere]

The Labour Party & Unite Union Leaders and the membership still have lots to answer for over what has been going on.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24758166

[lol-lol]

The Labour Party & Unite Union Leaders and the membership still have lots to answer for over what has been going on.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24758166

 

I thought Rat-cliffe was a Swiss resident or maybe Macau or Hong Kong or all 3, which ever is the best tax exile place for him and his company.

 

First heard this I thought it was expensive for UNITE to send pickets to Switzerland to show Rat-cliffe their anger for holding to ransom the British and Scottish Government and Workers.

 

If the British/Scottish Governments had any conviction they should have Compulsory Purchased Ordered the business for a pound and said to Rat-cliffe goodbye and goodnight.    

[slider]

so personal intimidation is aright then???