Gone Electric... Xav's Tesla thread

[KevC_Derby]

@Xavier Just finished reading your thread! Very interesting.

My experience started with energy recovery on construction equipment - first hydraulic storage and release when required but this soon moved onto generating electricity from the excess flow and its storage and subsequent release back into the system. The company bought an Ampera for evaluation which I thought was OK but a complete compromise and mirrors the thoughts of @BossFox . This moved onto an i3 RX which I got with 10% charge and a 1/4 tank of fuel. Stopped to refuel and couldn’t find the filler cap - it wasn’t marked and the panel gaps were amazing we (myself and 3 other people on the forecourt) couldn’t find it for ages. I was only able to charge it to 40% that night so never really got the true experience.

so next was the Tesla P80 (I think). Again someone had it before me so I only had it at 40% and only managed to recharge it to the same level next morning but I loved it, you and Richard have covered all my experiences and more in your posts.

 

So to the present days choice of cars. We run 2 cars on a 20 mile each nominal commute. SWMBO is in a Mini Cooper 1.5 petrol and I’m in a FL Octavia vRS 230. I’ve test driven the Golf GTE and Mini E but I couldn’t purchase either with the ridiculously short test drives they allowed. Mini dealers outside of Derby allowed 48hr test drives but not ours.

I think one of our next cars will be an EV, Mini is has 3yrs left on its PCP and there’s 18m left on my vRS lease so we will see if there’s a Clubman EV or a Model X replacement.

[Xavier]

The Tesla would have been a P85 - that's a bit of an animal being performance but rear wheel drive only! Very tail happy!

Your journey is also very interesting. It's a real shame that you didn't have the opportunity to embrace the whole EV thing on a longer scale than a 30 minute test drive. I know there are some supply issues, but moving to EV is more than just a car - you have to check that it works with your lifestyle, particularly those that don't have big range (assuming BEV and not a PHEV or other hybrid). See what it's like over a few days - how you charge at home, can you charge at work, etc.

 

The Jag IPace is great, although not for me - Tesla owners are genuinely spoilt with the Supercharger network for long distance driving.

 

But if you don't need 150 mile plus in a day, then there are a few options nowadays. The new Nissan Leaf, the 40kWh Renault Zoë, the impressive Hyundai Kona which is available in a 60kWh+ pack.

 

I honestly believe some of the "smaller" manufacturers and those that have been doing it for some time (Nissan / Renault) will likely trump the more established ones like the VAG as the latter have too much investment in ICE to just jump ship. The ongoing dieselgate (and its subsidiaries!) scandals...

 

Being a bit different, I would SO like Skoda to have a pure BEV but it's likely to be further down the line than VW / Audi releasing theirs.

[KevC_Derby]

We hire a lot of cars at work and the lack of an EV option is unbelievable. I’ve driven 170 miles this morning to Carlisle and would’ve loved an EV but I can’t even get the ICE group I ordered.

[Ryeman]

A new metric would be handy as a way of assessing range for money spent.  Would the new Leaf be top followed by e-Mini frinstance etc etc.

I’m hoping range/recharging isn’t too compromised by vehicle brand also.  Then there is the matter of preferred style/features etc.

It seems even more complicated finding an answer.

[Ryeman]

Shell’s plans -

https://electrek.co/2018/08/06/shell-invest-startup-ample-electric-cars-for-everyone-charging-tech/

[Ryeman]

Just saw a science/tech guy on Murdoch’s Sky News stating that the Tesla 60W ‘cheaper’ version was, in fact, a 75W version limited, via WiFi (Tesla) in order to profit by charging more for the extra range/power.........not cost related at all.

Apparently, during a recent emergency, Tesla logged in to each 60 and ‘adjusted’ it to 75, in order to flee the situation   !

I’m wondering if this was a ‘hit job’ or an interesting piece of factual information.

[wyx087]

The definitive metric for EV should not be a simple range test, that is old ICE car thinking.

 

EV should be rated by how long it takes to do 1000km/600miles in an ideal world. Tesla would have the advantage of charging at 100kw supercharging speed. While Kona is limited to 70kW due to voltage. Leaf 40 gets left behind by battery overheating. This rating will combine all factors important to a long range EV, and make sure they are well balanced: big enough battery but not too heavy, battery temperature management, battery charging voltage and amps, high speed aero and motor efficiency.

 

All Nissan Leaf so far would fail the above so bad. Hyundai is the only "mass" (Kona and Ioniq have low production number compared to Leaf) market manufacturer that may be able to compete with Tesla using the above rating. (as Tesla Bjorn shows in this Kona vs Model X 1000km race)

 

I still think a Tesla is the only viable replacement for long distance car. I wouldn't replace my dirty diesel Skoda with an IPace or Niro (Kona is too small), because both are CCS charging, which is still unreliable compared to Chademo I am enjoying on my Leaf. Tesla is the only company that gets EV, their supercharging network is well worth the premium they as on their cars.

