'service campaign' DQ200 DSG Oil Change,ECU update, Fabias in UK.

[Sittingbull]

23 hours ago, AwaoffSki said:

VW Group know how common with 2009-2012 DQ200's because there was a World Wide Recall and actions, extended warranties, and just a Service Campaign in Europe, '34F7',   So there will be figures on failures and cost to VW Group Globally.

 

Then there is 2013-2015 & '34H5' A software update due to failures, VW Group will know the cost of that, the Failures, who was to blame, 

who supplied the faulty parts or software. 

 

Then there is 2015 on and the TPI's now issued, and clutch failures, Software issues.   VW Group know about that.

 

.....................

**FLASH WHITE SPANNER WARNING.**

   DQ200 DSG fitted cars.

So that leaves the 2010/2011/ 2012 / 2013 or so DQ200 that were never part of the Service Campaign, '34F7' or '34H5' 

So no Oil Changed, no Software Updates, no Manufacturers Warranty or Extended Warranty 

& these get a 'FLASHING WHITE SPANNER'   Warning, and yet Facory Trained Main Dealer Technicians and even Skoda Customer Services 

appear to have no idea what that means.

 

How many are now getting White Spanner flashing warnings and failing will be the thing that needs numbers compiled on, 

or VW Group issuing TPI's over.

 

Excellent post.

 

I have no idea how to snip certain sections of posts, but the section beneath the cut line is 100% on the money.

 

SUK are proclaiming no knowledge of the Flashing White Spanner having anything to do with potential DSG problems. This stance does them no credit. There are plenty of owners coming across this issue, not only in the mk2 Fabia vRS.

 

They are then either not telling their retailer network (their phraseology rather than mine) of the flashing white spanner and the possibility it is transmission related, which is poor stuff, or they are telling them but also advising the retailer network to advise the symbol is inspection service related. Which may be worse.

 

We spoke to two main dealerships, Ingrams Skoda in Ayr and Parks Skoda in Hamilton. Both followed the correct procedures as laid down by SUK in that the Service receptionists took the details of the car and the specific problem, checked the system to confirm vehicle identity, and then sought the answer from trained technicians. At both main dealerships, the same answer was given, the symbol was inspection service and symbol could only be reset by main dealers.

 

That tells me the dealerships have not been informed.

 

What then if I extend some benefit of the doubt to SUK? What if these cases are so new that they have been caught on the hop?

 

Well, after our case specifically they can no longer use that excuse. One outcome of our case should be that SUK inform their retailers of their findings, in order that their dealership network are able to provide the correct information at first contact with the vehicle owners.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

Seagoat, I'm happy with the contributions I've made on the topic. Given we've just been on the receiving end of a £3200 bill and 8 weeks of hassle, I think I've done well to restrict my asides to mentions of Lillee and Cilla Black. If I had said exactly how I felt using colourful language the posts would have been removed. This issue is too important for owners for the information not to be shared.

 

I will attempt to put up a Janet and John version if that helps.

 

[Ootohere]

 

[Ootohere]

^^^ So he has some issues.....

As to how he actually gets so poor fuel consumption, that is an odd one.  

11 MPG is what you get showing sitting with the engine running and not driving IME, and the 19 mph at around lose of licence speeds (100 mph plus) for a good few miles. 

say the likes of from the Forth Crossing to the Friarton Bridge, i would imagine.... If anyone was to do that. & that might just use 4.456 litres each 22 miles!

@ 70 MPH all the way & 10 miles to the litre easily would be the fuel consumption, with a car not fully loaded.

 

 

Edited 10 April, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[SeaGoat]

Here Is An Update With My Skoda Fabia VRS + POV drive!

 

5 Things I Love About My 180 BHP Skoda Fabia VRS

 

Seeing the way that guy thrashes his 2nd hand CAVE down a country lane, his awful MPG figures doesn't really come as much of a surprise.

[Ootohere]

Many drive that way and get 25mpg with a twincharger. 

As to the other figures there are those that do track days and still get more than he said he was getting.

 

Loads of people drive all kinds of cars like that. 

