Help!   This one is driving me mad and has out me off road

A few weeks ago I    decided to change radio from original to different model.  I found same as others have that there was a constant live feed,  and was about after good advice on this forum to turn it into a switched feed  BUT – I never actually got around to it at that time.   The wires cut from original radio are just left hanging, but are all insulated with blocks etc and are not shorting etc with only 1 showing live on meter ( now left insulted)

 

A day or two later – battery  totally  flat.    Charged battery, pick up started no problem used for about a week, then one morning totally  flat.  After charge ran OK.   Took vehicle to auto electrician who tested it – confirmed battery was not perfect and down a little but would not be main problem.     I had a spare battery from past, again probably not perfect but usable and after a charge was put on , pick up started and ran no problem for about a week ( not used every day)  then -   totally flat again.

 

The starter motor had always for years sounded  a bit lazy but vehicle always started after about half a turn.  In desperation,  bought new starter and now things turns over perfectly and starts.  After about 7 – 10 days goes completely flat and will not even light dash lights

 

Ahhhh    I know you will say. Parasytic  draw.  However with  negative lead connected and meter between terminal and post I am only getting a reading on the 20 milliamp  scale of   2.5milliamp.  I have tested it over and over again

 

On 10amp scale on meter  no reading at all just 0.0000

 

Just in case have removed interior light completely, the door switches( for that light)  the fuse for clock etc.

When running  test always showed over 14 volts.     Battery day after day showed over 12,6v

 

Changed alternator for a spare one  I had  , and had this tested before I put it on.  No help

 

I have a brand new battery, but am reluctant to put it on yet in case there is some intermittent fault.  The big problem is that the thing can last for up to 10 days with no problem and then strike!  Everyone blames me for taking radio out ! but surely that cannot be it ?   I cannot find any drain using meter.  Totally stuck

 

Something must be draining battery but is just not showing up on test.  Could it be an intermittent fault with something coming on by itself on some occasion?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Advice #1: calm down. We'll find the problem.
 
Now, since the problem started right after you installed a new radio, we have to think there is a problem with the installation. Statistically speaking, the battery gets flat most often due to aftermarket devices (audio equipment, alarms, central lockings, CB radios, remote starters, etc.)
 
My first question is this: why did you create a new topic while you opened already another one titled Radio wiring again on Jamuary 19th? You had good replies in there. I drew an installation diagram for your radio (a cheap eBay model). Did you follow it exactly? If yes, my first culprit on the list is the radio itself.

Hi Ricardo

 

I was hoping ( praying you would get on case)

 

First - I never fitted the new radio.   I had the advice you  gave and intended to do so within a few days but got diverted  with other work   ( I have a m/cycle trials shop)   It was a day or so  later when battery went flat,  so I never progressed with radio.    I am glad of this now as  I could have made mistake joining to wrong place or something,   but   there has been no radio  fitted   and I have just left all the radio wires dangling in place - but insulated.  That is why I started a new post i.e it is not a radio wiring problem ( wish it was)   but a battery drain problem or such.  Only my wife and  son deduce I have caused a problem by taking out old radio!

 

Hope you can help with the now more serious query.

I was hoping ( praying you would get on case)

Anyone can send me an e-mail to ask for private help. My e-mail address is public, see my signature.

In case the solution might interest the forum community too, I will publish the conclusiohs of the case in this section without mentioning any names.

 

Only my wife and  son deduce I have caused a problem by taking out old radio!

We'll see if they're right. I will not speculate for now.

 

I thought you installed the radio. My bad.

Soooo... the first thing that comes to mind is some uninsulated wire dangling around behind the dashboard and making random short to gtound. The second thing would be a wet relay/fuse panel.

 

What radio model did you have on your car? How many wires did you cut / insulated? What colour they have?

Other parasitic draw might come from the boot lamp or other interior lamp.

Hi Ricardo   Thanks for reply

 

Radio was Blauounkt     Numbers on it   ACR Skoda    BP 5510T142557   

 

                                                                                       7    645   510   364

 

There were 11 wires -  I just cut them an inch or so from black casing on back or radio holder( the   thin tin

one that slides out after the radio has been slid out)

 

Wires were -  RED  - only one I can pick voltage off

 

1  Yellow       2  Plain Brown       1  Brown with black strip      1  Light Grey     1  Light Grey & Black stripe

 

                     1  Light Green         1 Light Green & Black stripe     1  Light Blue     1  Light Blue & Black stripe

 

No wires touching and red definitely insulated

 

I see what you mean about a wire occasionally touching/shorting   but looking up under  dashboard ( difficult of course) I can see nothing amiss, and nothing has been moved/removed/worked on there

