Skoda Felicia 1.3 from 1999 do not start

[fusan]

Hi all

 

I have a Skoda Felicia 1.3 from 1999. Recently the car had starting problems and the engine down shut down while I was driving in it. I pulled over, started it again (sometimes several times) and moved on without any issues that day. The last time it did that, I just couldnt start it again. Towed it home and threw VAG COM on it to see what was wrong.

 

These errorcodes appeared:

 

Engine:

--------

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-S

Control Module Part Number: 047 906 030 M

Component and/or Version: SIMOS 2P 7015

Software Coding: 31799

Work Shop Code: WSC 130103

1 Fault Found:

17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer

P1570 - 35-00 - -

 

Immobilizer:

------------

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-S

Control Module Part Number: 1H0 953 257 B

Component and/or Version: IMMO VWZ3Z0X3352335 V00

Software Coding: 09600

Work Shop Code: WSC 00416

1 Fault Found:

01177 - Engine Control Unit 65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent

 

What I can figure out off all that is, that somehow it seems like the immobilizer is being activated for some reason. I assume that it is because the ECU resetted the codes for the key or somthing similar.

 

This is what I tried, that didnt help:

-------------------------------------------

- Checked the cables on the Immobilizer, sprayed some contact cleaner on it and reconnected.

- Unplugged the battery for 10 mins and reconnected it.

- Turned the key to right before the engine starts and left it the for 10 mins. Turned it of and the on untill the engine started.

- Tried the spare key

- Moved the spare key close to the immobiliser-ring arround the keyhole, while using the main key to start.

- Much more that I cant even remember now.

 

Ive searhed the internet, but just cant find anything usable, so this is my last hope.

Im getting long hairs on my teeths from this problem and would really appreciate some help.

 

 

[dohnjoe]

when the engine shut down while driving, did the battery and oil warning lights light up?

I'm trying to assess if ignition barrel contacts are OK.

if yes, go to next test.

start the engine and wiggle the wires around immobilizer and see what happens.

tap on immobilizer box too.

the idea is this: if power or ground to immobilizer are cut out from a bad contact, then the engine dies.

if still nothing is found, the immobilizer itself is having an intermittent inside.

last thought: is there enough juice in the battery?

[TeflonTom]

It's not unheard of for the transponder reader coil to stop working, it's a circular ring that is on the end of the ignition barrel.

There's nothing that can be reset in the ecu to make the immo kick in, it's the immo box that gets matched to the ecu technically speaking.

[fusan]

when the engine shut down while driving, did the battery and oil warning lights light up?

I'm trying to assess if ignition barrel contacts are OK.

if yes, go to next test.

start the engine and wiggle the wires around immobilizer and see what happens.

tap on immobilizer box too.

the idea is this: if power or ground to immobilizer are cut out from a bad contact, then the engine dies.

if still nothing is found, the immobilizer itself is having an intermittent inside.

last thought: is there enough juice in the battery?

_

"when the engine shut down while driving, did the battery and oil warning lights light up?"

Yes, after the engine shut down, while driving, the oil warning light went lighten up. Just like they do when turning the key the first step, right before iginition.

 

"start the engine and wiggle the wires around immobilizer and see what happens. tap on immobilizer box too."

Ive tried to tap on the Immobilizer, removed the wires, gave them some Cleaner and plug them in again. Didnt help.

 

"last thought: is there enough juice in the battery?"

In the begining the battery was fine. Now after a few weeks, its getting low, but it was working fine during the tests.

[fusan]

It's not unheard of for the transponder reader coil to stop working, it's a circular ring that is on the end of the ignition barrel.

There's nothing that can be reset in the ecu to make the immo kick in, it's the immo box that gets matched to the ecu technically speaking.

 

Dont think its the transponder, cus the spae key doesent work either.

Your second point is a little more interesting because I hoped to retrieve the PIN code with VAG Tacho and reprogram the ECU to accept the

new key in VCDS. Do you think that this wouldnt work? (assuming that the Immo and ECU are working fine)

[dohnjoe]

Dont think its the transponder, cus the spae key doesent work either.

your logic is puzzling...

