When I was living in Surrey at the start of the year, I was constantly on the M25 between the M40 and M23. I got to know where what was normal for the signs. To be fair to the person who set the signs was pretty good, and trusted them. I didn't personally worry about the cameras on there, I only knew of 1 gantry on that whole section that flashed, so was careful of that one.

Since driving on it since (Around November) I noticed extra lines in the lanes, so I can only guess they are lining up more gantries for cameras.

 

M4/M5, I just don't go over the limits on the signs. Those things flashing like a Christmas Tree. Again the people who set the signs seem to do a good job. Normally it's 60 and the hard shoulder is open, 50 if going between a 60 to 40 gradual slow down, and 40 where there is a stationary traffic.

I've often seen it queue doing the hard shoulder for the next junction with 40 signs out, people go flying past and get flashed.

 

I was on the M42 a few weeks ago during rush hour. I found the variable speed limit signs useless. There was NSL signs with all lanes solid with the hard shoulder closed. It may have been an off day for them.

 

Personally I just avoid going above the limit for the gantries, and sometimes I can anticipate if the gantry is going to change very soon. That's the moments when people slam on their brakes.

Not sure if it is still he case but a few years back it was said somewhere in the press (I think) that the limiting factor on how many tickets they could churn out from digital cameras was the need to manually verify the details before sending it out. This was the expensive and time consuming part of the process, however they may have got over that now and automated the process!

I think that rumour mill was rolling after the scheme was initiated, not sure how much of it was 'urban myth'. I knew people who knew people that got flashed and not prosecuted, but I think the roadside cameras could still flash without the film in. Another rumour was that they'd rotate films around the cameras in the boroughs so one month yes, next month no.

I do remember my Dad getting flashed and caught and appealed on the basis of being allowed 10% of the limit +2 mph...'Not in a 30mph zone sir, 10% only there.' 33.4 was the crime. I tend to keep the 10% allowance in mind, mainly on faster roads and average speed cameras, bearing in mind speedos tend to be out by %5, hence the margin of error and the allowance. I think an examiner will even allow the 10% when going through a speed limit change as long as you sort it promptly. Seems to be an allowance that's there to be used in the right circumstances (clearing traffic/overtaking for example) but it can be a risky business given that you can't negotiate with a camera and an appeal has to be rock solid to stand any chance. I bet they read some amusing excuses in the appeals dept.

Sorry but that is utter tripe, it is never unsafe to slow down for these gantries as you can see them in good time and if traffic is moving freely then just move to lane 1 and slow down. If other people want to exceed the limit, they can overtake you.

 

I read it differently.

 

Doing 40mph when traffic in all other lanes is travelling as normal (56mph to 90mph) then I'd agree that sticking to the recommended 40mph advisory limit is potentially less safe than keeping up with the flow (with albeit longer than normal distances between other road others in anticipation of a potential issue up ahead).

I read it differently.

Doing 40mph when traffic in all other lanes is travelling as normal (56mph to 90mph) then I'd agree that sticking to the recommended 40mph advisory limit is potentially less safe than keeping up with the flow (with albeit longer than normal distances between other road others in anticipation of a potential issue up ahead).

Agreed, not everyone sees these things and slows progressively and/or smoothly, and its sudden changes in speed, speed differentiation and quick lane changing that causes most problems on motorways from a bit of congestion to serious incidents.

So I have a question, several miles of reduced variable motorway limits, say 60mph.

 

A motorist passes 5 or more gantry mounted cameras at an excessive speed, is that 5x 3 points / loss of licence, or would they class it as one single offence?

So I have a question, several miles of reduced variable motorway limits, say 60mph.

 

A motorist passes 5 or more gantry mounted cameras at an excessive speed, is that 5x 3 points / loss of licence, or would they class it as one single offence?

Good question, would depend on how excessive the speed was, lets say its 70, I would assume 1 offence but would be above 3 points, or maybe 3 points and higher fine. Don't know though but I would say they'd load it up somehow, hope I never find out!

I read it differently.

 

Doing 40mph when traffic in all other lanes is travelling as normal (56mph to 90mph) then I'd agree that sticking to the recommended 40mph advisory limit is potentially less safe than keeping up with the flow (with albeit longer than normal distances between other road others in anticipation of a potential issue up ahead).

I don't agree, how is it less safe? Stopping time is reduced, you have more reaction time, what other road users do is their problem, not yours.

