I've previously serviced ( about 3-4 years ago now can't recall exactly ) brakes all round with Pagid all round and was generally good. On an 06 Fabia. Don't do the miles so much now hence why they have lasted.

 

Since I've owned the car on rare occasion got complete loss of (vacuum?) assistance, but literally just a handful of times in many, many years, so far from frequent.

If anything I've just lost a "progressive" feeling of the brakes is the key thing, I am assuming a good all round bleed might help a lot but not sure about the drop and overall function of the pedal itself.

 

Compared to Mk3 octy where you can literally start breaking, then if you wanted just keep pushing to stop on a dime, its a far greater effort on the Fabia but will stop, and passed MOTs.

 

Other than usual wear of the brakes, other than a bit of an imbalance at the back with a stuck caliper on the rear, requiring a new pad they are otherwise pretty solid all around despite being used, but break powers not so good so presuming maybe just a brake fluid change would be in order as thats also a few years

Would it be premature to pay the £130 ish for a new all round pads and discs set Pagids from ECP at the same time ? Would there be any point ? Could even go further and look at servicing or replacing the calipers too ?

Or would it be better spent JUST bleeding the brakes and replacing the vacuum hoses ?

 

I had a bit of a look and feel under the bonnet just to satify and I just don't see any obvious splits etc though. Could I start car and get someone to pump brake while feeling around the pipes to get any feeling of loss perhaps ?

I wonder as a cheap version 1 check could maybe clean all the pipes and literally wrap in tape just to get a cheap immediate feel for whether this might be a deterioration somewhere ?

 

Thanks for any ideas

Edited 9 March, 201610 yr by vRSAnt

You probably have a vacuum leak somewhere, it's very common for the servo vac pipe to split where it pushes onto the barbs.

If you think you're losing vacuum assistance, then the problem must be in the vacuum pump, lines or servo unit. Don't expect to fix it by changing discs and/or pads.

I've had a good, proper look round all the pipes connected to the silver vaccuum at the right facing the engine ( pipes seem to go everywhere, to coolant, fuel filter, water, etc, and to the back then back around to where the brake fluid is)

If there is a split, its certainly far from obvious so not badly deteriorated that I can see ! Hence why I'm thinking maybe its just bleeding ?

 

Its actually quite spongy (ish) even without the vaccuum assistance without being turned over. Nothing at all really as bad as when vaccuum kicks in and the pedal then drops on start where it seems, but not rock hard either.

 

Both off, and car on, both seem to benefit from repeated pumping to get the brake hard. WIth the car on and pushing pedal it does initially sink as mentioned, and sort of continue to slowly do so but never hits right to the floor.

 

Almost tempted to drop into a specialist and have it sorted properly at this point, although shouldn't need to as I have 2 cars !

PS I haven't lost vaccuum assistance for ages.

I think it was on a handful of occasions, maybe after driving spiritedly then approaching a junction and at the very last part of braking that I've noticed it.

 

Maybe not for about a year to be honest was last time I actually noticed it, so far from frequently happening. Maybe about once a year if that lol in all the 10 or so years I've had the car from new. Is it possible to experience that infrequently without a full on vaccuum fault.

Just get the brake and clutch fluid changed then.

Great hope that makes the difference ! Already got an eezibleeder which I used last time so I could do this myself.

I don't think the brakes on the Fabia have ever really been that rock solid though to be honest whether from new or after bleeding ?

 

I'm really impressed by the O3 brakes which is what I'm comparing against  for all the 10 years or so I've had the car I don't ever recall being that impressed by the brakes - a bit unfairly admittedly !

I've just completely replaced my brakes on my 07 fabia vrs, just like your self I had a rubbish brake feel before and very much though I had a vacuum leak. They would stop you just needed a fair bit of effort. With new discs and pads all round and new fluid and now the brakes are 1000 times better. What I discovered was that while the discs looked fine from the front the back was all burnt out. Pretty much all my slider pins where frozen as well. I went for Brembo discs and pads and pagid fluid and seams a good combo.

Thanks, reassuring that you had a situation like me - confidence that a simple all round brake service may help.

I'm not against actually - although having said that they don't look in bad shape but like you said its the less obvious things like lubricating the sliding pins etc. If you are gonna take it apart like that for the sake of £140 probably worth making them like new again?

 

Not sure if I should service calipers at the same time ( maybe sent away?). Suppose it would be rude not too if you are going to fully rebuild the brake system to more like new, so guess I'll factor that in.

 

Think I will wait until we have more dependable good weather to be honest as I will bleed brakes with new fluid then when its nice and dry so no chance of hydoscopic effect of fluid while I'm filling? ( although I don't imagine its that "quick" is it so I guess its fine anytime its not raining to replace fluid)

 

If after that I still find the brakes inadequate, well I can look at replacing the vaccuum pipes anyway !

To rule it out is there any sort of hearing of the pipes hiss or something, if I started the car and got someone else to brake so I can check vacuum pipes aren't leaking or anything I wonder ?

To tell if you have a vacuum leak then before you start the car first thing try pressing the brake pedal, is it hard or can you feel some servo assistance?

Aside from intermittent loss of vac assistance, replacing the calliper seals must improve the feel if the car is getting on a bit, but something that gets over looked is probably the need to deglaze the discs and pads by giving them a rub with abrasive paper/pad - I for one never seem to get round to doing that while I have the brakes apart for their annual clean up.

To tell if you have a vacuum leak then before you start the car first thing try pressing the brake pedal, is it hard or can you feel some servo assistance?

 

Thanks for this.

 

Yes they feel pretty hard on initial pressing with car off, okay a bit spongey, but they only go down part way, far less than when its started.

First press with car off does go down almost the same amount, but after 2nd and continuous after that ( car off ) its just rock hard, like most other cars I've had.

 

I should do a better job of describing of what happens when the cars ON.

 

I think many people get the initial "sink" of the pedal when you start right? Its normal ? That what it does at first, sink quite a bit down to its "initial" position

If you pump it ( car on) then it does remain firm, but then if you keep continuous firm pressure then it does seem to slide toward the floor very slowly.

 

If you firmly and continuously push hard on the brake it sort of continues to sink, it doesn't reach as far as the left foot clutch pushed in, but its a lot lot closer than if you hadn't started the car with vaccuum assistance, certainly.

So this IS looking like vaccuum leak you think ?

PS - I think at least 2 threads describe this as "normal" and a diesel effect of vaccuum but I'm not entirely convinced and think the brakes could be better.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/91416-vrs-brake-pedal-going-down/

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/27858-spongy-brakes/

 

It could be seals and vaccuum are not as good as they first were ( although I'm honest, the fabia brakes from new have always been a tad "soft" and nothing like a lot of other cars).

 

The net of this sounds like replacing the discs and pads could be expensive and unnecessary then as they still have meat, and better spent looking at other things like maybe seals, pipes, bleeding etc.