[SeaGoat]

Yes, I'm sure.

Funnily enough, the guy seems much happier with his 2nd hand CAVE vRS in those posts.

 

[Ootohere]

Some might think a sandwich short of a picnic.   

There is a member that was on Briskoda that posted vids that were as strange.  IMO.

(watching them earns them money helping them to buy or 'rent' their 'Better / faster Audi's and BMW's that they then tune badly as well....)

 

Edited 11 April, 2018 by AwaoffSki

[Nortonpuch]

Looks like SUK will chat further with the dealer on Tuesday next week, I will talk to the dealer tomorrow. The matched contribution is a scam - surprised why no one has not worked it out yet. The starting point of any any repair has to be 50%, are SUK really that daft, maybe they should take maths lessons from Dacia.  

[Nortonpuch]

They don't get off that lightly, with a gesture of goodwill that was pathetic, here is my next step. Something tells me that the DVSA have not made the right decision as they were not presented with the facts. Even in Egypt Skoda rolled over even after 80 complaints. 

 

Good afternoon,

 

I am the owner of a Skoda Fabia 105HP DSG that is fitted with a DSG 7 speed DQ200 gearbox which has failed. This car has been owned by me since new Oct 20112, has full service history. In march this year the gearbox control unit failed and suddenly dropped from 7^th gear to 3^rd gear, with engine warning lights on. Thankfully I had not yet joined the A34 just north of Winchester as had this happened on that stretch or road a vehicle would have hit me in the rear as the deceleration was so sudden. A car on motorway that can change from 7^th to 3^rd with no operator input is dangerous no matter which way you look at it.

 

I have been pointed to the following article and would like to receive FOI about this decision as I feel that the correct decision has not been made, in other parts of the world, ie Australia, China, France it has been considered a safety issue.

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vw-uk-why-we-dont-need-dsg-recall

 

There are many other sites were this issue has occurred, see below, I would imagine that there are similar VW and Seat issues as well, being VAG group.

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/315115-service-campaign-dq200-dsg-oil-changeecu-update-fabias-in-uk/

 

Therefore iaw with the government advice on FOI, which I have read, I request the following information from your department as to why as safety recall was not implemented.  

 

1.       DVSA notes on how they come to the decision that the mechatronic unit failure cannot be a safety issue. The uncontrolled deceleration and the fact it is scary when it happens at 70mph would be enough to make it a safety issue.

2.       The relevant unique numbers, but not the detail they contain, of the ISO 26262 ASIL’s that Skoda / VAG submitted to your engineers to base their decision on.

3.       The results of any testing that DVSA engineers have completed themselves or requested of Skoda / VAG to make the deceiosn they came to.

 

Awaiting your reply.

[Nortonpuch]

They replied hiding behind some section the FOI act, that when I pointed out no one has or is being prosecuted, there is currently no testing being done by DVSA to which anyone is being or liable to be prosecuted then they are now going to review the request - I can't believe that the DVSA staff mentioned these sections in a reply without even reading them themselves, shocking.  

 

Strangely, they say that because the engine is running the driver still has control of direction and brakes, and thus not a safety issue I pointed out the the car decelerates rapidly with no braking lights being lit, the dashboard lights up with numerous warnings which take time to comprehend,  An elderly driver may take some to time understand what has just happened. 

 

I also pointed out that if not one of their engineers had asked SUK / VAG 'does the brake light operate when the car decelerates in a fault condition' then they have failed to do their job. Another question was asked that if other reputable countries have found this to be a safety issue then why has the DVSA confidently found otherwise.

 

As an engineer, I believe the DQ200 gearbox to be so poor when compared to the other versions of the DSG gearbox it should be either made more reliable or withdrawn from use. When the units get to 80K miles like mine they will drop like flies if they haven't already done so. 

 

A DQ200 failure on the A34 south of the M40 does not bare thinking about, best of luck if it does. 

 

I don't think that the serial numbers of the ASIL's and any other paperwork titles will be forthcoming. 

[Ootohere]

Engine running with no drive means nothing when in an outside lane of a dual carriageway or motorway, pulling from a slip road on to those or even a single carriageway either, 

or many other circumstances.

