It appears that Skoda is killing off the Furby Vrs which is a great shame. Apparently it does not fit in with Skoda's "practical" image and is a slow seller. That is something i have never understood with the big discounts that Skoda offer on the Furby. You can even get the handling sorted with lowered springs so i am told. This leaves the Octavia Vrs for the moment but it does make me wonder about the longterm future of the Vrs moniker.

I personally think good value sporty versions of family cars are a winner and would be a much better investment than the dull as ditchwater and slow selling Rapid for example but guess the powers that be there think differently :/

I think they are not going to use the vRS name even if they have a Warm/Hot Mk3 Fabia because of the bad reputation

the name will have in many of the publics minds.

Thats from the Mk2 Fabia vRS after the disaster that Skoda/VW/SEAT/Audi have made of Customer Service with the High Oil Consumption/Faulty, badly Quality Controlled 1.4 TSI Twincharger Engines they have built.

 

Maybe only 20 % Faulty, but more are having trouble all the time of the 1,800 or so CAVE engine mk2 vRS in the UK,

then those around the world including Oil Users in Australia.

Even some of the 800 in the UK with the newer engine have problems.

 

Great cars and many owners like them,

Owners of bad ones have a fight on their hands getting Skoda or the other 3 VAG brand Customer Service departments to even accept there are problems.

Dealers salespeople and Service Reception Desk staff

& even Technicians mostly say, 'They are all like that'.

 

So Audi are getting a new A1/S1 & VW are about to launch a Face Lift Polo. and Sporty Looks to get some sales from the Polo results & publicity in Rallying.

Skoda are going Rallying with a 1.6 T engine, so it will be interesting to see if they use the Mk3 Fabia Body or a Rapid Spaceback.

 

If they do, surely the Hottest Model in that range on sale will not only be 122ps or even just 105 ps.

Sporty Looking and with the usual very basic or not very competent suspension that they seem to throw together for their sporty looking but not sporty handling models.

 

Of the 66,000 cars Skoda sold in the UK in 2013, 21,000 were Fabias,

and 18-19,000 of those were not Monte Carlos or vRS,

So it looks like they really need to get the Mk3 Fabias as Customers will want to buy and at the right prices.

 

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/skoda-fabia-vrs-is-no-more-skoda-suv-coming-2013-08-21

Orders for new MK2 Fabia vRS have been quite high since the CEO did an interview in August saying they would not be using the vRS Name on MK3 Fabias when they actually get around to releasing them.

Pitty he never mentioned the Bad Builds they have had, apologised to those effected and 

assured them he would see their cars were properly repaired and they would have their out of pocket losses compensated.

** Even an Extended Warranty from Skoda on all Mk2 vRS would be a move forward.**

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/294051-cave-cthe-14tsi-just-reply-please-if-you-have-had-an-engine-replaced

 

george

George I agree that when running right the Twincharge Fabia is a terrific little car: the engine is really willing and the transmission very quick. I baulked at getting one though because i was lairy about the amount of bolt on tech and the cost if anything went wrong. I did an autotest back in 2009 here where I said as much. I hope you are right and that it is just a question of goodwill. I know Skoda have a 1.6 Turbo unit on the way but from this it does not sound like it will make it into the new Fabia.

It will be interesting to see what does happen once they have their 3 cylinder petrol and diesels on the go and the Sporty Looks models.

 

If they Rally with R5 1.6T engines in Skodas by 2015,

something warm and cheaper than the VW's & Audis might appear come time for the UK market.

 

http://autoexpress.co.uk/audi/a1/85317/audi-s1-confirmed-geneva-motor-show

Hmmmm I know you don't like people saying this George but the first VRS was a success as it was cheap, well built, economical, real world quick and had a well proven Diesel under the bonnet. People here liked the unusual format and it was successful yet they could not even sell the mk 1 Diesel on the continent. Maybe Skoda are doing the right thing as no matter how good the twincharge engine is (when it works) the Current Fabia is hardly talented in the chassis department compared to the Fiesta for example. I maintain it was the complicated and unreliable engine , the preference for high octane fuel and the DSG only the put people off (indeed there is evidence that the DSG only new Clio Sport is not taking off like the old. But as I say the Octy sells because there is a Diesel variant imho.