Your stopping time would be reduced, but not that of those who are travelling at higher speeds around you.

 

It is exactly these other road users not travelling at 40mph that you need to be worried about as it'll be one of them that ends up rear ending you.

 

In this case what other road users do would be my problem as regardless of my speed the single vehicle doing 40mph on a road full of other vehicles averaging 70mph would put the slower vehicle at a high risk of being caught up in a collision, regardless of fault.

 

So I'd argue that in this example ignoring the 40mph advisory and instead keeping up with the flow of traffic (at the same time as increasing the distance to the vehicle in front) would be the safer option.

 

If everyone was doing the advised 40mph then I'd stick with your view, but in the situation described earlier this doesn't appear to be the case.

Edited 28 December, 201411 yr by silver1011

Your stopping time would be reduced, but not that of those who are travelling at higher speeds around you.

It is exactly these other road users not travelling at 40mph that you need to be worried about as it'll be one of them that ends up rear ending you.

In this case what other road users do would be my problem as regardless of my speed the single vehicle doing 40mph on a road full of other vehicles averaging 70mph would put the slower vehicle at a high risk of being caught up in a collision, regardless of fault.

So I'd argue that in this example ignoring the 40mph advisory and instead keeping up with the flow of traffic (at the same time as increasing the distance to the vehicle in front) would be the safer option.

If everyone was doing the advised 40mph then I'd stick with your view, but in the situation described earlier this doesn't appear to be the case.

Agreed, this is what I was getting at.

The big difference I find is whether it's day or night. During the day, if it says 40/50 then chances are something has happened and you can't physically do more than the posted speed even if you wanted to, or in the case of the M25, you're crawling along at 5mph anyway.

It's at night that I tend to ignore them. As in my own experience of using the m25 once a week to go home between 10pm-2am, I'd say 9/10 times it's almost like the signs were put up earlier in the day and then the guys have gone home and left them there. And it's at night that everyone else ignores them. I'm not saying that gives me the right to just do what everyone else does, but I highly doubt that every single one of those cars is getting a ticket. In fact earlier with this topic in mind, I did slow down to 50mph when it was shown on one gantry and I was the only one who did, everyone flew past at 70+. By the next gantry there was nothing posted again anyway.

I don't agree, how is it less safe? Stopping time is reduced, you have more reaction time, what other road users do is their problem, not yours.

Because speed isnt as dangerous as differentials in speed.

I think thats what hes trying to say.

You go with the flow, gives others and yourself more time to react. If theyre going twice as fast, it doesnt give you much time to react.

Agreed, this is what I was getting at.

The big difference I find is whether it's day or night. During the day, if it says 40/50 then chances are something has happened and you can't physically do more than the posted speed even if you wanted to, or in the case of the M25, you're crawling along at 5mph anyway.

It's at night that I tend to ignore them. As in my own experience of using the m25 once a week to go home between 10pm-2am, I'd say 9/10 times it's almost like the signs were put up earlier in the day and then the guys have gone home and left them there. And it's at night that everyone else ignores them. I'm not saying that gives me the right to just do what everyone else does, but I highly doubt that every single one of those cars is getting a ticket. In fact earlier with this topic in mind, I did slow down to 50mph when it was shown on one gantry and I was the only one who did, everyone flew past at 70+. By the next gantry there was nothing posted again anyway.

They tend to be advisory reductions in an attempt to reduce average speed to reduce congestion usually, admittedly not everyone takes notice, I tend to get as close as I safely and reasonably can, usually just get into lane 1 until I've figured out what's going on. Reductions in average speed do seem to work, those long sections at 50 through roadworks usually flow pretty nicely.

So I have a question, several miles of reduced variable motorway limits, say 60mph.

 

A motorist passes 5 or more gantry mounted cameras at an excessive speed, is that 5x 3 points / loss of licence, or would they class it as one single offence?

There was a story/tale about this years back, whether it is true or not I really don't know.

Not based on a motorway so slightly different but the story goes that someone passes 4 cameras on their journey and gets flashed by them all. He is sent NIPs for them all individually, which would total 12 points and therefore a ban! So he challenges and takes to court arguing as he didn't slow down it was just one offence. The prosecution indicates that this would therefore be dangerous driving as speeding over a protracted distance!

As I said, not sure if it is true or not or what the outcome was if it was true

There was a story/tale about this years back, whether it is true or not I really don't know.