The DVSA will only bother about that though if ever someone is killed maybe and they are mentioned in a Coroners Court along with the VW Group, 

or if they are in a Court of law being prosecuted.   They are good at coming up with answers that are not to the questions being asked.

Edited 8 September, 2018 by Offski

[Nortonpuch]

Well some of you may have wondered how the FOI action got on, I appealed the decision not to tell me anything and had them review it. It seems that the DQ200 issue continues and that a 'not quite a safety recall'' was issued in 2014. 

 

These engineers have your lives in their hands - they need sacking, See below. Yes, the gearbox does enter freewheel and coast, but when the system with a lit up dash decides it is fault it puts the box straight into limp mode. They can't see that, work it out or even ask the question of VAG 'What happens next, does just roll to a stop? 

 

I suggest that we all fill in this link and get Colin Toy to take notice - 

 

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect

 

This is the reply from SUK, they still don't understand fully what happens. Does anyone know what the dealer only recall was for and what VIN it applies to?

 

From: Toy, Colin [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: 20 November 2018 14:43
To: ash
Subject: RE: FOI Request IA/01925/18

 

Dear Mr Cutler,

 

I have been passed your latest correspondence with our Public liaisons officer regarding your previous FOI request IA/01925/18. I note the case has been closed and the information requested was responded to previously.

 

To clarify the points raised in your Email 13/11/2018.

 

There are some instances where a safety issue may exist which does not meet the definition of a safety defect as defined by the Codes of Practice. DVSA supports these issues by the use of a “non-coded action”.  A non-coded action is defined as “a proactive and proportionate action registered with DVSA, which falls outside the scope of a safety recall”. The action that relates to your previous correspondence is, as mentioned, an NCA (Non Coded Action) these are not published in the same way as a safety recall. The NCA is action short of a safety recall but determined to be clearly in the customer interest to have the remedial action carried out. The action is an initiative which has been proposed by a manufacture for a known defect. The process is very similar to a safety recall but is not mandatory, the manufacture can still apply for DVLA data to contact customers by letter to arrange the work to be undertaken.

 

The NCA/2014/015 (Skoda Ref; 34F7) that your case refers to has been processed and the manufacture is continuing to support this action to resolve an issue with the mechatronics in these gearboxes. If you have not received any correspondence related to this action I would strongly advise you contact the manufacture for further guidance and advise. I have listed their contact details below for your assistance;

 

Customer service: 0333 003 7504

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk

 

I trust this to be of assistance to you.

 

Kind Regards

Colin Toy | Vehicle Defect Investigation & Market Surveillance Engineer
Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency | Wilson Way, Redruth, TR15 3RP
Phone: 03001239000 Mobile: 07815 876106

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/
Incorporating the Driving Standards Agency and Vehicle and Operator Services Agency. 
  
Find out more about government services at www.gov.uk/vosa

[SeaGoat]

23 hours ago, Nortonpuch said:

[SNIP]

I suggest that we all fill in this link and get Colin Toy to take notice - 

 

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect

[SNIP]

 

I'm not sure that this would be anything more than a "nuisance" to the DVSA unless people reporting a "serious defect" could call on either personal experience or a detailed understanding of the issue.

[Nortonpuch]

From my appeal of the initial decision that they tried to hide behind, they have done no testing themselves and have taken VAG's word on the defect. The issue is not so much the failure but how the system recovers when the failure happens at speed, it selects limp home mode to quickly with the car at to high a speed - you will find that your seat belt will restrain you when this happens, and the engine tries to escape through the bonnet as it tries to shed the revs in 3rd gear, when this happens you have no brake lights applied unless you quickly put your foot on the brake, on the roads around here in Hampshire - too late you will  most probably be hit by something as it is known that there are no cameras on the main through routes, M3, M27 and A34. At times on the A34, if it were to fail you can often choose the lorry behind you in the right hand lane or cut to the nearside with a car that has the choice of slowing  or really slowing, and choose that lorry - they tend to have a habit of hitting cars in the rear around here.  

