From the diagram above,

I was in lane A, indicating to go to lane C. There was a massive queue of traffic from lane B and the driver at the front of the queue in lane B had flashed his lights to allow me to go and gestured as such. As I began turning into lane C, a megane raced across me from lane D (people beeping at her) and merged straight into lane C (instead of going into lane E). Slammed on the breaks in front of me and I bumped her car.

For the record lane D goes to lane E.

Lane A goes to lane C. I took pictures at the scene which shows the positions of the cars, you can clearly see the way my wheel was pointed and the way her car was pointed that she cut in from the wrong lane and cut past all those drivers in lane D.

What do you think?

You can see here the way her car is positioned at an angle, obviously coming from the wrong lane.

Hardly any damage to either cars, little bit of paint and that's it. Hardly see it with the eye. Even still, good job I didn't fit my brand new bumper before this (I was going to do it aswell)

Her fault easily

While I can see it being her fault, she done some weird manoeuvre, however if this went to insurance it will go 50/50 (Best case scenario) or would be your fault.

 

You give way to traffic on the right. The flash of the lights in Lane B doesn't help as someone in Lane D (She was probably planning that move for a while to skip a bit of traffic). She also probably did see the flash of lights from the driver in Lane B.

The road markings look like they are worn from the street view image, but I don't know if there is decent signage to say about the lanes.

 

As a general rule of thumb I don't trust people who flash their lights, they aren't thinking of other cars around them, cyclists or motorcyclists. I only flash other drivers, if I feel it is safe for them to make the manoeuvre.

I wouldn't want to flash someone and find a motorbike goes in to the car I just flashed to go in front of me.

While I can see it being her fault, she done some weird manoeuvre, however if this went to insurance it will go 50/50 (Best case scenario) or would be your fault.

 

You give way to traffic on the right. The flash of the lights in Lane B doesn't help as someone in Lane D (She was probably planning that move for a while to skip a bit of traffic). She also probably did see the flash of lights from the driver in Lane B.

The road markings look like they are worn from the street view image, but I don't know if there is decent signage to say about the lanes.

 

As a general rule of thumb I don't trust people who flash their lights, they aren't thinking of other cars around them, cyclists or motorcyclists. I only flash other drivers, if I feel it is safe for them to make the manoeuvre.

I wouldn't want to flash someone and find a motorbike goes in to the car I just flashed to go in front of me.

It did go to insurance and they want my "events of what happened". But, the lane she was in (lane D) is only a very short lane and she certainly wasn't in that lane when I left my lane to turn left. So she would've even had to "drive on the other side of the road to enter her lane". And at that point, that's where the beeping came from, other drivers telling her not to do that... and skip the line of traffic.

But oh well, we shall see. Thanks alan

From memory (and from what I can see in the ‘photo’ above) there are no road marking at that junction.

 

If she overtook you and changed lane whilst you were there then it was her fault, if however you both entered that lane at the same time then i would say it was your fault (give way to the right) or at best 50/50

Firstly, your diagram is overly complicated but I think I've got it. She's come from your right (in the right hand lane or lane 2 as the old plod call it) gone straight across and merged straight into lane one (left lane) after the roundabout all the while you've been flashed out by another driver into that lane.

For a bit of background does lane E filter into lane C? Are there any markings on the roads or signs that say lanes are designated to certain directions ie turn right only lanes etc?

Unless you have a witness to say otherwise it'll be 50/50 as I think that's where the blame lies.

Your pictures make it look like you have gone into the back of her at an angle.

Don't expect the other party to admit liability.

 

I suspect the best you'll get is 50/50 and the worse is your fault for a rear end shunt.

 

Irrespective of what happened before, she braked and you made contact with the rear of her vehicle.

 

While you have an overly complicated story/diagram, there are two sides to every story.

With no dash-cam video the picture looks like you rear ended her.

 

A £100-£150 dash-cam could have just saved you an at fault claim.

 

In my opinion.

I thought the rule was if you hit the other car then it is your fault?

 

From the opening post the Megane braked to a sudden stop and was then hit.

 

Was the Megane stationary when you made contact?

Something looks a little strange here, the Google Streetview image and the actual photo's of the event don't match.

 

The point of contact I assume is the far left of the Google Streetview, lane C and lane E?

 

Here we can see two clearly defined lanes, C and E.

 

However in the real life photo's the road width seems to me to suggest it is a single carriageway, i.e. only one lane?

 

I can't see how the Megane has left the roundabout in lane C instead of lane E when there appears to be only one lane to exit into?

 

Also there are double yellow lines in one image and single yellow lines in the others?

 

Have I mistaken the point of contact?

Edited 8 December, 201411 yr by silver1011

I'd say definately your fault. Lets look at the blunt facts, it's a roundabout and oncoming traffic from the right has right of way, you hit the back of the other car and you made the common misconception of someone flashing their lights to mean "go on then". The Highway Code states: 'Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.'

 

Unfortunate, but in a court of law, they look at the facts in regards to the rules of the road. I think you'd be very very lucky for a 50/50 ruling.

Also, do you have any details of witnesses who could back up that she was driving in a dangerous manner? If not, you're knackered unfortunately.

As above without independent witnesses it'll most likely go 50/50 at best. As Bossfox says a dashcam would have solved the issue 1 way or the other and are worth their weight if you're the innocent party. Hope you get it sorted without too much hassle.

You've gone up the back of someone. Harsh reality.

Something looks a little strange here, the Google Streetview image and the actual photo's of the event don't match.

 

The point of contact I assume is the far left of the Google Streetview, lane C and lane E?