I don't think you understood what Tom is referring to.

or you don't know how an immobilizer works.

[TeflonTom]

Yes what he said ^^ the ring shaped sensor is a basically radio frequency Ariel, this reads the code from the transponder chip which is mounted inside the ignition key.

ok, on a felicia the key is programmed to the immo box ONLY, the key programming has no relation to the engine ecu at all, using vcds you can check if a key is programmed to the immo box using the measuring blocks on the immo unit (25), I can't remember which channel it is now but you get a 0 when it's not programmed to the immo unit and a 1 if it is programmed, the other important thing to remember is that all the keys have the same code on an immo1 system like this, if you check your key there is a letter F stamped on the key blade which is short for the German word fest (fixed) so it's a one code system that has no rolling coding.

like I said before, check the sensor ring on the igniton switch first before fiddling with vcds, they don't magically loose their coding for no reason unless you have done something wrong.

[fusan]

Ok, let me see if I got it right...

The key has a transponder. This transponder has a code that is being read through ring arround the ignitoin barrel to the immobiliser.

So the immobilizer contains the code that is being compared to the code in the key. Ok thought that the ECU had all the codes.

 

Anyway Ill check the ring arround the ignition to se of any wires got loose and clean them.

Ill be back

[fusan]

Well I have cleaned the connection wires and socket to the ring sensor arround the barrel. Everything semmed fine. So I messued the resistance

and it showed arround 16 oHm. Cant find anything about if that the correct resistance, anyone know this one?

Next stem is to check if the immobilizer contain a keycode at all.

Ill be back, again

[dohnjoe]

Well I have cleaned the connection wires and socket to the ring sensor arround the barrel. Everything semmed fine. So I messued the resistance

and it showed arround 16 oHm. Cant find anything about if that the correct resistance, anyone know this one?

couldn't find info on resistance either, but that looks ok.

it's a coil having some hundred turns.

it's more important to make contact properly.

so you know the drill - wiggle test.

[fusan]

couldn't find info on resistance either, but that looks ok.

it's a coil having some hundred turns.

it's more important to make contact properly.

so you know the drill - wiggle test.

 

With "wiggle test" I assume you mean to wiggle the Ring Sensor, right?

[fusan]

Today I have been wiggling the connections to and from the immo and the connection to the ring sensor. Could'nt really access

the ring sensor that well, but I will try again tomorrow.

I the mean time I threw VCDS on it to check if the immo had any key codes at all and this is what I found:

http://imgur.com/0i6FQYo

 

Does this look ok?

[TeflonTom]

Yes it looks normal, but it's an intermittent problem though so it's working at the moment, you need to check it again when it's not starting.

There is one thing you can check, right hand side of the engine bay to the right of the windscreen wiper motor where the charcoal canister is there is a 6 pin and 3 pin connector on a little F shaped bracket, make sure those contacts are clean and the plugs are secure particularly the 3 pin one, the yellow wire on the 3 pin one is the 'k' wire that connects the immo unit to the engine ecu

[fusan]

Yes it looks normal, but it's an intermittent problem though so it's working at the moment, you need to check it again when it's not starting.

There is one thing you can check, right hand side of the engine bay to the right of the windscreen wiper motor where the charcoal canister is there is a 6 pin and 3 pin connector on a little F shaped bracket, make sure those contacts are clean and the plugs are secure particularly the 3 pin one, the yellow wire on the 3 pin one is the 'k' wire that connects the immo unit to the engine ecu

 

Yes it looks normal, but it's an intermittent problem though so it's working at the moment, you need to check it again when it's not starting.

There is one thing you can check, right hand side of the engine bay to the right of the windscreen wiper motor where the charcoal canister is there is a 6 pin and 3 pin connector on a little F shaped bracket, make sure those contacts are clean and the plugs are secure particularly the 3 pin one, the yellow wire on the 3 pin one is the 'k' wire that connects the immo unit to the engine ecu

 

I got the impression that you assume the car is working. Just to make sure, its is still not starting. I would believe that if there were a problem

with the connection from the ECU, then VCDS would not be able to connect to the Immo Box and I wouldnt be able to get any data from the immobilizer, or am I way off here?