 

As an ex-trials and independent acceptance engineer myself, DVSA's engineers have not asked any questions on this,  just blindly accepted VAG's offerings, not even witnessing or asking for any testing, demonstrations or a simulation.  So yes, the car does freewheel for a while, not a problem at 30mph, what about 70mph? what speed does the system automatically drop into 3rd gear? do the brake lights operate independently when this happens? you have told us what your intentions are, can you show us the testing you have done to support this - where is the evidence?  I don't think any of these questions were ever asked by DVSA, if they had I think the situation with the DQ200 would be different, a 'not quite a safety recall' would be have been a safety recall. 

 

With the information I have from DVSA, that above is not all of it, it seems that SUK are not the brightest either, I will going back to them. I have no service recall stickers in the spare well, nothing on any of the invoices, or the service book to say that they were done. The car was made in Sept 2012 bought from new and serviced by the supplying dealer, therefore it should have mineral in it, which itself was subject to having a corresponding  software update that should have been completed, but hasn't. Clearly from the DVSA information I have, a DQ200 equipped car made until the software service recall was issued in 2014 should have at least one sticker, some will have two. 

 

The car sits on my drive, owes me nothing and is costing nothing, if they think I will be going quietly, then they are very mistakenly wrong. When they ask about my background and what I do for a living, they may suddenly change their minds and look at it more closely. Do I want the car repaired, yes so I can get it off my drive, but I want everyone's dodgy DQ200 box repaired with VAG taking the hit, they know it's coming, just needs someone to shake the tree hard enough. 

 

So fill in the link, and when there is enough reports, there will be reporting trigger level, no doubt Colin's boss will hear about, and then his boss's boss, and then maybe they will be forced into doing something, like taking charge and asking the awkward questions of VAG. With VAG's design and engineering staff it would not be much of a challenge, these are the ones that designed a car with a key fob with a blade key and no hole in the car to put it in!! if the fob battery fails then you have to call out recovery to come out with a spare key fob battery, and driver settings that can only be applied when the engine is at full operating temperature. The VW we have was two years old and on the market for 3 years at the time, and the staff and tech's at the local dealer did not even know this was the case - they tried to convince me the car 'can only operate like that, it can't do both' when I picked it up from a service.   

 

Fill in the form, it the DQ200 fails at speed or on bend, it is a risk to safety. 

[Ootohere]

They 'VW' convinced the DVSA (VOSA) DfT that a 'Recall' was not necessary and they could handle it with a Service Campaign'.

Obviously there was a Global / World Wide Recall but Europe is not in the world when the DVSA / DfT and VW are involved.

http://autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/vw-uk-why-we-dont-need-dsg-recall

 

Volkswagen recall_ 2.5 million cars affected _ Auto Express.mhtml

Volkswagen recall cars worldwide over faulty gearbox and light fuses _ Daily Mail Online.mhtml

Edited 28 November, 2018 by Offski

[Nortonpuch]

Yes, and I asked what supporting documentation titles they supplied to DVSA to support their (VAG) decision that they could manage this under a service recall campaign, seems nothing was produced as evidence to DVSA, and they asked no questions. My FOI was initially rejected by them claiming under two clauses that they did not need to release any information, one clause was regarding a fault or condition which affects safety where a person or organisation has, or is facing prosecution, the other clause was that testing or investigation is ongoing which could lead to the prosecution of a person or organisation - they did not even think this through!!

 

I appealed this this and had it reviewed with the argument, that if the above clauses were to be used to prevent the release of information, this then is clearly a safety issue and subject to a safety recall, the FOI department manager agreed and backed down, I then had further information sent to me by the legal team at DVSA with dates and the intentions of VAG, but not document titles or ASIL's numbers of any testing that had taking place or had been presented to DVSA.  

[Ootohere]

I posted a Video of an interview with the CEO of SEAT from Sky News back in 2014 i think where he was assuring anyone concerned that 'all cars would be recalled for a service campaign' with letters going to all owners.

He meant 'Registered Keepers' i would assume, and not all those were contacted, and there were even Sales Cars at Main Dealerships sold as Approved Cars by Audi, VW. SEAT and Skoda that did not have the Service Campaign Carried out because the cars were not being serviced before sale.