It is a shame as if the Fabia Vrs in its current form did not have such an abysmal record of reliability i would be very tempted by an estate. I may still be tempted by a used one later, hopefully where someone else has fought the warranty battles. As to your mentioning customer service, i had a fight on my hands when my turbo went pop outside warranty (just). Skoda UK did not want to know but the garage where the car was recovered (Murray of Newton Abbott in Devon) were great and contacted Czech who did pay for a new blower and assembly (though I had to pay £350 in labour). A friend on here had so much hassle with Skoda with his Octavia Vrs that once he had had it fixed he sold it in disgust and vowed never to go near the brand again. I think the guys in czech are very reasonable ( one guy over there sent me a two volume Skoda history after I asked where I could buy it free of charge) but Skoda UK suck now. Think they are getting swept up in their own hype but they need to be careful as Mercedes went down that road in the early noughties and it has taken them years to recover goodwill and get back to old quality standards (or at least try to)

Just to add the original Fabia Vrs was not a success on the continent either. It appears that only the Brits saw the concept for what it was and bought into it. Therefore I guess Skoda were trying to make a car that would appeal Europe wide and failed. I still maintain that if they sold the Mk 2 Fab Vrs with at least the option of the 170 (or even the 140) 2.0 TDI CR (if they could engineer it to drive well: taking into account weight etc) then the car would have been as big a success as the Mk1 model at least over here.

If you get a chance go get a test drive in a Clio RS 200 Turbo, it is just nothing special. IMO

 Its never always worth listening to Journalists that do not like Automatics,

but i am not a journalist & only drive automatics and Renault do not have their Twin Clutch box right.

 

The lardy car needs all of its 197 bhp,

& it does have some nice features, but i am not sure about some on these, and what a 10 year old one will be like.

Recycled i would imagine.

But bought for 19 grand or under and cared for with TLC over 10 years and you might still have a car worth owning

and its cost just been a nice 2 grand a year or so to own.

(Ex Demos for under £16,000)

Not many RS 200 T's around.

 

Fun choosing what Noise you want it to make, and some other bits and pieces.

 

george

George I have heard that the box in the Clio is dreadful and very slow to respond. To be honest it seems that Volkswagen Group are the only manufacturer to make a good twin clutch box in a real world car. Mercedes, Ford, Kia, Renault etc have all been criticised for having unresponsive boxes.

From what I have read the latest moves are conventional autos which lock up early (like the 8 speed in BMWs) but with 10 plus gears. You ever driven a BMW with that box? It is as good as any DSG. Anyway I prefer a manual (yes I know you can't drive one) So would shun the Clio for either a new Fiesta ST or a used Megane 250 cup A car that I have not driven but which gets rave reviews from the mags (just thinking that the ride may be too hard though) or maybe a GT86 if I could get used to the lack of low down torque.

As to the recorded noises in the Clio what nonsense. I like to hear a motor. I know four pots normally sound dull but again much rather go the route of Ford pumping induction noise into the cabin than a corny recording of a 60s Alpine. Just my two pennyworth btw but the motoring press have slammed the new Cliosport as a sellout and as the old versions were cult cars (like the MK1 Vrs) you are always going to have issues when you make such radical changes to a loved formula.

Edited 24 January, 201412 yr by Matt Bodycombe

Very OT,  

but i went and looked at the Kia Proceed GT, just to nosey.

 

I liked the Interior more than a Clio RS 200 T.  

The Brakes are the same as many new cars now including Skoda, Kia & Hyundais can get surface corrosion within hours of parking up. ( i like that Fords don't)

Exterior a bit too Bling IMO, but some might like that.

 

I would think a Suzuki Swift Sport might be a more involved & fun driving car, and much less of a car to loose money quickly.

but someone that drives Manuals would say how they go.

I did not know that Ford discs resisted corrosion. I will have to ask my brother in law about that as he is a Ford mechanic. I thought all discs got surface corrosion after being parked up for a while.

 

As for the GT Kia, I think it is a good looking car and if it was priced more competitively ( say £17k-£19K) it would sell well. I have not driven one but the reports as I said say it is competent but not exciting. A Focus ST can be had with a bit of haggling for the same money and that is what I would put my money on.