 

No boot light - it is a pick up.  I have removed interior light completely just in case and insulated wires

 

I have removed the door switches from the two doors ( and insulated wires) in case there was a sticking fault

 

You suggestion of fuse box is one someone else also made.     For sure over years I have had leaks from windscreen ( now cured before this trouble)  so yes fuse box may have got wet

 

It is a sort of door that flaps down.  There is nothing obviously amiss. I have tested fuses etc.  I do not know if it could come apart to see behind the actual fuses ?  There are some very small countersink screws,  I have not taken them out in case it all falls to bits - but could try to see behind

 

No obvious corrosion anywhere I can see with wires leaving fuse box.  The same guy who mentioned fuse box ( he was thinking back a lot of years) also suggested it could be one of the relays in the fuse box  occasionaly sticking - but not sure how I would test these ?

 

It would actually be better for me if the battery went flat more quickly as then I could try different things each day like changing relays and so on, but it is always about 7 - 10 days before battery flattens  so there is a big wait in between

 

Any ideas appreciated

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your next suggestion I think is a possiblity

A Diesel battery has 60-70 Ah capacity. A good battery could get totally flat overnight (for a crank) under a load of 40W or more. 40W means for instance brake lights on. As you might know, intermitent problems are hardest to diagnose. We need a clever plan to 'catch' it in the act.
 
1) For now leave the new battery aside. Do a hattery load test of existing battery and older spare one. An auto electrician should have a special device called battery load tester. You need to have both batteries fully charged prior testing. By the way, how old are the batteries?

 

2) Our discharge 'spy' will be the dome light. Of course restore its functionality first. Let's say you open the driver's door one morning and the dome light is off. The next moves are: switch off the dome light and open the bonnet. Don't touch anything else inside! No lever, no pedal, no ignition lock, nothing. Just pop the bonnet.

 

3) Take battery out. Install the older spare charged battery and measure immediately the current draw. Anything over 25 mA is bad. By the way, do you have any anti-theft/alarm system?

 

The idea behind this plan is to catch the parasitic load without disturbing any wires/contacts. The brake lights switch could be bad, the ignition switch, a.s.o.

 

The next move will involve dismantling the relay box. For now reseat all relays and fuses and check that no water sloshes inside.

Thanks for reply

 

I am not sure how to email you privately as suggested ?   What do you mean by " signature"   The   ricardomeran@ mail.com   shown in red at bottom dos not work.  Is there an address somewhere else?

 

Anyway back to problem

 

I can re-install interior light I think ( or find a new one if I damaged it taking it out)   but not so easy to replace the door button switches that work that light as they broke taking them out ( I insulated wires on each on and pushed them back into door pillars)  I can get at wires but would have to obtain new switches for your plan.      This is a working truck, so for sure I do not need an interior  light for future which was why I took this action .    I suppose I could get all working again but have to source switches.

 

Can I use something else for this plan.     If I am getting it correct your idea of the  interior light  light as a " spy"  is to be able to wait some time and be able to check if battery as totally drained ie the exact time it has happened?     By seeing the light not coming on it would show that I had  just  a flat battery before I switch anything else on or touch anything or use switch etc?

 

Could I use something else to do this ?   Example - If I get interior light working or just solder a similar wattage bulb to wires and put a  small switch  in line, so that when I enter cab each morning only thing I do is switch on and the time the light does not come on will tell me the battery has drained and then I can continue with test without touching anything else?

 

Or - is it a possibility perhaps to use something else as the spy.  Or what if only thing I did first each morning is put by meter set to volts to the live feed from radio ( now insulated but can put meter probe into terminal block)   and check if I have voltage.  First time I have no or seriously reduced volts will indicate it is or has just drained?

 

Re other questions - No there is no anti theft device fitted other than the normal Skoda Felicia ignition key immoboliser

 

Batteries:   I have a brand new one still in box - not fitted yet.  The one on the pick up when trouble started originally charged and worked for 7 days but then died.  After a re-charge worked OK again for some days then went flat.  Now it will not even take charge

 

The one on the vehicle now is an old one I had about - must have been from another vehicle in past. Quite a few years old, but after a charge works no problem until it drains.   Shall I take this one for load ets or just fit a   the new one?

 

Finally  just ro check that I am doing the drain test properly.  I am removing the negative lead from battery at terminal . Setting my meter to amps or milliamps ( to get the 2.5 milliamp reading)   putting one probe to the terminal and the other to the end of negative  lead I have removed.