 

EDIT, 

Doh, that was in the first page of this thread i posted the SEAT CEO appearance on Sky.  

 

 

& This was back then as well..

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/315119-roomster-dsg-200-dq200-skoda-service-campaign-action-required-or-not

 

Edited 28 November, 2018 by Offski

[Sittingbull]

On 27/11/2018 at 21:02, Nortonpuch said:

Well some of you may have wondered how the FOI action got on, I appealed the decision not to tell me anything and had them review it. It seems that the DQ200 issue continues and that a 'not quite a safety recall'' was issued in 2014. 

 

These engineers have your lives in their hands - they need sacking, See below. Yes, the gearbox does enter freewheel and coast, but when the system with a lit up dash decides it is fault it puts the box straight into limp mode. They can't see that, work it out or even ask the question of VAG 'What happens next, does just roll to a stop? 

 

I suggest that we all fill in this link and get Colin Toy to take notice - 

 

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect

 

This is the reply from SUK, they still don't understand fully what happens. Does anyone know what the dealer only recall was for and what VIN it applies to?

 

From: Toy, Colin [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: 20 November 2018 14:43
To: ash
Subject: RE: FOI Request IA/01925/18

 

Dear Mr Cutler,

 

I have been passed your latest correspondence with our Public liaisons officer regarding your previous FOI request IA/01925/18. I note the case has been closed and the information requested was responded to previously.

 

To clarify the points raised in your Email 13/11/2018.

 

There are some instances where a safety issue may exist which does not meet the definition of a safety defect as defined by the Codes of Practice. DVSA supports these issues by the use of a “non-coded action”.  A non-coded action is defined as “a proactive and proportionate action registered with DVSA, which falls outside the scope of a safety recall”. The action that relates to your previous correspondence is, as mentioned, an NCA (Non Coded Action) these are not published in the same way as a safety recall. The NCA is action short of a safety recall but determined to be clearly in the customer interest to have the remedial action carried out. The action is an initiative which has been proposed by a manufacture for a known defect. The process is very similar to a safety recall but is not mandatory, the manufacture can still apply for DVLA data to contact customers by letter to arrange the work to be undertaken.

 

The NCA/2014/015 (Skoda Ref; 34F7) that your case refers to has been processed and the manufacture is continuing to support this action to resolve an issue with the mechatronics in these gearboxes. If you have not received any correspondence related to this action I would strongly advise you contact the manufacture for further guidance and advise. I have listed their contact details below for your assistance;

 

Customer service: 0333 003 7504

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk

 

I trust this to be of assistance to you.

 

Kind Regards

Colin Toy | Vehicle Defect Investigation & Market Surveillance Engineer
Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency | Wilson Way, Redruth, TR15 3RP
Phone: 03001239000 Mobile: 07815 876106

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/
Incorporating the Driving Standards Agency and Vehicle and Operator Services Agency. 
  
Find out more about government services at www.gov.uk/vosa

 

Yes, this has made up my mind, thanks for sharing. I will also email this chap and let him know of our personal experience when ours failed.

 

It's incredible that our motoring authorities allowed them to fall into the sector that they did, falling just short of an official recall. A cynic might suggest that it's no surprise, as an official recall would mean a monster bill for VAG.

 

So, it begs the question, what price on someone's life? What does it take for them to upgrade the status?

[Lee]

So the gearbox has started to exhibit very snatchy & unsmooth engagement at low speed/revs in both 1st and reverse, with the latter being much more noticeable & harsh. Clearly not happy.

 

It's going to Skoda next week for diagnosis & rectification but early indicators point to a failing/faulty mechatronics unit and/or clutch pack. Luckily the All Component Cover Extended Warranty will take care of most of, if not all, costs.

 

Will report back for info.

[Ootohere]

What age is it and has it needed & had '34F7' carried out or '34H5' if a 2013/2014 DQ200 ?

