Octavia Tdi timing help needed

[paulkennedy]

Hi Guys

I decided to change the timing belt on my Octavia AGR engine. I set it on TDC and inserted the cam lock tool however the pump timing hole was about 180 degrees off. I set the pump with the locking tool and changed the belt but now the car wont start. Any ideas what could cause this?

Thanks

[faboka vrs]

Is this a PD lump? When I did my fabia I had to tweak the cam timing till it started. Then used VCDS measure block group 4 to get the timing correct.

[trundlenut]

No its the 90bhp injection pump diesel.

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[paulkennedy]

Could the cam be 180 degrees off? It ran fine I wanted to change the belt as I'd just bought the car. There was loads of tipex marks under the covers on pulleys etc

[trundlenut]

Presumably the cam and flywheel timing marks lined up OK. Just the injection pump was out.

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[paulkennedy]

Yes the cam and crank timing marks lines up pretty well. I don't think the flywheel can be fitted wrongly? Or can it

[trundlenut]

From memory I didn't think there were timing marks on the crank, only on the flywheel.

[paulkennedy]

Apologies the mark on the flywheel

[trundlenut]

Unless someone had previously messed with the injection pump pulley I can't see how you would end up 180 degrees out.

 

Can you get a picture of the injection pump pulley?

[paulkennedy]

I will post a photograph tomorrow, I know the slot for the locking pin is at 1 oclock before I took the belt off the hole in the pulley was at about 7 oclock. I could put it back as it was but I'd prefer it was right and I'm curious as to why it's so far off. Thanks for the replies

[rwbaldwin]

It's quite possible to put the pump locking pin around 30° to the right of the hole. It's also possible to be out by 180°.

I'm assuming that when you turned the engine over by hand before starting it, it rotated without obstruction.

What you need to do now is remove the belt, turn the crankshaft to TDC and ensure the locking pin is actually in the injection pump hole. You need to set the camshaft so the slot is horizontal and the cam lobes are both up on the cylinder closest to the belt. If they are not both up, rotate the camshaft by 180°.

I'm assuming you haven't undone the nut at the centre of the injection pump sprocket.

If you're in doubt about the TDC mark, check it by removing the glowplug and turn the engine by hand until the piston is actually at TDC.

[paulkennedy]

Yes I turned the engine over twice when I fitted the belt. All the locking tools were in position and the belt properly tensioned. I have done quite a few of these before but Ive never seen the timing off by more than a few degrees. I will sleep on it meanwhile I have to borrow my mates vectra :(

[rwbaldwin]

Yes I turned the engine over twice when I fitted the belt. All the locking tools were in position and the belt properly tensioned. I have done quite a few of these before but Ive never seen the timing off by more than a few degrees. I will sleep on it meanwhile I have to borrow my mates vectra :(

When you saw the injection pump hole at 7 o'clock (which means you were out by 180°), did you turn the IP sprocket to the 1 o'clock position?

If so, then that's the problem.

[trundlenut]

You can see if the cam lobes are up on the first cylinder through the oil filler can't you?

[paulkennedy]

When you saw the injection pump hole at 7 o'clock (which means you were out by 180°), did you turn the IP sprocket to the 1 o'clock position?

If so, then that's the problem.

Yes I turned the pump to 1 oclock so I could put in the locking tool. I cant lock the pump at 7 oclock

[paulkennedy]

You can see if the cam lobes are up on the first cylinder through the oil filler can't you?

I didnt remove the cam cover as the tool i have locks it without removing it. As far as I know the cam slkot is offset so it should only fit on 1 way. I will check the lobes tomorrow. Another guy mentioned the pipes could be connected wrongly but I would need another car to check

[trundlenut]

I didnt remove the cam cover as the tool i have locks it without removing it. As far as I know the cam slkot is offset so it should only fit on 1 way. I will check the lobes tomorrow. Another guy mentioned the pipes could be connected wrongly but I would need another car to check

 

I was just saying that if you need to check you can do it without taking the rocker cover off.

[paulkennedy]

Thanks I'll have a look tomorrow. Does anyone know the layout of the pump to injector pipes I looked on google but apart from"mark the pipes before you remove them" all I can find is incomprehensible stuff

Edited 6 October, 2014 by paulkennedy

[rwbaldwin]

Yes I turned the pump to 1 oclock so I could put in the locking tool. I cant lock the pump at 7 oclock

You were 180° out :(

The crankshaft rotates twice for every camshaft/IP pulley revolution, so you see the TDC mark twice for each camshaft/IP pulley revolution. If you had turned the crankshaft another turn, you would have been in the right position.

The good bit is that the crankshaft and camshaft are still in sync (no bent valves, etc).

The bad bit is that you need to remove the belt and rotate the IP pulley by 180°, without moving the crankshaft/camshaft pulleys.

[paulkennedy]

You were 180° out :(

The crankshaft rotates twice for every camshaft/IP pulley revolution, so you see the TDC mark twice for each camshaft/IP pulley revolution. If you had turned the crankshaft another turn, you would have been in the right position.

The good bit is that the crankshaft and camshaft are still in sync (no bent valves, etc).

The bad bit is that you need to remove the belt and rotate the IP pulley by 180°, without moving the crankshaft/camshaft pulleys.

I did that but she won't start. The pump was 180 degrees out when I started to remove the belt, I put it where it is supposed to go and now the car wont!

[trundlenut]

I did that but she won't start. The pump was 180 degrees out when I started to remove the belt, I put it where it is supposed to go and now the car wont!

 

Did it run before you removed the belt?

[paulkennedy]

Did it run before you removed the belt?

Yes she ran very well I only bought the car so for peace of mind I decided to change the belt

[trundlenut]

Yes she ran very well I only bought the car so for peace of mind I decided to change the belt

Well it seeks most likely that it is what rwbaldwin said then.

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[paulkennedy]

I'm going to brink the pump to a diesel engineer to check the calibration

[rwbaldwin]

I'm going to brink the pump to a diesel engineer to check the calibration

You only need to do that if the centre nut has been undone. It's usually covered in yellow paint as a warning not to undo it.