 

Here we can see two clearly defined lanes, C and E.

 

However in the real life photo's the road width seems to me to suggest it is a single carriageway, i.e. only one lane?

 

I can't see how the Megane has left the roundabout in lane C instead of lane E when there appears to be only one lane to exit into?

 

Also there are double yellow lines in one image and single yellow lines in the others?

 

Have I mistaken the point of contact?

 

 

I thought the same at first glance, but the picture if you click on it to enlarge does show 2 lanes (part of a hazard warning line in middle and a raised area to right with fence on it) it is the left of the picture as described all be it scary over complicatedly. On link below double yellow lines are worn heavily on outter line and in OP's 2nd pic you can see this also where it magically starts again where it's been worn off where pic 1 was taken. Note position of lamp post on near side to show how far after first mini roundabout being focused on it was, but right at edge of the street view pic in post 1. 

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.3606503,1.3982197,3a,75y,311.64h,53.71t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1szN2xwI90qEzcoDgEXuchYQ!2e0 

 

Another view is that both cars had exited the mini roundabout at point of contact and that would in my mind make it along with positioning in picture that the Megan changed lanes and struck the OP. OP's car even appears to have moved to near side. What way or how both cars entered mini roundabout I would say is irrelevant if collision did not happen on it. My take on it all is, she was being clever to beat the traffic using lane 2 to go straight over and exited onto lane 2 then immediately attempted to change into lane 1 to carry on being a driving God and failed to use her near side mirror or check her blind spot 'assuming' no one would or could be there. 

 

If that is the case, I would focus on the fact that this was an extremely short stretch of dual carriageway and car in lane 2 merged into lane one without looking making contact with side rear of her car, mini roundabout smart ass lane. On her approach to mini roundabout OP's car was not concealed and it is not for her to assume where it intends to go (it could have been manoeuvring around an obstruction at the threshold in lane 1 not her assumption to make.  

 

As per OP's 2nd pic this happened just before the threshold of the 2nd mini roundabout, not at the point of exiting the first one. Which would mean she didn't exit the first mini roundabout cutting directly into lane one, but exited into lane 2 travelled 3 or so car lengths and over half of the way to next mini roundabout where she then carried out a lane change wholly independent of her exiting of the first one. 

 

 

My inturprotation of cars locations based on pictures and specific location. My awesome car symbols are too large and forward, but you get the idea.

Other scenario is the classic one in which OP's didn't want this car to get away with what she was intending to do and neither party backed off. Not saying that is what happened as I wasn't there, but it's not an uncommon thing to go on when people don't like someone doing what she was described in detail as doing and cutting back in, which the OP admits to have been fully aware of. If that's what happened hope for 50/50, however IF she just changed lanes on top of you and hit you, focus on that point and forget the first mini roundabout as it has nothing to do with a lane change such a distance after it. Road positioning of OP's car in pictures would support either scenario with either having no warning, or time moved to near side while braking taking direct avoidance action, or trying to not be squeezed out of the way until the bitter end.  

 

Plus a perhaps another perfect example of misuse of horns for vanity / verging on road rage at disagreement of another road users actions, just to voice a frustrated objection causing nothing more than an additional distraction to everyone who has better things to be doing with their concentration (one of my pet hates). 

 

 

Did car indicate it's intention to change lanes, if so what action was taken at this point?

Once car began to cross the hazard warning line, what action was taken at this point? 

 

Those would be my two questions for attributing if this was a 50/50 collision based on it not being 'this is my lane' game. If she forcefully and abruptly fast & furious style lane changed on top of you, I would see 100% of the blame on her. If she indicated and or moved over at a normal pace, I would expect avoidance action. This may be evident by the positioning so close to the near side and may have also been also under braking trying to avoid a collision? 

 

A £100-£150 dash-cam could have just saved you an at fault claim.

 

 

Or a £20 one :P

Firstly witness statements to say what her driving was like, secondly never proceed on a car flashing you out as they can't predict other road users actions, I've seen people using other lanes which are turn right only to beat the traffic too many times, hope it can be sorted soon for you.

Unless you have some totally independent and credible witnesses I suspect that will go down to "your fault" as you hit the back of her.

If you are really lucky it might go 50/50.

Highway code - "Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users."

 

Someone flashing doesn't let you shift responsible for what happens, so as said never trust someone flashing you out.

 

There does appear to be a little worn away roundabout in there somewhere, doesn't that imply you should have been giving way to the right, even if she's done something stupid?

Just because you run into the back of somebody's vehicle, is not a prima facia case,there are circumstances,were the driver of the rear vehicle could not possibly avoid it,it is rare but it happens. You should always drive at a speed and distance from the vehicle in front to stop safely,this is nearly impossible in heavy moving traffic today. I would suggest you need independent witnesses, if none the outcome is a definete 50 50 claim.Lets face it it doesn't,t really matter who's fault it is the insurance will screw you anyway.

Stick one of these touch-up pens in the post to her...

Ahh I know this location and I think that roundabout is a nightmare at the best of times. Very few people seem to know where they are going or how to drive it. Sorry to say I think insurance will blame you or if you are lucky it will go 50/50. Get a dashcam fitted. There are way too many idiots and foreign drivers on kents roads! 

It's your fault I'm afraid - as suggested, 50/50 if you're very lucky, but 50/50 settlement or fault makes little odds to your future premiums.

 

Working in the industry, this is a source of frustration as I wouldn't say it's your fault as such, but then the phrases fault/non-fault are hugely inappropriate when talking about the settlement of motor claims.

If lane b is to your right, why is c to your left?

*totally confused*