conditioner air on/off/on

[IsmaelSK]

Hello again:

How about everything? I hope it's ok.

I raise my problem and thank you for the help or direction you can give me.

Air conditioning recently ran out of gas. check for leaks, remove the evaporator clean it, plug it well, check that there were no more leaks and recharge the air with gas again. The air works well but sometimes turns itself off and then on again alone.

I imagine it will be an electrical problem. Any ideas? I can direct you to a post where he talks about this problem ?, I've been looking and can not find anything.

Thank you.

 

IsmaelSK :clap:

[IsmaelSK]

 

check here for the photos of the relay box. please:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p17m18ntg69tfse/AADvedzu9sQypCbKJOOREVuna?dl=0

[IsmaelSK]

I check all the conetions and the fuses in the box. One its broken but I'm not sure that has to do with A/C

[RicardoM]

From your description I believe the culprit is the compressor electromagnetic clutch.

You must check and adjust the gap between the clutch plate and the pulley of the compressor.

[IsmaelSK]

Thank you. Could you tell me how to do and what steps must be followed please.

Should we remove the compressor? O certain nuts tightening will suffice?

I'm no expert on this but if doing so without removing the compressor would appreciate me simply comment as I do not have much knowledge of mechanics.

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Gracias. Podría decirme como hacerlo y que pasos se deben seguir por favor.

¿Hay que desmontar el compresor? ¿o apretando ciertas tuercas será suficiente?

No soy especialista en esto pero si hay posibilidad de hacerlo sin desmontar el compresor le agradecería que me lo comentara de manera sencilla ya que no tengo muchos conocimientos de mecanica.

[RicardoM]

The compressor must be removed from  the car. The electromagnetic clutch disassembly involves using pullers / extractors and presses. This is not a job to do it yourself.

[IsmaelSK]

Good, thank you. The information has not been much. But thanks anyway.

 

I found were is the problem. Is a relay, because now,  fail me lights too and fan inside, sometimes works and sometimes not. When I look inside of the relay it smells as if something was burnt and some connections seem to have overheated.

 

My turn to buy one.

 

Greetings

[RicardoM]

The information has not been much. But thanks anyway.

The quantity of information I gave you was in direct relation with your skills. You said "I'm no expert on this" and "I do not have much knowledge of mechanics". So I recommended to avoid doing it yourself, but going to a car workshop that has the tools and the knowledge to adjust the gap and refill the circuit with refrigerant. You can't do that at home.

 

I found were is the problem. Is a relay, because now,  fail me lights too and fan inside, sometimes works and sometimes not. When I look inside of the relay it smells as if something was burnt and some connections seem to have overheated.

If you have found evidence that a relay related to A/C operation is badly overheated, by all means you should replace it. Yet let's not forget that in your original post, you looked for electrical faulty parts and wiring, you took out both relays, you took pictures of them, but didn't inform us of any signs of faulty operation. That was the reason I assumed they are OK and went for the next most probable cause. I have said it many times, you have the luxury of having full access to the car. We know only what we're told, often very briefly. Yet the expectations are very high. Sorry, but that is not right.

Edited 27 December, 2015 by RicardoM

[IsmaelSK]

Good morning:

 

You are right Ricardo.

 

I apologize.

 

I asked for the relay here in Santiago. Do not sell that piece here and I asked even in the official home Peravia Motors and is the same problem.

 

You know somewhere where you can get? I was told that maybe they can get used, but I do not trust that kind of used parts.

 

thanks again

[RicardoM]

Let's wait a little before buying a new relay. It is not 100% sure that the relay is the cause for air conditioning switching on / off randomly. You have based your analysis on looking at relay and smelling it. It is normal for a relay to be slightly brownish or to smell a little odd. After so many years of operation, the lacquer impregnated in the coil can change its color and smell like burnt plastic. But that is not definitive proof that the relay is faulty.

 

The wiring can be another simple cause of malfunction. Corrosion in connectors related to A/C happens quite often. The wires can become brittle and hang on just a few threads, thus not allowing enough current to pass.

 

The vacuum tank (behind the battery) has also a contact inside that is in series with the compressor clutch. No good contact, no A/C.

 

In conclusion, you need more investigation before buying parts.

 

[IsmaelSK]

Thank you very much Ricardo will continue investigating to see what can be. I look this valve to see that this is and I tell you something.

[IsmaelSK]

Just something added. After a couple of days now I no lights or fan that pulls air into the car work, those data do they help to isolate the problem?

[IsmaelSK]

the fan that pulls air into the car DONT work too.

[RicardoM]

Just something added. After a couple of days now I no lights or fan that pulls air into the car work, those data do they help to isolate the problem?

I don't know what 'lights' are you referring to. There are many 'lights' in the car. Be more specific.

 

About fresh air blower not working: start by checking fuse S3 then the wiring.

[IsmaelSK]

So it all started with the lights for the highway and now failure  light position in the left side and in the dashboard.

 

I dont have the wiring manual/ map for the felicia, Do you have one? 

 

Many thanks.

[RicardoM]

It is obvious you messed up the wiring when you looked for the electrical fault of air conditioning. Disconnect battery negative cable. Check all fuses. Do not work on the wiring without having the schematic and without knowing exactly what you are doing. No schematic, no repair.

 

This is the wiring for Felicia 1.3 LX with carburetor engine.

 

This is the fuse assignment for Felicia 1.3 LX with carburetor engine. Everything written with strikethrough applies only to Felicia 1.3 GLX.

 

[IsmaelSK]

Hello again.

Well these days have been very difficult with this problem.

 

In reviewing where possible electrical fault was discovered that ...

A leak in the compressor by one of the seals and over the evaporator. The evaporator was rotten.

                                                                                                                total price of the arrangement, RDS 8000

 

Electrical problems: the relay was loose solder legs. They were welded back and a broken fuse is changed. 500 RDS.

 

The lights already operating, the fan also.

 

Now the air conditioning keeps shutting off alone. When starting the car perfectly and minutes later turn itself off.

I will review it again with the electrician because it could not finish the job because the leak in the compressor.

 

This week we go to adjust the carburetor too.

[RicardoM]

It is very important to observe what happens when the A/C shuts off.

 

Is the compressor clutch engaged?

• If yes, you need to adjust the gap of the clutch.
• If not, then the relay doesn't work.

[IsmaelSK]

Thank you very much again .

 

I could explain how to check the compressor clutch?

 

and a question. Could it be possible that the button that turns the air conditioner is damaged?

 

At the moment what I can tell you is that when the air conditioning compressor stops working off. The relay was repaired and the electrician told me that the problem is on the button. But as you honesty and a mechanic not often go together once he said.

 

So with this data would appreciate your opinion.

 

If you believe you may be the button that is damaged. You have the possibility of getting this piece of code to request it online?

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Muchas gracias de nuevo .

 

Me podría explicar como comprobar el embrague del compresor?

 

y una pregunta. ¿Podría existir la posibilidad de que  el botón que enciende el aire acondicionado este dañado?

 

De momento lo que le puedo decir es que cuando el aire acondicionado se apaga el compresor deja de funcionar. El relé fue reparado y el electricista me ha dicho que el problema está en el boton. Pero como usted dijo una vez la honradez y un mecanico no suelen ir juntos.

 

Así que con estos datos apreciaría su opinión.

 

Si usted considera que es posible que sea el boton el que esté dañado. habría posibilidad de conseguir el código de esta pieza para pedirla por internet?

[IsmaelSK]

cheking the forums

 

  I find that page in internet for the parts.http://www.partscats.info/

 

 what do you think?

[RicardoM]

Relax. Don't buy parts blindly just because some electrician told you the problem is from the A/C switch. I've said it many times, find evidence first. What evidence do you have? What tests did you do to be 100% certain?

 

The air conditioning control system is not just the ON/OFF switch, a relay, and the compressor electromagnetic clutch. You forget the 'brain' of A/C, that looks like a bigger relay (see photo). The A/C control unit receives input signals from three sensors: coolant temperature sensor, evaporator temperature switch, and the pressure switch for A/C. The control unit powers the compressor clutch only when certain conditions are met.

 

So for now do as follows:

Start the engine at idle. You will test two green wires on A/C control unit. Identify them correctly, pin5 and pin 8.

1. Check the compressor clutch activation using a test lamp (see photo) connected between the green wire (pin 5) that goes to compressor and ground. When you turn A/C on, the test lamp should light, the idle speed should increase, and cold air should come out from air vents. Report what happened.
2. Check the double relay using a test lamp connected between the second green wire (pin 8) that comes from the relay and ground. When you turn A/C on, the test lamp should light, the idle speed should increase, and cold air should come out from air vents. Report what happened.

Edited 7 January, 2016 by RicardoM

[IsmaelSK]

Thanks again Ricardo.

 

I'll tell you what happened. As you rightly say I do not trust much of the electrician.

 

But I have disassembled part of the board and press the button several times and cycled and turned off the air conditioning depending on how you pressed. I tightened the screws that secure the air and now works perfectly. Anyway, I'll remember this that I mentioned if fails again and thank you again for your patience and time invested.

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Gracias de nuevo Ricardo.

 

Te voy a decir que ha pasado. Como muy bien dices no me fio mucho del electricista.

 

Pero he desmontado parte del tablero  y presioné el boton varias veces y  se encendía y apagaba  el aire acondicionado dependiendo de como lo presionara. He apretado bien los tornillos que sujetan la pieza y ahora el aire funciona perfectamente. De todas maneras tendré en cuenta todo esto que me ha mencionado por si vuelve a fallar y gracias de nuevo por su paciencia y tiempo invertido.

[RicardoM]

For those of you that didn't understand what I was trying to achieve using the test lamp, here is the logic behind it. Our friend stopped diagnosing further, so at least I could explain what my next step after the previous functional test would have been.

 

A random event, a technical fault in our case, is very difficult to diagnose. Many variables come into play and we can't predict when and why the event will happen. So we need a few objective little 'spies' to inform us if the area they supervised is working or not when the fault will occur. How many spies? Well, it depends of the complexity of the system we observe. In a wiring diagram there are always important nodes (like major crossroads) where signals traveling across the wires should have specific values at a specific time. So each node needs a spy. A spy can be a small bulb, a LED, a buzzer, etc.

 

In our case, the air conditioning stops randomly no matter if the car is stationary or rolling. So we need to find a method to monitor our spies all the time in such a way that we catch the fault 'in the act'. Our system needs 3 spies, 2 in those points I specified in my previous post, and one at pin 6 of the relay (thin yellow wire). Let's call them S5, S8, and S6. We can use 3 small 12V bulbs or 12V LEDs of different colors with long enough wires to bring them inside the cabin in our view. After we have installed them, we turn on the A/C. All 3 bulbs should lit steadily. Not dim, not flickering.

 

Now we go on our way and wait for the random A/C shutoff to happen. As soon we feel the air is not cold, we watch the spies.

• If all are lit, the clutch of the compressor is energized but it slips. We need to check its gap.
• If S5 is off and the other two are lit, we have a bad A/C control unit or a faulty sensor
• If S5 and S8 are off and S6 is lit, we have a bad relay
• If all spies are off, we have a faulty on/off switch

Any flickering indicates bad contacts or bad wiring in the area monitored by the spy.

 

I hope I was not boring and you got the concept of diagnosing those difficult, hard to catch intermittent failures.

 

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Para aquellos de vosotros que no entiendo lo que estaba tratando de lograr con la lámpara de prueba, aquí es la lógica detrás. Nuestro amigo canceló el diagnóstico, por lo que al menos podría explicar cuál habría sido mi siguiente paso después de la prueba de funcionamiento descrito previamente.

 

Un evento aleatorio, un fallo técnico en nuestro caso, es muy difícil de diagnosticar. Muchas variables entran en juego y no podemos predecir cuándo y por qué el evento va a suceder. Entonces necesitamos unos pequeños 'espías' objetivas que nos informe si el área supervisado está funcionando o no cuando se producirá el fallo. ¿Cuántos espías? Bueno, depende de la complejidad del sistema que observamos. En un diagrama de cableado siempre hay nodos importantes (como intersecciónes de carreteras importantes) donde las señales que viajan a través de los cables deben tener valores específicos en un momento específico. Así que cada nodo necesita un espía. Un espía puede ser una pequeña bombilla, un LED, un zumbador, etc.

 

En nuestro caso, el aire acondicionado se detiene al azar, no importa si el coche está parado o rodando. Así que tenemos que encontrar un método para monitorear nuestros espías todo el tiempo de tal manera que cogemos la culpa "en el acto". Nuestro sistema necesita 3 espías, 2 en aquellos puntos que especifiqué en mi post anterior, y uno en el pin 6 del relé (alambre fino amarillo). Vamos a llamar les S5, S8, y S6. Podemos utilizar 3 bombillas pequeños o 12V LED de diferentes colores con alambres de longitud suficiente para llevarlos dentro de la cabina, a la vista. Después de que los hemos instalado, encendemos el A/C. Los 3 bombillas deben iluminar plenamente. No oscuro y no parpadeo.

 

Ahora esperamos a que el A/C se apaga al azar. Tan pronto sentimos que el aire no es fría, miramos a los espías.

• Si todos están encendidos, el embrague del compresor se activa pero patina. Tenemos que comprobar su brecha.
• Si S5 está apagado y los otros dos están encendidos, tenemos una unidad de control A/C mala o un sensor defectuoso
• Si S5 y S8 están apagados y S6 se enciende, tenemos una mala relé
• Si todos los espías están apagados, tenemos un interruptor on / off defectuoso

Cualquier parpadeo indica malos contactos o mal alambrado en la zona controlada por el espía.

 

Espero que has aprendido el concepto de diagnóstico por atrapar fallas intermitentes.

Edited 8 January, 2016 by RicardoM

[IsmaelSK]

Ricardo, excellent explanation and very good idea to place spies. Thank you very much for all the help provided.

[CrAzY_DrIveR]

On 30/12/2015 at 06:13, RicardoM said:

 

hi where can i find the top part of this fusebox schematic?

 

http://i.imgur.com/hKAvqDG.jpg