Canton Speaker Problem?

[markmoran87]

I noticed today when adjusting the balance/fader on the Canton sound system that the lower mid/bass speakers in the rear doors seem to do almost nothing.

If I adjust the fader to the front there's lots of sound from the lower (large) speakers in the front doors, however if I adjust the fader all the way to the rear, then there's almost no sound from the large speakers in the rear doors.

Would anyone else with an L&K (Canton Sound System) mind checking if yours is the same please so I can tell if it's a fault or not?

I will be contacting the dealer soon regarding a few other issues so wanted to know if this one needs adding to the list or not.

[dstev2000]

I think the larger speakers in the rear doors are actually just midrange speakers. The large speakers in the front are woofers, smaller speakers in the middle are midrange and of course the tweeters are at the top. The subwoofer should compliment the rear midrange speakers. 

 

Have you tried it with a few different audio sources, and with the Canton optimisation switched off/adjusted etc? You can also set the Canton system to optimise for the front of the car and driver only. 

 

For example: I have some films on an SD card that are encoded in Dolby Digital, so most of the dialogue is coming from the speaker in the middle of the dash. When it's a quiet part of a film with just dialogue, virtually nothing comes out of the other speakers in the car. 

 

I'll have a mess about with my Canton system a bit later on and see what's what. 

[l4wrence]

My first thought is check Canton Optimisation is set to 'All', not 'Front' or 'Driver'. It's in the sound settings menu.

[Shhhkoda]

I have the Canton and played around a bit this morning with it on the way to work. Whilst I really like the overall sound for its clarity and openess the bass does lack a slight punch with some source material which I compensate for by boosting the bass.

However I did play around with the balance and there is sound coming from the rear door speakers but to be honest it's pretty weedy. The rear door speakers are only tweeters and mid range and to be honest the mid range is so light it sounds like only the tweeters are working. You can hear the bass from the sub in the boot but the rear door speakers in isolation are pretty poor, I think if you had a full range speaker in the rear door it would really fill the sound. Skoda missed a trick there, and now I know about it I'm a bit miffed.

I don't know if replacing them with some reasonable priced full range speakers would do the trick because the crossover might limit the frequency anyway. I would be interested to know if replacing them would make a difference because for not much cost I think it would make a dramatic difference to the overall sound. Anybody out there in the know who could help? If you raise it with the dealer I would be interested to know what they say but I guess they would say that's how the system is designed.

[Shhhkoda]

I should add in my settings I have my treble set to +1, midrange +4, bass +5. If you have your mid range set normal I should imagine the sound would be even weaker with just the rear doors working.

[markmoran87]

Thanks for checking this in your cars, at least I now know it's more of a design problem/feature rather than a fault.

I have got the Canton optimization set to "All", the fader set all the way to the rear, and also to isolate the rear door speakers I turned the subwoofer all the way down, I could definitely hear the tweeters, can't really say I could hear much midrange, and definitely no bass.

If that's how they are designed to be they seem rather pointless, I can't image anyone would notice the difference if they were disconnected.

I think the overall quality of the Canton sound system is very good but that lets it down a little in my opinion, well that and the vibration from the high level brake light cover can be very noticeable at times. I was able to pin point where it was coming from using an iPhone app called "Signal Gen" playing a sine wave which you can vary the frequency until the vibration was noticeable.

[dstev2000]

I had a tinker with the Canton system earlier today. I backed the sub right off and threw the fader right to the back of the car. The sound completely lacked any midrange clout. It sounded like just the tweeters were working but there was also a little sound coming from the mids in the rear doors. 

 

I am guessing the entire system has been optimised for an all round listening experience, including the subwoofer. 

 

Overall I am very happy with the Canton system. It plays any music I can throw at it very loudly with no distortion or the impression it is running out of puff. 

[markmoran87]

I have just been looking at the workshop manual for the Skoda Superb III and it would seem that all the speakers in the lower parts of the doors, front and rear, are the same part, the document refers to them both as "Bass Speaker".

 

See the attached screen grab.

 

[Shhhkoda]

I have just been looking at the workshop manual for the Skoda Superb III and it would seem that all the speakers in the lower parts of the doors, front and rear, are the same part, the document refers to them both as "Bass Speaker".

 

See the attached screen grab.

 

ScreenGrab.png

That's interesting, that implies there is a decent speaker in there but it's limited by a crossover. I'm happy with the overall sound but can't help thinking a bit more clout from the rear doors by using them as bass speakers would make it even better.

[Kungfugerbil]

I must admit the last time I was into car audio I had a mk2 fiesta. Back then it was the done thing to have a high quality amp driving component speakers up front with crossover, sub in the boot and....nothing in the rear. Literally nothing, no-one bothered really. I'm not too distraught that the rears are lacking - they're only really 'fill-in' to me.

Having said that they work ok with Dolby 5.1 surround so they can't be terrible... I suppose they only really need to provide mid-high frequencies as the low are not directional.

[markmoran87]

I am also happy with the overall sound of the Canton system too, only really stumbled upon it by accident and initially thought it could be a fault. It would now seem that it was intentional by Skoda, although still don't fully understand why.

[dstev2000]

It's possible there could have been too much bass...

 

I am guessing this system was balanced and fully set up in a test car by some acoustic bods at Canton at some stage. They may have raised the crossover frequency on the rear door speakers to limit the low frequency output for the rear of the car.