 

Hopefully 'Clutch Packs' is covered under the Warranty, they should be... 'Some say they are not as in Skoda Main Dealer Service Desk Staff that might or might not have experience of computers and phones, but some Master Techs, Techs or Fitters also say that.

Luckily they are not a Warranty Manager or the person that decides if All Parts covers 'Clutch Packs' failing.

Edited 24 January, 2019 by Skoffski

[Lee]

17 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

What age is it and has it needed & had '34F7' carried out or '34H5' if a 2013/2014 DQ200 ?

 

Hopefully 'Clutch Packs' is covered under the Warranty, they should be... 'Some say they are not as in Skoda Main Dealer Service Desk Staff that might or might not have experience of computers and phones, but some Master Techs, Techs or Fitters also say that.

Luckily they are not a Warranty Manager or the person that decides if All Parts covers 'Clutch Packs' failing.

 

Car is late-2011 model (with CAVE engine but that is working fine!) and 34F7 was not required as I enquired with Skoda Customer Services when the Service Campaign first arose. Less than 43k miles and driven, ahem, "briskly" but never abused.

[Ootohere]

Good. 

So no Warranty Manager should be saying 'Known Issues'  and if there was 'known issues'  Skoda / VW and the Warranty provider are they people that knew.

 

?

Is the VIN still coming up as no Service Campaign / Recall action outstanding?

http://skoda-auto.com/services/recall-actions

 

Edited 24 January, 2019 by Skoffski

[Lee]

2 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

Good. 

So no Warranty Manager should be saying 'Know Issues'  and if there was 'know issues'  Skoda / VW and the Warranty provider are they people that knew.

 

?

Is the VIN still coming up as no Service Campaign / Recall action outstanding?

http://skoda-auto.com/services/recall-actions

 

 

" Dear customer,
   No relevant recall campaigns have been launched by ŠKODA for the entered VIN XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"

[Nortonpuch]

On 24/01/2019 at 10:37, Lee said:

Car is late-2011 model (with CAVE engine but that is working fine!) and 34F7 was not required as I enquired with Skoda Customer Services when the Service Campaign first arose. Less than 43k miles and driven, ahem, "briskly" but never abused.

 

It is about time we did not put up with this crap from SUK, I have an email from Kate Laws at SUK, specifically saying that all DSG DQ200 prior to May 2012 will need the first service recall, mine did not as it was made in Summer 2012. I then asked if that was so then it needed the second service recall, and Kate said not it did not, as it had the mineral oil installed at the factory during build - I smell a rat here, if the software update was known about in 2012 for the mineral oil at the time for the first service recall, then why did it take 2 years to release it as a service recall in 2014, I pointed this out and guess what - it fell on deaf ears with no reason as to why it did not need the second service recall. 

 

If the truth be known, SUK haven't a clue of what car has or was built with what oil in it. 

 

It was also pointed out to me early on in the contact with SUK that I did not take out the extended warranty. I pointed out that I was sent nothing to offer me any either with price and or details about it like I was for my VW Golf, 'We don't contact customers regarding extended warranty like VW do'' I have the emails stating this, so yet even more shocking customer care from SUK - buy another, not a flipping chance when a customer that buys new, has a car with FDSH and gets treated like this do they honestly think I will buy a Skoda again. 

 

As for DVSA, our safety in their hands, what a shambles, they accepted that it was not quite a safety issue as Skoda said they could recover the situation with service recalls, it is quite clear that they can't so now DVSA should make it a safety recall to cover the holes in the process that SUK assured DVSA would work by using service recall method, cars have been missed, and by Skoda's own admission, these cars are unsafe!!

 

The one bit that DVSA & SUK have missed in all this is that despite the gearbox failure being safe in itself, the cars automatic recovery to limp mode is far from safe. 

 

Kate Laws and SUK have closed the case their end, so now it has to gone watchdog for their comment. 

[Ootohere]

Skoda UK or Skoda in the EU have not done Service Campaigns on all DQ200 DSG built before May 2012 and not all needed it according to them.

They did '34F7' on some CTHE 2012 and 2013 cars built after October 2012.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/425419-dsg-gearbox/?page=3

 

Edited 26 January, 2019 by Skoffski