Too much cranking... - AKA Starting problems :-(

[dsr]

I flattened my battery last week trying to start the car - Octavia 2.0 PD 103KW.

 

The starting has been getting gradually worse over the last few months, in the olden petrol points and carburettor days I'd have said I'd flooded it.

 

If the car doesn't start pretty much with the first turn of the key it will need to be left for a few minutes then basically just get back in and crank it non stop until it starts - this can take up to a minute with the engine trying to catch and eventually getting quicker until it fires up.  Not so last week - it flattened the battery before it started.

 

I went out and bought a battery tester and charged the battery for 24 hours, the battery tester tells me the battery is good (it's not a brand new battery but it ain't that old either !!).  After charging, the car started a little hesitantly but still on first turn.

 

This morning, the engine started instantly.

 

I _think_ the problem is related to the preheating system.  When I changed the cam belt a few months ago, I replaced all of the glow plugs - two were burnt out so I was dead chuffed that I'd got to the bottom of my starting problems until a few days later when the car failed to start first go and needed the long crank :-(

 

I don't think the pre-heater is on for long enough - this morning the light was on for several seconds, most days it's on for barely a second.  I have seen mentioned that this could also be caused by the water temperature sensor being faulty or due to a cracked head but I'm not losing water and the temperature gauge appears to be operating nromally.

 

Is there anybody out there had this experience and if so what was it tracked down to ?

 

I'll be servicing the whining turbo shortly so it will be a good opportunity to try and get to the bottom of the starting issue while the covers are off.

 

P.S. Broke front O/S spring this morning to add insult to injury :-(

 

Regards,

 

 

 

 

D

[AP Automotive]

Has this issue occurred since cambelt change?

[nick74]

Highly unlikely to be the preheating system at this time of year I think. They don't need glowplugs for starting until the temperature gets well down into single figures. I've heard the crank sensor beginning to fail can cause this problem.

Very odd that your glowplug light stayed on for several seconds though. It shouldn't do, even in very cold weather.

Strangely in the 4+ years I've owned mine its done this same endless cranking/non-starting thing on two occasions, once in late 2010 and again at about easter time last year, but in the intervening time, and ever since, it's started absolutely perfectly every time.

[dsr]

Has this issue occurred since cambelt change?

Before and after :-(

 

It's just starting to get more frequent.

 

I've checked with the code reader and thers's never any codes - most recent code was p0234 which is why I'm going to service the turbo but this is the first time I've ever had a code in 5 years of ownership.

 

Once it's started, it continues to start flawlessly until it's been left to cool overnight.

[dsr]

Strangely in the 4+ years I've owned mine its done this same endless cranking/non-starting thing on two occasions, once in late 2010 and again at about easter time last year, but in the intervening time, and ever since, it's started absolutely perfectly every time.

 

You've probably condemned yourself now :-(

[nick74]

You've probably condemned yourself now :-(

Probably so yes!

A possibility is the tandem pump failing, or the in tank electric lift pump not working. Either can fail without generating any fault codes.

Also ISTR the temp sensor has two separate elements in it, so if one fails it can show the correct temp on the dash whilst reporting a completely incorrect temp to the ECU. Might explain the glowplug light staying on so long?

[Minimoke]

Hi

 

Recently had similar problem with my 2009 TDi PD 2.0.

 

Excessive cranking - either hot or cold. Rescued twice due to non start. No fault codes either time.

 

Eventually - after about 2 months of Rusian Roulette - a fault code miraculously appears. Camshaft sensor failure.

 

Garage fitted new camshat sensor and normal service resumed, but could not explain why no fault codes historically !

Edited 27 April, 2014 by Minimoke

[petrik25]

Same problem over here. 4 years 2.0 tdi PD engine with less then 35 000 miles on clock. Engine cranking cranking and when it starts, huge black smoke from back side, when doesn't recovery called. So far 3 times. They have started with adding fuel into intake and once even by jump starting even battery is fine. Checked it and it is on 83%. Problem occur only when cold engine.

As it is under extended warranty went to skoda for 2 days with investigation charge but no problem found. Took it to local vag specialist and after 10 min came back with fuel filter full of oil and tiny small shiny metal particle. Suggested that particles are from fuel pump when it's on way out. If it is one in tank it will cause to fail high pressure one in engine too. I called CCP and they agreed on to change high pressure one in engine.

Now have to wait a month, to check filter again if oil or metal appear again. If it does fuel pump in tank needs to go too.

Other options are to change engine temperature sensor and injectors or glow sparks or both.

If any one with similar problems give a shout how you solved this 2.0 starting problems or any other suggestions are welcome too

Edit: no fault codes at any point

Edited 15 May, 2014 by petrik25

[dsr]

Just an update - it happened again today for the first time since I posted.  It's been starting without problems every time sibce I last posted until today. No fault codes.  It did start on the first go but it was a very long crank.  No fault codes showing.

 

I'll try it again tomorrow and see what happens.

[nick74]

Just thought I'd post a quick update as mine had been starting increasingly lumpily when hot lately, and had also done its old trick of cranking for ages without firing when cold again last week. It took three goes to get it started. I got an independent VW specialist to look at it and the problem was......a failing tandem pump. With the tandem pump replaced its now starting perfectly again.

 

My tandem pump had apparently begun to do what they usually do when packing up, that is filling the fuel system with engine oil. The VW indy who looked at mine said the fuel filter element was one of the worst clogged up he'd ever seen, full of black oily gunge!

[dsr]

Just an update on this - it's started pretty much on the first go for the last few months then last week, it went back to a long crank.  I've not done anything with it because it's been working fine, still no fault codes.

[DanialA11]

Check fuel filter' if that's all fine I would say crank sensor as it happen to prev owner on my pd105 1.9