[Ryeman]

^^^^^ Nissan’s Leaf LG liquid cooled battery move makes a big difference I guess (ref my battery thread).

[Xavier]

9 hours ago, Ryeman said:

A new metric would be handy as a way of assessing range for money spent.  Would the new Leaf be top followed by e-Mini frinstance etc etc.

I’m hoping range/recharging isn’t too compromised by vehicle brand also.  Then there is the matter of preferred style/features etc.

It seems even more complicated finding an answer.

I don't think that's a very valid metric - I agree more with wyx's response below.

9 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Shell’s plans -

https://electrek.co/2018/08/06/shell-invest-startup-ample-electric-cars-for-everyone-charging-tech/

The big energy companies are all at it. Shell buying The New Motion last year. More recently, BP buying Chargemaster... They're realising that relying on fossil alone isn't enough and you have to be in the game to win it. My guess is they'll look at also increasing their presence / deals with retailers, like M&S currently do with BP so people do their shopping by the traditional fuel station whilst their car tops up at a rapid charger.

3 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Just saw a science/tech guy on Murdoch’s Sky News stating that the Tesla 60W ‘cheaper’ version was, in fact, a 75W version limited, via WiFi (Tesla) in order to profit by charging more for the extra range/power.........not cost related at all.

Apparently, during a recent emergency, Tesla logged in to each 60 and ‘adjusted’ it to 75, in order to flee the situation   !

I’m wondering if this was a ‘hit job’ or an interesting piece of factual information.

This goes back a bit - it was with the floods / hurricanes in the US where they unlocked the software-limited 60kWh capacity to the battery's native 75kWh battery. Having OTA updates allows this kind of stuff. It's cheaper to manufacture one type of power source and software limit it than do several different ones. Just like some of the VAG engines are physically identical and differ simply by ECU programming.

54 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

^^^^^ Nissan’s Leaf LG liquid cooled battery move makes a big difference I guess (ref my battery thread).

I hope so. Nissan have really shot themselves in the food with Rapidgate on the new Leaf. It's such a shame. Arguably, it doesn't affect that many people - only those doing long trips which need several successive rapid charges, but the negative PR has been awful :(

What it does show though is that people are trying to use these cars on the limit of what the engineers thought people would do which is a good thing IMO - it's pushing the envelope and forcing continuous development.

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

The definitive metric for EV should not be a simple range test, that is old ICE car thinking.

 

EV should be rated by how long it takes to do 1000km/600miles in an ideal world. Tesla would have the advantage of charging at 100kw supercharging speed. While Kona is limited to 70kW due to voltage. Leaf 40 gets left behind by battery overheating. This rating will combine all factors important to a long range EV, and make sure they are well balanced: big enough battery but not too heavy, battery temperature management, battery charging voltage and amps, high speed aero and motor efficiency.

 

All Nissan Leaf so far would fail the above so bad. Hyundai is the only "mass" (Kona and Ioniq have low production number compared to Leaf) market manufacturer that may be able to compete with Tesla using the above rating. (as Tesla Bjorn shows in this Kona vs Model X 1000km race)

 

I still think a Tesla is the only viable replacement for long distance car. I wouldn't replace my dirty diesel Skoda with an IPace or Niro (Kona is too small), because both are CCS charging, which is still unreliable compared to Chademo I am enjoying on my Leaf. Tesla is the only company that gets EV, their supercharging network is well worth the premium they as on their cars.

Agreed!

I also find it fascinating how the "unlimited supercharging" thing isn't really costing Tesla that much but the perceived value for the end-user is MASSIVE and an exclusive Tesla perk. I'm approaching 50k miles in just over two years and my total electricity bill to date is less than what it would have cost me to do 500 miles in my old Fabia!

Despite having a "limited" range in mine of 250 miles, say, I'm doing more miles than I ever did in the Fabia. The range (once above 200) isn't an issue providing you have a decent-enough charging infrastructure. I regularly do my Reading - Pau (South West France) trip in a day on my own. That's 900 miles in a day on my own. It's just not a problem. It maybe takes an extra couple of hours compared to bombing along in my old Fabia where I'd just do one pitstop, grab a coffee and motor through. However, in the Fabia, it was a lot more tiring and did involve me writing off my first one à la Jason. With the Tesla, it's just so much more effortless and relaxing, especially with things like Autopilot.... Anyway, I'm repeating myself now.

 

Mind you, I say doesn't cost that much - the electricity itself isn't that expensive wholesale, it's the hardware and infrastructure that cost a small fortune. You're looking at over £1M for the larger Supercharger installs - between the cost of the chargers and huge step-down transformers and power supplies, it's eye-wateringly expensive.

Some time ago, Tesla disclosed that globally, their 4G data bill for all the cars worldwide was larger than the electricity bill for all the Superchargers...

