between an auto, a DSG and a tiptronic gearbox?

Was talking to my dad tonight and trying to make him change his BMW for a Skoda.

Can't he says - no automatic (he is and old fart!!) B*****ks I say.

So I'm trying to prove him wrong, and download the New Octy brouchures. The price list mentions a 2.0 FSI 150bhp Tiptronic (petrol) or a 2.0TDI DSG 140bhp diesel. The brouchure explains the DSG and implies it includes the tiptronic.

I think I understand what the dsg gives, but what does the tipronic on its own give, and how does it compare to a "normal" auto?

Feel free to flame me and point me in the direction of a FAQ. I did do a search, but the results seemed mainly about Superbs.

TIA

Steve

Tiptronic is basically a normal auto box, but you can flick the gear lever to the side and control the gears manually if you so desire, otherwise jus stick it in drive and hey presto its an auto again.

DSG has 2 clutches and pre-selects the next gear it thinks you will be needing in order to achieve quicker gear changes.

The main difference that I can see is that the tiptronic auto box has a torque converter and the DSG box doesn't. And the twin-clutch system, as already mentioned.

I've always found with tiptronic boxes that you get bored playing with the 'gears' and just leave it in Drive. An auto box will nearly always change up or down for you anyway. Even if you're in tiptronic mode, they usually don't let you redline, they just change up anyway.

So, tiptronic = pretty much a standard auto box. DSG = manual gearbox without the clutch pedal

That's probably more confusing than no information at all, but hey

Steve

That's probably more confusing than no information at all' date=' but hey

Steve[/quote']

No, that's great. And the best part is, I get to tell my dad he's wrong!!

Thanks all.

DSG = manual gearbox without the clutch pedal

Except that is does have a fully automatic mode as well; you don't have to select gears manually at all.

between an auto' date=' a DSG and a tiptronic gearbox?

Was talking to my dad tonight and trying to make him change his BMW for a Skoda.

Can't he says - no automatic (he is and old fart!!) B*****ks I say.

So I'm trying to prove him wrong, and download the New Octy brouchures. The price list mentions a 2.0 FSI 150bhp Tiptronic (petrol) or a 2.0TDI DSG 140bhp diesel. The brouchure explains the DSG and implies it includes the tiptronic.

I think I understand what the dsg gives, but what does the tipronic on its own give, and how does it compare to a "normal" auto?

Feel free to flame me and point me in the direction of a FAQ. I did do a search, but the results seemed mainly about Superbs.

TIA

Steve[/quote']

Originally my main reason for trading in old vRS for new 2.0FSI was to go automatic because the vRS gearbox is "lumpy". But the new 6 speed box is fine so I saved the money!

My dealer almost warned me off the tiptronic for the 2.0FSI - reckoned it damped the performance too much. The DSG wasn't then available on petrol engines.

The DSG apparently gives an instant change because it has two separate "clutches" [not really clutches] with the next one always engaged and ready for the next change - that's how it was un-technically explained to me anyway!

Tiptronic can be used as fully automatic, or manual [but clutchless] gear changing [sequential I believe]. Get your dad to test drive a 2.0 FSI with the new 6 speed box - he might be surprised - I was. Unless of course he wants to wait for the new vRS and nearly 200 bhp!!!

I'm pretty sure that a Tiptronic box doesn't have a torque converter.

As i understand it (but I could be completely wrong):-

It has a centrifugal clutch to handle starting off from stationary (and stopping again). Gearchanges on the move are just like a manual box, but the electronics control the gear selection, clutch, and throttle to achieve a smooth change.

The difference between a Tiptronic box and a DSG box is that the Tiptronic will reduce power briefly while the transmission is in "neutral" between gears; the DSG box doesn't need to because the next gear is already engaged - it just disengages one clutch while engaging the other.

I'm pretty sure that a Tiptronic box doesn't have a torque converter.

As i understand it (but I could be completely wrong):-

It has a centrifugal clutch to handle starting off from stationary (and stopping again). Gearchanges on the move are just like a manual box' date=' but the electronics control the gear selection, clutch, and throttle to achieve a smooth change.

The difference between a Tiptronic box and a DSG box is that the Tiptronic will reduce power briefly while the transmission is in "neutral" between gears; the DSG box doesn't need to because the next gear is already engaged - it just disengages one clutch while engaging the other.[/quote']

That sounds like the way I heard it. But I think [not sure] the tiptronic has another position for the selector lever that leaves it in a good old lazy full auto mode.

As far as I understand it, Tiptronic is based on an auto box, with the option to change gear sequentially yourself if you're in the mood.

DSG is based on a manual box, so there's no torque converter, no slip and, most crucially, no loss in performance over a manual. It's a bit weird to begin with, but once you're used to it it's great. Have to say though that, except for very rare occasions, I just leave it in 'D' and drive it like a normal auto.

As far as I understand it' date=' Tiptronic is based on an auto box, with the option to change gear sequentially yourself if you're in the mood.

DSG is based on a manual box, so there's no torque converter, no slip and, most crucially, no loss in performance over a manual. It's a bit weird to begin with, but once you're used to it it's great. Have to say though that, except for very rare occasions, I just leave it in 'D' and drive it like a normal auto.[/quote']

I think you've hit the nail on the head.