Not based on a motorway so slightly different but the story goes that someone passes 4 cameras on their journey and gets flashed by them all. He is sent NIPs for them all individually, which would total 12 points and therefore a ban! So he challenges and takes to court arguing as he didn't slow down it was just one offence. The prosecution indicates that this would therefore be dangerous driving as speeding over a protracted distance!

As I said, not sure if it is true or not or what the outcome was if it was true

Harsh, or maybe not depending on the speed. I think it may be different for non motorway because they could argue that there are more changing conditions and variable hazards, could have even gone through more speed limit changes. In any case I don't think it will be very often that the courts will back down or renegotiate a prosecution when it comes to speeding. Not the kind of position you really want to find yourself in.

There was a story/tale about this years back, whether it is true or not I really don't know.

Not based on a motorway so slightly different but the story goes that someone passes 4 cameras on their journey and gets flashed by them all. He is sent NIPs for them all individually, which would total 12 points and therefore a ban! So he challenges and takes to court arguing as he didn't slow down it was just one offence. The prosecution indicates that this would therefore be dangerous driving as speeding over a protracted distance!

As I said, not sure if it is true or not or what the outcome was if it was true

I've heard that one before too

Didnt know the ending though. I thought he got away with it

Your stopping time would be reduced, but not that of those who are travelling at higher speeds around you.

It is exactly these other road users not travelling at 40mph that you need to be worried about as it'll be one of them that ends up rear ending you.

In this case what other road users do would be my problem as regardless of my speed the single vehicle doing 40mph on a road full of other vehicles averaging 70mph would put the slower vehicle at a high risk of being caught up in a collision, regardless of fault.

So I'd argue that in this example ignoring the 40mph advisory and instead keeping up with the flow of traffic (at the same time as increasing the distance to the vehicle in front) would be the safer option.

If everyone was doing the advised 40mph then I'd stick with your view, but in the situation described earlier this doesn't appear to be the case.

Firstly, we are talking about variable speed limits, not advisory ones, secondly it's still tosh I'm afraid. If these people are so dangerous that they are going to hit you when your doing 40mph in lane one then what makes you believe that they won't if you're doing 70 in lane three? Everytime I go on the motorway there's always a few folk in cars doing 50mph in lane one, I havent seen one hit yet.

There was a story/tale about this years back, whether it is true or not I really don't know.

Not based on a motorway so slightly different but the story goes that someone passes 4 cameras on their journey and gets flashed by them all. He is sent NIPs for them all individually, which would total 12 points and therefore a ban! So he challenges and takes to court arguing as he didn't slow down it was just one offence. The prosecution indicates that this would therefore be dangerous driving as speeding over a protracted distance!

As I said, not sure if it is true or not or what the outcome was if it was true

As far as I can remember, if there's more than one offence ie 4 speeding tickets it must go to court, you'll be hit with all the aclumative points and fines however only one will count towards your totting up. Or at least that's how it was explained to me.

Worth a google of Grimsby Telegraph 7 tickets in 9 days.

or 

Grimsby Peak Parkway speeder caught 5 times in a month.

(2014, she was lucky. lol)

 

Before Camera Partnerships, just good old Hand Held Speed Guns & Unmarked cars

Saturdays & Sundays could be fun with Police Speed Campaign.

eg

Motor Bikes doing a circuit of Perth to Perth, up the A9, across to Fort William by Spean Bridge, 

through Glencoe, & back by Crieff.

 

I was on a run where riders were caught Several Times on the one day and kept their licences,

and some i know were caught more than once over the weekend period and received bans after having to appear in different areas courts.

Edited 29 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

Speeding fines hit four-year high.

 

More than 115,000 motorists in England and Wales were issued with fines of at least £100 by magistrates last year - the highest level since the Coalition came into power in 2010, according to figures from the Ministry of Justice.

 

In some areas, the recent increase has been even more stark. In Essex, the number of speeding fines handed out by the courts rose by 44 per cent in 2013 to 3,091, while in Avon and Somerset the number rose by 34 per cent to 3,925.

Other areas which saw the number of fines rise by more than 20 per cent in 2013 included Hampshire, Lancashire, Gwent and Staffordshire.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11312713/Speeding-fines-hit-four-year-high-due-to-new-digital-cameras.html

If I see 40mph up ahead I drop to the near side lane if I'm in another one and slowly ease up to the limit. Never had any near misses or close calls doing this, I'm not slamming my brakes on and plenty of people only do 50-60mph so 40 isnt much slower than that, plenty of time for everyone to adjust. 