 

The rear speakers set to full range in conjunction with the sub in the boot might have chucked out excessive levels of bass for the rear passengers. 

 

Physically the rear speakers may be full range woofers, but they've probably been set up via the DSP/Amp to be more like midrange speakers. 

 

Either way, they seem to have done a decent job with it. 

[thewinelake]

Happy with the overall sound, but the sound when faded to the back is so weedy that there must be something wrong. It could be a software problem. I've not sat in the back and listened, and the front speakers are driven nicely. Had a real "road to Damascus" experience last week (although it was actually the road to Kentish Town) listening to a radio 3 live broadcast of the Sinfonia playing The Rite of Spring (a piece I'd never been keen on before)

[thewinelake]

This one has been bugging me - so I've sent messages both to Skoda UK and Canton requesting clarification as to whether this is working as designed, and if so why?!

Doubt I'll get a response, mind!

[fenechy]

Got talking about the Canton in another thread and it got me thinking that it could just be that the system is set up for either front stage sound imaging or 5.1 surround. One school of thought with car audio is that you want all the sound coming from the front. Because bass is omnidirectional the sub can go in the back where there is space but your mid bass, mids and treble you want in the front so as to create a sound image across the dash. That's for audio reproduction but the Canton system is also able to do DD 5.1 surround. In that case the 'rears' would come from the passenger doors and wouldn't need to be able to produce the same depth as the fronts.

In short, I'd say the system is designed with only the driver and front passenger in mind (and the 'driver' profile backs this up). The 'all speaker' profile is probably intended to provide a bit more volume only. I've installed audio in every car I've had and I've never put speakers in the back. It is virtually impossible to give the rear passengers an accurate sound stage so in my cars, they've always had to suffer bag loads of bass (from a 12" sub in the boot) and very little of the balanced sound from up front.

I could be completely wrong on all of this. It is just a theory but if you are asking Skoda, you could also try Canton. Probably be harder to find the right person at Canton but easier to get an accurate answer. Can imagine some 'fobbing off' from Skoda if they don't know - which they are unlikely to. Let us know how you go though.

[thewinelake]

Yes, I agree with you, except that if one wants to accomplish the simple aim of letting the kids listen to some music while Mum & Dad talk in the front - and bugger the sound stage - then I can see that fading to the back would/should be a way to achieve that. As it is, fading to the back has no discernable purpose!

 

And I did write to Canton as well - let's see if anyone responds....

Edited 6 June, 2016 by thewinelake

[fenechy]

Yes, I agree with you, except that if one wants to accomplish the simple aim of letting the kids listen to some music while Mum & Dad talk in the front - and bugger the sound stage - then I can see that fading to the back would/should be a way to achieve that. As it is, fading to the back has no discernable purpose!

 

And I did write to Canton as well - let's see if anyone responds....

I hear you and as a father of two young girls, I know that what you actually mean is that if one wants to fade to the back and then turn up full volume to drown out the whining and arguing so mum and dad can actually talk - Canton has let us down on this front. Agreed!

[thewinelake]

Canton have responded. I think it's fair to say that they have no input on the "clever" part of the system (UI & DSP) so I'm absolving them of any blame for a "non-answer" ;-)

 

Dear Sir,

Thank you very much for your email.

Please note that we only supply a few speaker components to Skoda.
The remaining fine tuning is up to the Skoda's sound engineers.

We recommend to ask Skoda directly in this matter.

We kindly ask you for understanding that we can't help in this case.


Mit freundlichen Grüßen 7 Kind regards

Lukas Reiter
Kundendienstleiter / Head of Customer Service

[fenechy]

Canton have responded. I think it's fair to say that they have no input on the "clever" part of the system (UI & DSP) so I'm absolving them of any blame for a "non-answer" ;-)

 

Dear Sir,

Thank you very much for your email.

Please note that we only supply a few speaker components to Skoda.

The remaining fine tuning is up to the Skoda's sound engineers.

We recommend to ask Skoda directly in this matter.

We kindly ask you for understanding that we can't help in this case.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen 7 Kind regards

Lukas Reiter

Kundendienstleiter / Head of Customer Service

Ok, so Canton supply the speakers. I wonder who makes the amps and sound processor. It is funny how hard it can be to get this info. Or is it just funny that we're such nerds that we pursue it?! Sorry, I speak for myself only as being a nerd.

[thewinelake]

I thought someone said that the DSP was Alpine?

[philpix]

I thought someone said that the DSP was Alpine?

I asked that in another thread and was told Alpine.

[junglejimsvet]

I am pretty sure there is an issue on some of these systems - my sound used to be pretty good then one day I had a click through the speakers and since then only get negligible sound through rear door speakers (not just weedy, pretty much nothing).  Sound was definitely 8 out of 10 before this and is now a 4 out of 10 so a significant difference.

[FRSkoda]

The bit I find interesting is that there are bits that are directed at a luxurious rear seat - things like the ability to move the passenger seat forward from the rear seat to free up even more leg-room, the 240V and USB sockets in the rear and the ipad holders etc - all aimed at the car being ideal for chauffeur driven (OK realistically posh taxi / airport transfer service ) but the canton is set up only to cater for front seat passengers getting the best sound - no sound focus for rear seat passengers and limited speakers in the rear... which also means its useless if the kids are in the back and you want to set the system up for them.. Given that they could have just as easily limited the speakers on the fly (ie via settings) as they could do by hardwiring it... seems like they missed a trick on that one.