This is an edited summary of my first post in "Introduce yourself"; it was suggested that I would be better off to post my question(s) here.

 

I am thinking of buying a Skoda Octavia, new, and am looking for advice.  I have never previously owned and am uncertain about a Diesel.  I typically drive about 8000 miles per year, mostly around town but about once a week I will do ten mile to twenty runs on dual carriageways and motorways and I will do about eight 300 mile runs and two or four 600 mile runs a year.

 

On reflection, I will be replacing two cars (a Renault Scenic and a Nissan Micra) with a new car so I will actually be doing nearer 12,000 miles per year.  My main reasons for favouring a diesel relate to torque, MPG and carrying capacity.  I am NOT a boy racer and am not interested in a VRS, great though I am sure they are.

The Octavia in which I am (perhaps was?) interested is a 2.0 TDI CR DSG Estate.

I got the following response which suggested that I should consider a Petrol 1.4 TSI:

 

Welcome to the forum. How many miles you do isn't such a big deal because the diesels hold their value so much better than petrols. It's the type of journeys you do which is important. If most of your journeys are short stop start ones you may be better off with a petrol, though the regular longer trips you do will help if you prefer a diesel. Have you test driven any yet, if not I would suggest you test drive both and see which you prefer and discuss your driving patterns with the dealer and go from there. DPF issues are vastly overstated especially in the vRS and are mostly due to them being fitted to the earlier PD engines which were never designed to run on them. Any issues are normally sensor related rather than with the DPF. The petrol tsi engines are very smooth and the more powerful (than the 1.4 fitted to the mkII) 140ps 1.4 is a belter.

 

I would appreciate any considered opinions that anyone can venture

Edited 27 October, 201312 yr by Tramell

Go for the 1.4 TSI, more refined, £2k cheaper than 150CR TDI and 50+ MPG by all accounts on here. You would need to cover at least 15k per year and keep for at least 3 years to make the TDI a better long term proposition. I do 22k per year and still think I may have slipped up opting for the diesel as didn't realise how close to official mpg the TSI gets whereas the TDI in real world is 15-20% below official combined.

Yes my vote would be with the TSI and probably with the DSG, particularly if you do a lot of town driving. Other benefits the DSG has over the manual mated to a petrol motor are cheaper VED plus you should get slightly better mpg; diesel it's the reverse.

 

If I'd not wanted 4x4 then this would have been my engine choice and I do 13-15k a year.

 

 

TP

Another issue if you are doing relly low mileage is that you probably make mostly short trips.

In this case the diesels are less efficient as they warm up more slowly than petrols and at cold all engines tend to consume more fuel.

 

Also I doubt if you are planning to sell your car after 5-6 years that the 2k difference in the market price would be retained (unless these new TSIs turn out to be problematic, but so far there are no known issues).

Is the 1.4 DSG that good then? Interesting....

If there's a lot of short trips I'd be wary of the dpf causing issues.

I've never driven the 150 diesel as I'm a boy racer . I did however get a test drive of the 1.4tsi estate (used to a fabia vrs diesel so we wanted to be sure swmbo could handle the size) and was really impressed.

The 1.4 didn't feel in anyway underpowered with 3 adults in the car pulling off or merging onto motorway/dual carageway. I've been driving very underpowered cars recently (1.2 corsa, 1ltr pug 107) and the octavia was nothing like that.

Another thing which I think others have mentioned is that as the petrol will heat up quicker for a very short journey the petrol may do far better mpg. Certainly my fabia seems to chew fuel if it's just used by swmbo (2 mins to tesco, 10 mins to work type journeys).

I suspect the 1.4 will be nicer to drive and a better fit for yourself however I'd advise you drive both and see what your think.

(Gah. Typing on iphone - hence multiple edits)

Edited 27 October, 201312 yr by gullyg

Its not a straightforward argument. The TDi will be more expensive to buy with cash but if you will finance it the TDI will work out cheaper to purchase.

Regardless of the mileage the TDi will also be more frugal and probably cheaper to tax.

That said the 1.4 TSi probably does just have the edge in the performance stakes and is probably the nicer car to drive; be more refined too.

Id say its more down to how much you are prepared to spend to run one over a few years than the mileage you do.

Low mileage and private purchase makes the petrol a good option. The 1.4TSI is by all accounts a beautiful engine, smooth, refined, powerful enough, and almost dieisel like in fuel emconomy. Good choice.

Is the 1.4 TSi used in the Octavia, Yeti and Superb etc the same as fitted to the Fabia vRS?

 

The ONLY reason I would not consider the vRS is due to a number of cars that have required new engines due to their unhealthy appetite for oil. 

It is certainly powerful enough, however if the car is going to be loaded up frequenly then the 2.0 TDi is going to be a better bet IMO.

My dad runs the 1.4TSI with DSG in an Octavia II FL. It is so smooth, so quiet, surprisingly fast and fairly economical (averaging around 45mpg). The combination of the DSG and the TSI engine is an excellent one IMHO.

Driven the 1.4TSI in manual form and the TDI 150 in DSG. The 150 has the performance edge; even knocking on the door of the 184 vRS DSG which I've also tried. In terms of refinement the 150 is a step forward on the TDI CR in our Yeti but the TSI is still the smoother and quieter motor and has plenty of go in it's own right, particularly in Sport mode when you need it.

 

 

TP

Is the 1.4 TSi used in the Octavia, Yeti and Superb etc the same as fitted to the Fabia vRS?

 

The ONLY reason I would not consider the vRS is due to a number of cars that have required new engines due to their unhealthy appetite for oil. 

It is certainly powerful enough, however if the car is going to be loaded up frequenly then the 2.0 TDi is going to be a better bet IMO.