DSG is based on a manual box, so there's no torque converter, no slip and, most crucially, no loss in performance over a manual. I

Wonderful how technolgy reinvents itself.

In the mid 60s my father had a Ford Cortina Mk2 with a Hobbs automatic box. It was a dry plate clutch box with full manual override.

Drove like a dream and changed gear at lightening speed. The drop from fourth to third at round about 50mph when it was needed for overtaking was spectacular.

A Lotus, with the Cortina engine and a Hobbs box was a regular on the racing circuits.

Pity it took another 40 odd years for the technology to become mainstream.

Rumour has it that Ford were about to adopt it as the standard box on all Cortinas when Borg Warner, who had supplied the old slush pump auto boxes, realised that it would put them out of business and made Ford an offer for auto gearboxes that they could not refuse.

Get your dad to test drive a 2.0 FSI with the new 6 speed box - he might be surprised - I was. Unless of course he wants to wait for the new vRS and nearly 200 bhp!!!

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

72 year old in vRS :eek:

Perhaps not!!

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

72 year old in vRS :eek:

Perhaps not!!

You just buy him brown pants.

You just buy him brown pants.

You just buy him brown pants.

It's not him I'm worried about!!

It's not him I'm worried about!!

Mind - there is the inheritence to think of

It's not him I'm worried about!!

All right - get a load wholesale!

One thing to note is the difference between a traditional torque convertor auto and a DSG when pulling away from rest. With a torque convertor you get a surge away from the line as the convertor does its stuff, then the acceleration tails off. With a DSG (at least combined with the 140bhp TDi diesel) the step-off is fairly lethargic, since it's a conventional clutch and won't let you rev up like a manual. Then you hit 2,000 rpm and the boost comes in - wey-hey! Wheelspin in 2nd and 3rd on a dry road if you give it full welly.

I guess you'll get used to the DSG after a bit (I'm planning to have one on my next Octavia), but it is a *very* different experience. I read somewhere that VW/Audi group do not intend to offer the DSG in the US as drivers there like (and expect) the surge off the line a torque convertor gives you.

I guess you'll get used to the DSG after a bit (I'm planning to have one on my next Octavia), but it is a *very* different experience. I read somewhere that VW/Audi group do not intend to offer the DSG in the US as drivers there like (and expect) the surge off the line a torque convertor gives you.

VW in USA already offer the DSG in the Audi TT. The Motor Press here are all excited by the DSG box coming in on the new Passat and Jetta. Must say I drove the Octy 2 with 2.0 Tdi and DSG box and found it to be a nice combination.

One thing to bear in mind is that generally (excluding New York!) most US drivers are much less intense than in the UK. For example pulling away from traffic lights is generally a leasurely activity - in the UK following cars would be in your trunk (Boot) well before most US drivers have thought about moving off. I have found few US drivers who would consider driving in the UK - no patience, too "go, go, go" and poor road manners are the usual complaints from US friends getting back from UK. I must admit they are quite right and there seems to be a barely repressed rageaholic in most UK drivers. Mind you, the roads are so crowded, the parking spaces so small and generally everything just seems more hassle in the UK. I am coming back in November and know I will find it hard to adjust - don't really want to - life is too short to get uptight driving.

I guess you'll get used to the DSG after a bit (I'm planning to have one on my next Octavia), but it is a *very* different experience. I read somewhere that VW/Audi group do not intend to offer the DSG in the US as drivers there like (and expect) the surge off the line a torque convertor gives you.

VW in USA already offer the DSG in the Audi TT. The Motor Press here are all excited by the DSG box coming in on the new Passat and Jetta. Must say I drove the Octy 2 with 2.0 Tdi and DSG box and found it to be a nice combination.

One thing to bear in mind is that generally (excluding New York!) most US drivers are much less intense than in the UK. For example pulling away from traffic lights is generally a leasurely activity - in the UK following cars would be in your trunk (Boot) well before most US drivers have thought about moving off. I have found few US drivers who would consider driving in the UK - no patience' date=' too "go, go, go" and poor road manners are the usual complaints from US friends getting back from UK. I must admit they are quite right and there seems to be a barely repressed rageaholic in most UK drivers. Mind you, the roads are so crowded, the parking spaces so small and generally everything just seems more hassle in the UK. I am coming back in November and know I will find it hard to adjust - don't really want to - life is too short to get uptight driving.[/quote']

Ednmra

I totally agree. Being a US railfan I drive over 3000 miles a year in the USA. The only parts I've seen that resembles the UK is Miami, [i-95], up to about West Palm Beach, and the beltway around Washington DC. The Miami bit is like the North Circular on drugs.

As all rental cars are autos [don't know what kind] I tend to come home saying that my "next" motor will be auto - but it wears off! However, anyone who has driven there, even in the more crowded "east", realises that we are a/ living in a rip-off dump, b/ our town councils and national authorities seem to look on cars as some kind of disease to be rid of, and c/ a sizeable proportion of our drivers should be locked up, probably in a loony bin.

The point Expatman makes about leaving the lights is so true. However gently I go, in whatever crap rental car, I still seem to leave everyone behind. That is, till you get onto the interstates and all the giant Mack and Peterbuilt trucks come past you at 85 mph!