http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/motorsport/26482236

What are your thoughts?

I like that they have to change car part way as the battery won't last the full hour race. Maybe this will inspire development of different technology so that they will and this technology will trickle down into cars for Joe Public.

I'm getting a bit fed up with this suggestion that there will suddenly be a quantum leap jump in the energy density of accumulators just because electric cars burn their fuel 100 miles from the vehicle.

Not being a scientist: Are you suggesting that just because the car is 'clean' the energy isn't?

If so, I wholeheartedly agree with you. It's one of the biggest 'myths' about electric cars that many seem to bury their heads in the sand about.

If not, what are you saying?

Another Formula E thread here:  http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/327590-formula-e/

 

I like the fact it's new and breaking boundaries.

F1 I find terminally boring.

Not being a scientist: Are you suggesting that just because the car is 'clean' the energy isn't?

If so, I wholeheartedly agree with you. It's one of the biggest 'myths' about electric cars that many seem to bury their heads in the sand about.

If not, what are you saying?

I'm flat out saying that just because the car is clean at point of use doesn't mean that the energy is.

 

I'm also saying that a new technology is needed to allow accumulators (not batteries) to store at least 10x more kWh per kg than present technologies can manage if electricity is to become actually competitive with hydrocarbon engines in usability (anything performance related except emissions, where power stations are only judged on CO2, and not NOx, sulphur, particulates...).

 

For instance, in their recent "test" of a Tesla, Evo managed 310 miles without "range anxiety", but did it over 2 days and refuelled twice, where (ok 14 gallon tank) my old Xantia 1.9TD would have gone there and back again on a single tank.

There is no "myth" about where the fuel for electric cars comes from and causes pollution.

 

The point is it's clean at the point of use.

So the electric is being made (from a choice of sources)  away from population centres so they are not breathing it in.

 

Given the choice of having a car pumping out fumes right outside my house or child's school, or 100 miles away I know what I'd prefer.

 

Look up EU clean air targets for cities, which they will be fining us for.

So there is a financial reason too, not just a local pollution issue.

There is no "myth" about where the fuel for electric cars comes from and causes pollution.

The point is it's clean at the point of use.

So the electric is being made (from a choice of sources) away from population centres so they are not breathing it in.

Given the choice of having a car pumping out fumes right outside my house or child's school, or 100 miles away I know what I'd prefer.

Look up EU clean air targets for cities, which they will be fining us for.

So there is a financial reason too, not just a local pollution issue.

Plus the electric is also cheaper than petrol or diesel, and with a lot of charging stations popping up even out here in Wales it really does make a lot of sense!

Electric is only cheaper if on the right tarrifs, they need to be charged at night to make use of cheaper electric. Plus if they go large scale it will push up the price of electric.

The charging stations are currently free, however, that will only last so long.

Sat watching Formula E right now! It seems to be rather good, lots of action with a complex circuit, the noise isn't the same but I quite like it! Briskoda Formula E trip anyone?

Hmm maybe the planned E Prix in Battersea on the 27th June 2015

Electric is only cheaper if on the right tarrifs, they need to be charged at night to make use of cheaper electric. Plus if they go large scale it will push up the price of electric.

The charging stations are currently free, however, that will only last so long.

 

This seems overly negative.

It makes sense for many users to charge at night because they don't do loads of miles during the day.

This is also when there is low demand and makes a lot of sense.

 

Even charged at peak times it used to cost me £3 to get a range of 80 miles, which doesn't seem too bad.

 

Yes, the charging stations are currently free.  Can't see why it should continue.

We should pay for fuel.

Once ranges are up to 120-150 miles of real world usage it's not going to be viable to have free charging.

It would be like a petrol station giving free fuel if you only put £10 in.  It'd be so busy you'd never get in there!

 

I think people should let the technology mature rather than criticise.

There's huge amount of cutting edge research going into new batteries technology. The latest I'd seen was based on nano scale carbon substrate and some really trick chemistry. Increased the energy density by order of magnitude per unit of weight!!! That was based on massive increase of reactive surface area and efficient electrolytic reaction.