No, its a totally different unit, a generation on in fact. Personally I wouldn't touch a Fabia VRS for that very reason tbh. The Mk2 Octy and yeti only got the turbo only 122ps model. This new unit is 140ps turbo but with the same torque output of the current Yeti/Superb 1.8TSi unit making it really flexible and very economical when needed. I'd choose the 1.4TSi in the OP's situation without hesitation. Its very slightly quicker thean the 150ps if you use all the revs (although it doesn't feel it tbh) and its quieter and more refined at cruising speed as well as under acceleration.

No, its a totally different unit, a generation on in fact.

 

Thanks, that’s reassuring 

I ordered a 1.4TSI Elegance Estate to replace my 1.6 TDI Fabia.  I do similar driving to you and my 1.6TDI is returning 50mpg and I did consider the same engine in the Octavia with the DSG box.

 

Because I will be doing a lot more town driving and only the occasional long run I decided the TSI (I find it takes two 10 mile runs for a normal regen to complete) and in real driving I do not see much difference in MPG between the petrol and diesel.

 

In terms of torque the two engines provide torque of TDI 350Nm from 1500 rpm to 4400 and the 1.4TSI 250Nm from 1500 to 3500rpm, in my opinion around town the difference will not be noticed. 

 

Yes the 1.4TSI engine is the same as in the current Fabia VRS minus a supercharger, but is the newer version.

 

Finally do not forget you are on the borderline for potential DPF issues or having to make long runs just to clear the DPF - if a DPF goes what will the cost be?

A few questions - just to try to help clarify what kind of buyer / owner / driver you might regard yourself as -they are not meant to be impertinent or intrusive

You seem to have, very sensibly, already analysed what kind of driving you are likely to do, and what you look for in a car, just as I would.

However -

(1) How long do you expect to keep the car?

(2) Do you usually buy cars new or second-hand?  And why?

(3) Will this be a private purchase and for your own or family use, or will there be any element of company use?

(4) Will you be paying cash, or do you plan to use any sort of finance deal?

(5) What features do you like most & least about the cars you have at present?

(6) Why are you thinking of changing?

Edited 27 October, 201312 yr by Stuarted

Yes the 1.4TSI engine is the same as in the current Fabia VRS minus a supercharger, but is the newer version.

I'm pretty sure that's wrong. The version without the supercharger is used in the older Golf GT etc. this is a new design, ground up and not related to the Fabia VRS engine. Oh and the torque range of the 1.6tdi is stated incorrectly also.

Yes the Octy III uses the new EA211 type TSI built by Skoda for the VAG group (16v and belt driven)

 

The other models still use the older EA113 TSI engine; 1.2TSI 8v and chain driven as an example.

 

 

TP

I ordered a 1.4TSI Elegance Estate to replace my 1.6 TDI Fabia.  I do similar driving to you and my 1.6TDI is returning 50mpg and I did consider the same engine in the Octavia with the DSG box.

 

In terms of torque the two engines provide torque of TDI 350Nm from 1500 rpm to 4400 and the 1.4TSI 250Nm from 1500 to 3500rpm, in my opinion around town the difference will not be noticed.

The 1.6 CR actually produces 250Nm torque between 1500-2750rpm, giving the 1.4 TSI equal peak torque and a much broader torque curve. i think you have confused the 1.6CR with VRS 2.0 TSI figures. The 1.4 TSI will feel significantly faster than the 1.6CR due to shorter gearing, wider torque band, and higher rev range.

A few questions - just to try to help clarify what kind of buyer / owner / driver you might regard yourself as -they are not meant to be impertinent or intrusive

You seem to have, very sensibly, already analysed what kind of driving you are likely to do, and what you look for in a car, just as I would.

However -

(1) How long do you expect to keep the car?

(2) Do you usually buy cars new or second-hand?  And why?

(3) Will this be a private purchase and for your own or family use, or will there be any element of company use?

(4) Will you be paying cash, or do you plan to use any sort of finance deal?

(5) What features do you like most & least about the cars you have at present?

(6) Why are you thinking of changing?

Reasonable questions.

1) I hope to keep the car for at least ten years.

2) Have typically bought second-hand but this will quite likely be new - because I'm worth it

3) Private purchase.

4) Paying cash

5) I like that both cars have been very reliable to date. However, on long runs they tend to be tiring (underpowered?)

6) Age of the cars and an increasing number of long (tiring) runs,often in heavy traffic - therefore DSG for sure.  It is significant that I am replacing a town run-around and a car which has been handy for taking rubbish to the dump, going on holiday, etc. with a single car.

 

Many thanks for lots of useful feedback, it is much appreciated (doffs cap).

Edited 27 October, 201312 yr by Tramell

In my haste to get the wife, I forgot to put th 2.0 before the Tdi.

I checked with Skoda UK and they told me the 1.4 TSI engine was the same in the Octy and VRS minus a supercharger.

Don't forget that the DSG in the 2.0 TDI lowers MPG and in the TSI it is supposed to improve MPG.

Edited 27 October, 201312 yr by Dempsek

In my haste to get the wife, I forgot to put th 2.0 before the Tdi.

I checked with Skoda UK and they told me the 1.4 TSI engine was the same in the Octy and VRS minus a supercharger.

Don't forget that the DSG in the 2.0 TDI lowers MPG and in the TSI it is supposed to improve MPG.

I'm afraid that's Skoda uk giving out duff info re the Fabia engine. As the plumber says above its now the totally new EA211 engine.

Just to add another dimension to the discussion. Now the OP has said he wants to keep the car for a long time looking at the mk III brochure I have it doesn't show a DSG option for the 1.4tsi, so is there one and is it the 6 or 7speed and if so how reliable are they as the 2.0 150 has the 6 speed version?

I have a 1.4 with 7speed DSG built awaitng arrival at dealer.