 

I did see somewhewre ( or was told) it would be better if I could put meter in place without actually breaking the circuit  i.e  carefully remove negative with probes already making contact with negative lead and terminal as I loosened it off so current was not interrupted

 

Sorry  to take up so much room on posts - which i why the private email was a good idea and only conclusions posted 

I am not sure how to email you privately as suggested ?  

You're right, once I made the email address public, it is no more private But the idea is to email me anything you have problems to fit in a forum message. For instance many members have a hard time attaching photos to a forum message. Usually every forum has in each section a pinned topic that explains in detail for beginners how to do that. Sadly, although I suggested that to the admin of the forum, nothing came up.

 

What do you mean by " signature"  

The bottom test shown in every message posted by a member. Any member can set his own signature using his personal Control Panel.

 

The   [email protected]   shown in red at bottom dos not work.  Is there an address somewhere else?

It is quite vague what do you mean by "does not work". If you mean that you couldn't click on it so your email client pops up automatically... I corrected that. But you should make an effort to learn more about IT, Internet, and forums. It is only beneficial.

 

I can re-install interior light I think ( or find a new one if I damaged it taking it out)   but not so easy to replace the door button switches that work that light as they broke taking them out ( I insulated wires on each on and pushed them back into door pillars)  I can get at wires but would have to obtain new switches for your plan.      This is a working truck, so for sure I do not need an interior  light for future which was why I took this action .    I suppose I could get all working again but have to source switches.

I've assumed that in your quest for finding the reason for the battery drain, you bought new door switches and installed them. In fact you took out more and more stuff

 

Can I use something else for this plan.     If I am getting it correct your idea of the  interior light  light as a " spy"  is to be able to wait some time and be able to check if battery as totally drained ie the exact time it has happened?     By seeing the light not coming on it would show that I had  just  a flat battery before I switch anything else on or touch anything or use switch etc?

You got it right. Any 21W directional bulb with a switch will do as a spy for battery drain status.

 

Batteries:   I have a brand new one still in box - not fitted yet.  The one on the pick up when trouble started originally charged and worked for 7 days but then died.  After a re-charge worked OK again for some days then went flat.  Now it will not even take charge

Well, well, well... that is an important clue. A dying battery could drain randomly. The "paste" on the plates of the battery decays and falls at the bottom of the battery case causing random shorts. That is enough reason to find the battery tottally dead in the morning. Conclusion 1: one battery to the bin (or in exchange for a new one)

 

The one on the vehicle now is an old one I had about - must have been from another vehicle in past. Quite a few years old, but after a charge works no problem until it drains.   Shall I take this one for load ets or just fit a   the new one?

Conclusion 2: I think this battery is on its last leg too. That is why step 1 of my plan was a mandatory preliminary test of both batteries under load.

 

Finally  just ro check that I am doing the drain test properly.  I am removing the negative lead from battery at terminal . Setting my meter to amps or milliamps ( to get the 2.5 milliamp reading)   putting one probe to the terminal and the other to the end of negative  lead I have removed.

When you need to measure an unknown current, you start with the highest range (10 or 20A) Only then you can lower the range (ie 200mA)

 

I did see somewhewre ( or was told) it would be better if I could put meter in place without actually breaking the circuit  i.e  carefully remove negative with probes already making contact with negative lead and terminal as I loosened it off so current was not interrupted

Never heard of that method. You can measure the current in 3 ways: in series with an ammeter, over the wire with a clamp ammeter, or by measuring the voltage drop on a series resistance of known value and proper wattage.

Thanks Ricardo

 

The older battery fitted which had worked perfectly for over a week,  started truck without problem last  evening but then hardly turned it over this morning.  Still no battery drain showing with amp test between negative lead and terminal

 

I will fit the new battery today and also re-install the interior light bulb or similar set up to act as spy,  and also take the older battery for a load test to auto electricians.

 

I suspect it may take another week for the new battery to drain or for the interior light test to do its job

 

Will keep you informed

The older battery fitted which had worked perfectly for over a week,  started truck without problem last  evening but then hardly turned it over this morning.  Still no battery drain showing with amp test between negative lead and terminal

This battery may not drain itself like the other one but from your description it shows clear signs of weakness. Most people think that a battery dies conveniently slow. Sadly that is not the case. Batteries die abruptly. A test under load (500-600 W) will reveal any weakness.

Just to give an update

 

Now had no problems for several weeks.  Thanks RicardoM, your reply about the battery looked to be spot on, and since fitting the new one, all is OK.     Will leave for another week and will tackle the radio fitting again and run the feed from where you suggested

Well done! When everything will be properly installed and in good order, please click the Mark Solved button of the post you find most useful.