 

As for the multiple tickets on a motorway stretch I also wondered this, along with average speed sections I wondered if you went through a 50 at 70 the whole way would you get a ticket for each set of cameras or just one. Regarding the normal cameras I read recently it would be down to getting a lawyer to get the 2/3/4 tickets reduced into one if possible at court but they'd be sent out initially anyway? 

Firstly, we are talking about variable speed limits, not advisory ones, secondly it's still tosh I'm afraid. If these people are so dangerous that they are going to hit you when your doing 40mph in lane one then what makes you believe that they won't if you're doing 70 in lane three? Everytime I go on the motorway there's always a few folk in cars doing 50mph in lane one, I havent seen one hit yet.

There are still plenty of the older style gantry's that display advisable speed limits across all lanes, as pictured earlier.

If a car in lane 3 drops to 40mph and all other traffic across all 3 lanes ignores the advisory limit then you have the potential for a car approaching another at a closing speed of more than double that of the slower car.

Like I said if everyone adhered to the advisory speed limit there wouldn't be any issue. When one car on a busy motorway slows from 80mph to 40mph but no one else does then I would rather be anywhere else than sat in the slower car.

Usually sensible to gradually slow down and move over lanes though, not just stand on the brakes in lane 3

There are still plenty of the older style gantry's that display advisable speed limits across all lanes, as pictured earlier.

If a car in lane 3 drops to 40mph and all other traffic across all 3 lanes ignores the advisory limit then you have the potential for a car approaching another at a closing speed of more than double that of the slower car.

Like I said if everyone adhered to the advisory speed limit there wouldn't be any issue. When one car on a busy motorway slows from 80mph to 40mph but no one else does then I would rather be anywhere else than sat in the slower car.

If a foolish driver drops from 70 to 40 in lane three then it may be a problem, however it would not be the fact that they are following the signs, rather that they are driving without due care and consideration to other road users. Lane 2 and 3 are overtaking lanes only. A safe and compenet driver would pull over to lane 1 and slow down in good time. Regardless of how you try to dress it up, slowing down to the advisory or legal temporary speed limits is not dangerous and to suggest otherwise is complete nonsense.

Also remember.. that signs can be set for MANY reasons....

Reduced speeds are not always for traffic flow..

There could be an incident of some sort.

You may come across a problem in any lane... So reducing speed IS the correct, safe and sensible thing to do.

2nd & 3rd lanes are not always overtaking lanes,

there are Motorways Running through Cities with many lanes, 

as many as 8 wide with slip roads entering from the Left & Right of your lane.

 

Being selective when you lift off the throttle because you are in a particular lane is odd when the Advised Speed & then the restricted 

speed is on a gantry sign above your lane, because obviously it is above the lane of the person that is behind you, 

and the one behind them etc.

them lane changing to undertake and the likes is not really your concern as long as you are paying attention and adhering to the 

traffic signs and the Highway code.

It is pretty obvious that with the prior warning you should lift off the throttle, and not brake test those behind you.

If a foolish driver drops from 70 to 40 in lane three then it may be a problem, however it would not be the fact that they are following the signs, rather that they are driving without due care and consideration to other road users. Lane 2 and 3 are overtaking lanes only. A safe and compenet driver would pull over to lane 1 and slow down in good time. Regardless of how you try to dress it up, slowing down to the advisory or legal temporary speed limits is not dangerous and to suggest otherwise is complete nonsense.

 

In one breath you say reducing your speed is not dangerous and to suggest otherwise is complete nonsense, and in the next breath you suggest that a safe and competent driver would slow from 70mph to 40mph only in lane one, therefore suggesting that slowing to 40mph in lanes two or three is less safe?

 

The advisory reduced speed limit applies to all live lanes...

 

 

And this is exactly my point. Rightly or wrongly very few motorists adhere to advisory speed limits (compared with temporary legal speed limits where most tend to do due to enforcement).

 

Call it nonsense until you are blue in the face but to slow to 40mph past signs similar to those above when no one else does, especially on a quieter faster flowing road would be foolish and less safe than continuing with the flow of the traffic.

Edited 30 December, 201411 yr by silver1011