Anyway I wanted to try your suggestion anyway but Im not 100% sure what part you talk about. So I have taken a picture...

http://imgur.com/EzW17BN

Is it the connectors behind this?

[TeflonTom]

Yes that the connectors, you can see the yellow wire there too, even with the connector unplugged you can still connect to the immo box...

[fusan]

I see the yellow wire but i don't think the is connection to it on the other socket.

Here is a close up picture I took..

Sendt fra min GT-N7105 med Tapatalk

[TeflonTom]

Yeah sorry I'm being a div, the yellow wire is for the abs (if fitted) just realised I'd made a mistake when I was thinking about it earlier.

[adurer]

The so called 'K' wire is one of data transfer wires and runs from the 16-pin diagnostic socket to ECU. As mentioned it is not related with the immobilizer issue.

 

What TeflonTom meant is the so called 'W' wire (black/gray) that runs from pin 2 of the immobilizer to the above mentioned 3-wire connector, pin 1. It then goes as a green wire to ECU (pin 19 of the 52-pins socket). It is a valid point considering to check that circuit for good contact. In fact, if I were you, I would WD40 spray the entire ECU socket and the 3-pins one.

 

Keep us posted.

[fusan]

The so called 'K' wire is one of data transfer wires and runs from the 16-pin diagnostic socket to ECU. As mentioned it is not related with the immobilizer issue.

 

What TeflonTom meant is the so called 'W' wire (black/gray) that runs from pin 2 of the immobilizer to the above mentioned 3-wire connector, pin 1. It then goes as a green wire to ECU (pin 19 of the 52-pins socket). It is a valid point considering to check that circuit for good contact. In fact, if I were you, I would WD40 spray the entire ECU socket and the 3-pins one.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Today I have sprayed WD40 on the mentioned sockets and wires. Then I wiggled the wires to make sure the WD40 worked the best it could.

I havent measured the resistance on from the W wire to the ECU, but ill do that tomorrow.

 

One quick question in the meantime... Is it possible to bypass the immobilizer at all? Ive heard that you can connect the black + black/gray on the immobilizer, but I dont know if it is true. Anyone tried this?

Edited 30 March, 2014 by fusan

[TeflonTom]

Black and grey? No I don't think so, we don't discuss ways of defeating anti-theft systems on a public forum for obvious security reasons.

[adurer]

One quick question in the meantime... Is it possible to bypass the immobilizer at all? Ive heard that you can connect the black + black/gray on the immobilizer, but I dont know if it is true. Anyone tried this?

Why would you lend a hand to car thieves? Not to mention your theft insurance goes bye-bye too. I know you have that issue with car's immobilizer, but have patience and be persistent. We'll find what's faulty in the end. Felicias are quite reliable and simple to fix. Electronic parts don't give up by themselves, it's only due to moisture, dirt or corrosion they appear to malfunction.

 

So is it now starting? Fuel pump is buzzing?

[fusan]

Black and grey? No I don't think so, we don't discuss ways of defeating anti-theft systems on a public forum for obvious security reasons.

 

I know. I just wanted to know if it was possible in case there is nothing else that works.

Im running out of options here and its very fustrating. I feel like Ive tried everything, but nothing has unfoutunetly helped so far and the

car is just standing in the parking lot for a month now.

Well Ill try to check the resistance on th wires later. Hope that I find somthing.

[fusan]

I didnt measure anything today. Didnt have the time, but tomorrow I plan on doing that.

While Im at it, it would be nice to measure if the immo has power at all. Does anyone have a diagram/schematic over the cables to the Immo

so I know which cable is what?

[adurer]

 

[fusan]

 

 

...

 

Ohh nice. Thank you for the diagrams adurer, much appreciated! Ill get right on it today

I took the pipe to the fuelpump off the other day and noticed that every time I turned the key, it pumped some benzin out,

so I assume that it work.

Edited 1 April, 2014 by fusan