 

Anyway talking of Fabia VRS cars, what is the difference between the CAVE and the other engine. Is one less likely to go bang? As I said I like the twin charge engine and its delivery but I think it is a little bit too Heath Robinson for long term reliability. I always have said this and have been proved right.

Very far from Heath Robinson, very advanced but as usual poorly executed by VAG because of their usual lack of Quality Control on parts.

 

Penny pinch or lack of R&D on basic simple components, and lack of action when reports start on parts going wrong,

& too often Dealership Technicians that really are not trained to even start to deal with the complexity of the Engine, sensors etc.

Some can not even put them out with the correct quantity of oil.

Even fitting new engines and then over filling,

& on consumption tests & weighing of oil, you get muppets that think 1 litre of engine oil weighs 1 kg.

(its 856/857 grams per litre. so 3.6 litres is not the 3600 grams that some have worked on.)

 

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_359.pdf

(this is basicaly it, but this was the engine up to 125kW and not the CAVE/CTHE which is 132 or 136kW)

 

The CAVE engine is from 2009-late 2012,  then the CTHE engine with revised internals and a different MAP.

There are threads on here with links to the Differences between the parts, CAVE/CTHE

Even CTHE engines have now failed.

 

The Ex CEO from VW USA is now the head of Volvo Cars, 

i am sure that Volvo will do the small petrol Twincharger properly, when they get into building them.

Thanks for that on the Twin Charger issues. I am not sure that Volvo has any plans for a twin charge though has it? I know most of the petrols are curently based on Ford units if I am not mistaken? Hate to say it but if he is an American I would guess he is more of a cost cutting bean counter than an engineer. The old boss of VW Ferdinand Piech was very much an engineer and was obsessive about quality but I don't know who is in charge now. It never was the case that Volkswagen skimped on their engines but the stories of inferior quality control setting in has been going on for a while now. The 1.9 TDI PD for instance is pretty much bullet proof if you look after it but then VW replaced it with the 2.0 TDI PD which was atrocious: porous bores, faulty oil pumps that would give out with no warning etc. They go seem to have sorted things out with the CR engines though.

 

Also why just inferior workmanship and parts on the Twincharger? From what I can see the 122 hp 1.4 TSI with just the turbo is a pretty reliable engine all told. I am guessing that the difference between the engines is that one is the de-tuned 160 bhp twinner that was in the last Golf and the 180 bhp engine that was in the Fabia. When I say heath robinson I mean that a clutched supercharger, turbocharger etc is a little bit complex for a mass market car. I suppose such a layout would be excellent if it was engineered with a money no object perfectionist attitude but any cost cutting makes one shudder.

 

As for mechanics at dealerships, I can only say that from my experience, a lot of them are numpties. Not all mind you. My bro in law works for Ford, he services my car and he knows what he is doing but I would always use a good independent outside of warranty as they need your business more and normally have a more caring attitude.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Take it all back looks like they are developing a twin charge: interesting let's just hope to hell it is engineered with quality in mind:

 

http://www.caradvice.com.au/247146/volvo-details-new-drive-e-engines-confirms-228kw-twin-charged-four/

Edited 25 January, 201412 yr by Matt Bodycombe

http://carthrottle.com/volvo-has-killed-the-t5-engine-to-join-the-twincharger-revolution

Yeah thanks for that: mixed reviews about the new engines in the Torygraph and English is an old school motoring journo who I trust:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/volvo/10364069/Volvos-new-engines-reviewed.html

 

The only thing that I would comment on with the carthrottle article is the point that Andrew English makes. People paying big money for an exclusive vehicle want smoothness and refinement and, no matter how efficient, a four cylinder will never be as smooth as a six or an eight. That twincharge he drove may be a development mule though so guess we will have to reserve judgment. Ford have proved that downsizing can work as their 1.0 3 cyl ecoboost, especially in 125 bhp guise is very smooth and pulls very strongly. It looks like reliability is holding up with them too.

Edited 25 January, 201412 yr by Matt Bodycombe

I thought i had seen all the reviews, but had missed this one.