[Ryeman]

Not a bad complement -

https://electrek.co/2018/09/01/tesla-roadster-embarrassing-supercar-maker-koenigsegg/

[Ryeman]

Return to dealership -

https://electrek.co/2018/09/05/tesla-battery-fire-la-without-crash/

[Xavier]

Talking of dealerships, whilst I commend Mercedes for revealing their first production EV, they didn't say much about it at all!

 

In other news, the Tesla Roadster 2 at the Basel show is quite something!

[Ryeman]

1 minute ago, Xavier said:

Talking of dealerships, whilst I commend Mercedes for revealing their first production EV, they didn't say much about it at all!

 

In other news, the Tesla Roadster 2 at the Basel show is quite something!

They don’t want more than a tease, I suspect, because it would have the effect of making some wait rather than buying current product.  (And they certainly won’t be telling you about the fancy new GPF on the new petrol cars either)

[Ryeman]

Well that was predictable -

https://electrek.co/2018/09/06/tesla-tsla-shorts-sue-elon-musk-class-action-take-private-tweet/

[Ryeman]

Does Lidar stand for detection of a lie ?.

http://x.e.crainalerts.com/ats/msg.aspx?sg1=c69d451214e8428c31a82a69ead644a3

[Ryeman]

More on the matter of survival -

https://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/opinion-why-tesla-s-future-looks-bleak-119378.html

[Xavier]

I'll admit I don't read most of these posts.

 

Expert analysts have been predicting Tesla's doom for years, but they're still here.

 

Most of these sites work on clickbaits and hope to get the advertising revenue.

 

Now it's all about Elon smoking pot. But apparently, the webcast is really interesting (I haven't had the chance to listen to it yet).

[Ryeman]

25 minutes ago, Xavier said:

I'll admit I don't read most of these posts.

 

Expert analysts have been predicting Tesla's doom for years, but they're still here.

 

Most of these sites work on clickbaits and hope to get the advertising revenue.

 

Now it's all about Elon smoking pot. But apparently, the webcast is really interesting (I haven't had the chance to listen to it yet).

I just wish he would avoid giving his enemies ammunition to use against him.

No matter how much you hate the establishment and their short seller mates, you need to be seen as focused rather than entertaining.

As a listed company he remains accountable to the shareholders and their board only for as long as they have confidence in him.

He probably needs a very long holiday.

Edited 8 September, 2018 by Ryeman

[Xavier]

Well, I knew Tesla opted for disruption, but the latest announcement has sent the Tesla Facebook groups into meltdown!

 

In other news, I'm now over 60k miles, still loving it.

 

However, the massively dropped cost of the ludicrous Model S is becoming tempting, not because of the extra performance (small lie, possibly!), but also the overall updated package and especially the extra comfort and range offered by the larger pack.

 

And Model 3 soon being available at the lower price.

 

LHD Model 3 vehicles now available to order and collection within a few weeks!

 

It's all becoming rather exciting again!

Edited 3 March, 2019 by Xavier

[vrskeith]

 

 

[Ryeman]

On 03/03/2019 at 21:43, Xavier said:

Well, I knew Tesla opted for disruption, but the latest announcement has sent the Tesla Facebook groups into meltdown!

 

In other news, I'm now over 60k miles, still loving it.

 

However, the massively dropped cost of the ludicrous Model S is becoming tempting, not because of the extra performance (small lie, possibly!), but also the overall updated package and especially the extra comfort and range offered by the larger pack.

 

And Model 3 soon being available at the lower price.

 

LHD Model 3 vehicles now available to order and collection within a few weeks!

 

It's all becoming rather exciting again!

Then he backtracked I understand.

[Xavier]

43 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Then he backtracked I understand.

Backtracked or rather clarified the store closing stuff.

For pricing, we'll see on Monday where there's talk of hen going back up again, but no idea how much.

 

Oh and the Model Y was also revealed yesterday :-D

[Chris]

On 15/03/2019 at 23:45, Xavier said:

Backtracked or rather clarified the store closing stuff.

For pricing, we'll see on Monday where there's talk of hen going back up again, but no idea how much.

 

Oh and the Model Y was also revealed yesterday :-D

Prices are going back up by half of what they were reduced by as savings are only half what the original expectation was. Apparently you can order at the lower price until tomorrow or something. 

 

Have you ordered a replacement yet? The Y looks interesting but I'd want to see how much room there is with the 7 seat option. 

[Xavier]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

Prices are going back up by half of what they were reduced by as savings are only half what the original expectation was. Apparently you can order at the lower price until tomorrow or something. 

 

Have you ordered a replacement yet? The Y looks interesting but I'd want to see how much room there is with the 7 seat option. 

Not ordered a replacement. I think I'll hang on to mine. It's taken the worst of the depreciation and is running beautifully.

I'd probably be more interested in the Model Y than the 3. Maybe wait a couple of years to see how it really materialises then think about the options

[Ryeman]

I wouldn’t want to be confined to the back row of the Y.