There is future in this kind of sport, big time. Especially with direct transferability to commercial uses.

What is sad is that F1 tries to go hybrid electric and it really should not, that what Formula E is for!

Hybrid electric is a dead end from technological evolution point of view, a temporary stop gap until energy storage densities are cracked. 2017 iirc was the year quoted for first prototypes of those nano-carbon batteries.

 

I am yet to watch the race, saw the crash on beeb news yesterday, did the drivers almost have a punch up afterwards?

This seems overly negative.

It makes sense for many users to charge at night because they don't do loads of miles during the day.

This is also when there is low demand and makes a lot of sense.

Even charged at peak times it used to cost me £3 to get a range of 80 miles, which doesn't seem too bad.

Yes, the charging stations are currently free. Can't see why it should continue.

We should pay for fuel.

Once ranges are up to 120-150 miles of real world usage it's not going to be viable to have free charging.

It would be like a petrol station giving free fuel if you only put £10 in. It'd be so busy you'd never get in there!

I think people should let the technology mature rather than criticise.

Was chatting to an EV owner whilst trying to compete for a photo challenge and he echoed this, he said 40 miles to work and back but if running low just tops up at work! I still don't believe there is a charging point out here in the middle of nowhere

I suppose it just goes to show that this technology is becoming more and more common!

There's huge amount of cutting edge research going into new batteries technology. The latest I'd seen was based on nano scale carbon substrate and some really trick chemistry. Increased the energy density by order of magnitude per unit of weight!!! That was based on massive increase of reactive surface area and efficient electrolytic reaction.

There is future in this kind of sport, big time. Especially with direct transferability to commercial uses.

What is sad is that F1 tries to go hybrid electric and it really should not, that what Formula E is for!

Hybrid electric is a dead end from technological evolution point of view, a temporary stop gap until energy storage densities are cracked. 2017 iirc was the year quoted for first prototypes of those nano-carbon batteries.

 

I am yet to watch the race, saw the crash on beeb news yesterday, did the drivers almost have a punch up afterwards?

Do you have a cite? Seriously, because for me this is the "missing link" on usable EVs. 

What, for the research?

What, for the research?

Yes. I'm totally serious about wanting to know about "bleeding edge" power storage technologies.

I looked for it but I could not find the particular one I remember, there's simply too many articles floating about.

I did find some interesting ones

 

conventional battery research map

http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v11/n1/full/nmat3191.html

 

conventional nano-tech research

http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v9/n8/full/nnano.2014.152.html

 

my favourite, supercapacitors

http://www.nature.com/nnano/journal/v9/n7/full/nnano.2014.93.html

 

Bleeding edge, or at least what I think it is would be research on Li-Air cathodes

http://www.nature.com/nmat/journal/v12/n11/full/nmat3737.html

 

We have to remember that these guys are pi$$ing into the oil industry hurricane...

 

bioengineering angle, my all time fav as I believe genetic engineering is humankind's future

https://www.ted.com/talks/angela_belcher_using_nature_to_grow_batteries (have not seen this one from Angela yet, even though it is 3 years old already lol )

 

 

Now, something to boil you brain a little bit

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129583.900-quantum-electric-dewdrops-produced-for-first-time.html#.VBf-afldV8E

I've watched the last 3 races, today's was rather good, I prefer it to F1, more interesting for me as there is a lot more of a level playing field so about driver skill. Switching cars really doesn't work for me though, it'll be better with the plug in battery packs which can be swapped

The ex-Red Bull drivers are good at this. Jaime was fastest in practice, JEV in qualifying, and Seb B won the race.

I take it Formula E isn't catching on here? with nobody posting for over 3 months...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Piquet won the last race around Long Beach at the weekend - instead of crashing to let his team mate win like his previous street-race.

I watch a bit of it but it's not really been something I've felt that I've wanted to stop doing other jobs for, where as I put down everything I was doing for the BTTC at Brands