 

(although an another reviewer that reads the brochure and gets it wrong,

There are no front Foglights and not so sure he tried the TC Button off or experienced the XDS.)

 

http://listers.co.uk/Reviews/Skoda/Fabia/8660

Thanks for the review Sk4GW. I still may get myself a Fabia VRS estate later if I can find one at a good price, with a full skoda history and a sheaf load of bills for remedial work. It wouldstill be a huge gamble though but I do love the way it drives. it sounds lovely from the outside too. I remember hearing one of the guys gunning one out of a junction when one was brought to the Kent meet when it first came out. Nice supercharger whine and furbo whistle and good pops and bangs from the exhaust: bit like a Delta S4 with the volume turned down to about 3 lol :P

It would be a shame to see the Fabia Vrs killed off, but as mentioned by Matt skoda didn't do themselves any favours.

I love the idea of the twin charged engine, but coming from the manual diesel Vrs the lack of manual box and diesel option has put me off.

You can see why the Monte Carlo is really selling well as it's ticking the boxes of the mk1 owners

The Monte Carlo is not really selling well though.

Maybe 5,000 in the UK now.

Last Year the sales of Monte Carlos were at a near standstill and they had to Introduce 1000 Tech Models,  which were cheaper,

then Tech Estates, nice.

 

Still out of 66,000 Skodas of which 32,000 were Fabias sold in 2013 in the UK,

yet only about 1,000 were vRS

and 2,000 were Monte Carlos.

 

Hopefully the MK3 Fabia will have a good choice of Engines, a choice of Gearboxes and good handling as a default.

& even if no vRS, at least something available with more than 105 ps.

 

george

The problem is that the people who buy a skoda fabia are generally older people or people who do not care about a car.

Thats why they buy a 1.2 or whatever is cheapest.

The monte carlo / vrs is a niche model. And the fact the 1.4tsi is a lemon and runs on the wrong fuel the vrs was destined to die.

Unfortunate as the mk1 was a cracker

Edited 1 February, 201412 yr by BigJase88

Big Jase,

that is an interesting view, it seems a bit stereo type when you get to see how many have Fabias as an extra car,

or family cars and also own real cars as well.

 

Not so many of the cheapest models sold as a percentage, the old foggies seem to like the better than basic models,

but yes 'much cheapness' does seem to be a major thing with people,

and once you get on in life you have maybe heard enough Tractors and lose the interest in running cars with engines that sound like that. You do not want to pull up some place and people think 'ah the Taxi has arrived'

 

More power and a manual box for the Polo GTI from 2015

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/polo/85469/facelifted-volkswagen-polo-gti-gets-manual-gearbox

That looks interesting but will the 2015 Polo have the Twin Charge engine in it? I heard that VW were due to phase it out soon because of its track record but the above article seems to suggest it is a more powerful version of the current engine. I would be interested to try a twincharge with a manual gearbox though.

I do not think they suggest anything. Its just a Press release and not much info.

 

the 1.4 TSI (1390cc) engine can be possibly less but some are 105ps - 185ps now,

Turbo or Turbo and Supercharger,

 

I thought they were maybe doing a new Turbo or Twin Turbo even,

it needs to be Euro 6 Emissions, i expected a new engine.

 

 As it is, the 180 ps or the 185ps Twinchargers

are more than that minimum on a Dyno.

It says it will be a 189bhp so i would guess it is a twincharger. I doubt they would be tuning the turbo only 1.4 up to that figure. I will be interested to drive it when it comes out.

But it needs to be a Euro 6 compliant engine in 2015, well from September 2015.

 

So i suspected a new 1.4 TSI rather than one that they already have Revised and yet are still failing with just 132-136 kW,

(Minimum 180-185ps in the A1)

 On the Dyno on 99 ron they can often already make over 189 BHP.

 

There is yet another member with a CTHE engine Failed and its currently being investigated,

so that is 3 Briskoda members i know of with Engines from 2013 that are bad ones.

 

Around 600 of them sold in the UK since October 2012 in the vRS,

so it will be interesting to see how many go as they clock up the miles.

I'm starting to think that buying a 'working' mk2 vrs would be a sound investment (to store in a garage and not use!) as in 10 years time they may be somewhat of a rarity with the twin charger's track record  :think: