All you do is take a bolt out and insert the pin. Do up the pin until the collar touches the subframe so it acts a guide.

This is all fine assuming the subframe is in the right place to start with lol.

The pins will centralise the holes in the subframe relative to the holes in the chassis, which is all you need, no?

That's the idea

The pins will centralise the holes in the subframe relative to the holes in the chassis, which is all you need, no?

Why are the collars the other way around on the eBay ones compared to the MM ones? I'd have thought the MM ones look correct, the eBay ones look like they are the wrong way up.

Why are the collars the other way around on the eBay ones compared to the MM ones? I'd have thought the MM ones look correct, the eBay ones look like they are the wrong way up.

I tend to agree. Looks like they've been assembled wrongly.

 

If I make some, I think they'll be more like the MM ones, but just a conical bit of nylon/similar with an M12 fine-pitch caphead up the middle? Or are they M10s?

 

Hmm, some here for £24 delivered, with right-way-round-looking collets...tempting.

Edited 23 February, 201610 yr by Wino

I imagine on the the other ones they can be reversed by slipping the O rings off.

I found a set on Amazon this morning at £14 delivered (last one sorry) and couldn't resist, so I should have a set to play with early next week.  What's confusing me a little is that the bolts they fit in place of seem to be 75mm long, going through 50mm of alloy console before they get to chassis. These T10096 things don't look long enough? :confused:

Delivered today, and confirmed my inkling that the whole of the conical/parallel, o-ring-bound bit fits completely up inside the front and rear holes in the console, I'll get some pics and dimensions tomorrow or maybe later if I get bored.  Need to read whatever instructions I can find too, which I'm sure I've seen somewhere.

Delivered today, and confirmed my inkling that the whole of the conical/parallel, o-ring-bound bit fits completely up inside the front and rear holes in the console, I'll get some pics and dimensions tomorrow or maybe later if I get bored.  Need to read whatever instructions I can find too, which I'm sure I've seen somewhere.

 

So it works or doesn't work? :P

Well I'd say they're going to work. Haven't been near a car with them, but testing them up a spare console, they fit up inside the front and rear holes that mount the console to the chassis, tight, but go.

Hope mine arrive. Steering rack is fubar now... bleeding car! :(

I've managed so far to cheat myself out of buying a set as in the final analysis, if the car still needs a four wheel re-alignment to feel and wear tyres correctly, what have you achieved, just my thoughts, though I'm sure that there is still a space in my garage for a set!

I've managed so far to cheat myself out of buying a set as in the final analysis, if the car still needs a four wheel re-alignment to feel and wear tyres correctly, what have you achieved, just my thoughts, though I'm sure that there is still a space in my garage for a set!

Four wheel alignment can't correct castor problems, the only adjustment is fore/aft console position relative to chassis, which is what these pins do for you, AIUI.

Four wheel alignment can't correct castor problems, the only adjustment is fore/aft console position relative to chassis, which is what these pins do for you, AIUI.

 

How come, castor is one of the measurements taken and checked against manufacturer's data, if I put one of these cars in for a four wheel alignment and castor was not included in "check and adjust", I'd feel a bit aggrieved.

I think on a lot of cars, adjustment would be easier, and not require the whole subframe to be freed off, nor any special tools to centre it. The M12 bolts that hold the consoles to the body go through 17mm diameter holes in the consoles (allowing a few mm of adjustment if the chassis isn't 100% straight from new, I guess?). Hence the special tools to centre them.

 

I think most alignment places would tell you that castor isn't adjustable on the Fabia/Polo.

In fact, VAG say it isn't, but intriguingly, they say that camber is, by this self-same adjustment of console position relative to chassis (but inboard/outboard in this case I guess).

Edited 1 March, 201610 yr by Wino

I've only ever used a VW main dealer and VAG indie for four wheel alignment on the 9N Polo.

 

I think that it was said somewhere that these cars were, due to their original target (Skoda) market, were designed to be able to be set up using crude or otherwise "non specialised" repairer - as opposed to - say - same Fords that had dowel pins to ensure "exact" location of things like subframes - seem to remember even Ford moved away from that idea as well!

 

You think that VAG claiming "no adjustment" while being generous with through hole sizes is bad, SEAT claimed that camber adjustment was not possible in the old 6K platform - while providing for that very adjustment "camber adjusting" profiled fixing bolts - I found that out and had to point it out to the "top tech" at Arnold Clarke Edinburgh many years ago, that let them sort out a badly aligned (probably cuffed a kerb) Ibiza daughter bought from them. A bit like Ford with the early front wheel drive Escort, "no there is any allowance for rear toeing adjustment!" - so after complaining about uneven wear rear tyre wear and now just out of warranty "that will be £40 for adjusting rear toe" ?? seems like Ford now having complaints needed to sort things out by supplying kits with washers to use as spacers on the toe control rods!!   I wised up with my next Orion Injection, and complained within warranty and told them to "swing" for the attempted charging me for sorting it was I now knew it was a known issue.

 

Onwards and upwards!

 

Edit:- just one thing that might be relevant, "is castor and (front) camber adjustable on these VAG cars?" - no, "can castor and (front) camber be (slightly) altered without replacing any parts?" - yes, by selective repositioning of consoles and subframe within existing through hole allowances, with maybe a small bit more at the lower swivel mounting points.

Edited 2 March, 201610 yr by rum4mo

Yeah, I'd agree with that last bit, good summary.  For the OP, it's about correcting something that's been mis-positioned, probably at some time in the car's history when *perhaps* both consoles came off at the same time for re-bushing and weren't put back where they came from.

 

Which leads me back to a rather belated dawning of understanding regarding Tech1e's comment earlier "This is all fine assuming the subframe is in the right place to start with lol."

I didn't get that at the time, but think I may do now. I had thought that these pins pulled everything straight/centred by the conical surface forcing the console holes to be centred on the chassis threads, but that's not how they work. The whole pins fit up inside the console holes completely.

Due to the slot in the conical bit, the console hole can actually be offset w.r.t. the chassis threads, by a few mm in the direction opposite where the slot is facing:

 

         

 

These pins don't really centre the consoles/subframe with respect to the chassis, so much as allow you to replace it in the same position it was if you take it off.  So the pin can 'find its position' that fixes the relationship between that console hole and that chassis thread, as you tighten the pin against the chassis.  Then when you come to refit the subframe/consoles they have to go back in the same place, as you replace the pins with bolts one by one.

 

If you actually want/need to adjust the position of the consoles and subframe, you don't really need them; you just need to loosen all four main console to chassis bolts (two each side) and carefully reposition the whole thing to where you want/need it. I think.

 

Apologies to anyone who thinks this is all obvious, but no-one explained it clearly enough for me to get it.

Edited 2 March, 201610 yr by Wino

Blimey, this is complicated business. Bloody VAG

Think of it as four big holes rigidly fixed to each other and the subframe (which the steering rack sits on), bolted up to four fixed threads in the chassis. If the whole thing was twisted one side fully forwards, other side rearwards, as far as the 17mm holes/M12 bolts combo allows, there'd be a castor mismatch between left and right. If instead, the whole subframe was as far as possible to the left or right as those big holes allowed, there'd be a camber mismatch; too much one side, not enough on t'other.

You can have both these things going on at once, and in either case the toe settings are going to be affected, I feel sure, as the whole steering rack is twisting or translating relative to the chassis.

 

Time to finish my wine...

^ I get ya. Enjoy your wine

Edited 2 March, 201610 yr by TMB