Blowing up power steering fuse

[Peroz]

Hi guys,

This is my first post, the forum is amazing!

I own a 2008 Fabia II (5j) BXW 1.4 l petrol engine with LPG fuel mod (quite common here in Italy) and 190.000 km (120.000 miles).

1 month ago, the day after a 2 hours trip under the rain, the power steering stopped working just after turning the key (without turning on the engine).

The yellow power steering error light is on and the 5 Amp fuse under the steering wheel continues blowing up after replacement.

I have changed the electric pump with a used one but the 5 Amp fuse continues blowing up.

VCDS shows this error whith the original and the used pump: 01309 - power steering control module(J500) 49-00 - no communications.

The error appears at address 17 instruments and at address 19 can gateway and i think it is generated by the broken fuse.

I have checked the wires and the fuses on the battery but everything "seems" ok.

Power steering pump oil level is ok and the oil is new.

My arms are stronger now, and it's good but i wanna fix it

Any suggestion?

Thanx

-

[Breezy_Pete]

This fuse may also power two other devices, one of which is faulty.

The first, and most likely, I think, to be causing your trouble is "N79 Heating resistor for crankcase ventilation". Not sure exactly where this is on your engine but possibly in a breather module on the rear of the engine block?

 

The other device is oil level/temperature sensor in the sump (if fitted on your car).

 

Unplug both, fit new fuse, then plug in one after the other observing which causes the fuse to blow (when ignition is switched on).

Edited 17 November, 2016 by Wino

[Peroz]

Wino you are the best!

Yes, the problem was with the heating resistor.

When I unplugged the connector I noticed that the oil was all over inside the housing plug and between the contacts. Maybe a leakage caused the problem on the electric part...

Now I have to remove the entire component: do you have any particular suggestion about the operation? Does the oil flows out after removing it or it's only for air/oil heating/oil vapour? I have not well understood what is the exact function of this component: in Italy they call it "oil separator"...

Do you think is there any way to fix it? Could a new gasket prevent the electric problem?

Thank you so much!

[Breezy_Pete]

Good news.

 

That oil separator is the main component of the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system.  It provides an 'internal air cleaning service' for the engine, returning oil mist (nebbia d'olio?) to liquid oil back into the sump via a cyclonic (Dyson vacuum style) separator, and keeping the crankcase vapours clean and at a suitable, slightly negative, pressure most of the time using a valve controlled by inlet manifold vacuum levels.

The heating element is to prevent water freezing inside there during cold phases of engine operation. Water is one of the products of combustion which enters the crankcase as steam (blowing past the piston rings) but condenses within when the engine is cool.

 

I will look up the part number of this item on your car in a minute, I bought a used/secondhand part from ebay and cleaned it out thoroughly with paraffin/kerosene not long after I bought my 1.4/16v, an earlier version of what you have. It's held on with just 3 bolts on my car, and has two O-rings that seal it to the engine block.  If you do clean out yours like this, or another, try to make sure all the cleaning solvent is removed/dried/evaporated before fitting the item back onto the car, as any solvent left will affect the engine oil negatively.  You should not lose any oil when removing this component. It is above the level of the oil in the sump.

 

I think your car will be OK without this heating element connected except in very cold conditions, because heat from the engine will soon appear after starting and take over the work of this electrical heater.  More likely to be essential in Scandinavia or Canada than where you are, so no desperate hurry to replace or mend, in my opinion.

Edited 18 November, 2016 by Wino

[Breezy_Pete]

Looks like item 19 - 036103464AH, on this page, I think, with the O-rings being items 17 and 18.  I don't know what the price for a new one will be, but slightly to moderately painful, I should think.  Maybe see if yours returns to not blowing the fuse by just cleaning out the connector (male and female parts) carefully with something like brake cleaner, to remove the leaked oil/fluid?

 

Fuses are cheap to experiment with!

[Peroz]

Thank you very much Wino for all the informations, yeah is nebbia d'olio

I've checked the item number on ebay and for a new one the price is 60 euros (52 gpb), 37 (32 gpb) for a used one.

I have to ask to my local skoda dealer for his price, maybe without shipping costs it could be a good deal.

it's not a big value anyway, but I love fixing and yes fuses are cheap so I'll try to fix it.

I will let you know!

[Peroz]

No way to fix it, had to replace it. The new item from the local dealer was too expensive: 115 euros vat included so i decided to go with a used one found on ebay for only 30 euros. It was incredible how clean was mine after 190.000 km and how dirty was the other with just 88.0000 km (info from the seller). The LPG, good oil and mantainence made the difference!

In the cleaning process I was not able to open the main lid just the vertical lid with membrane and spring, plus the smaller lid nearby.

Wino thanks again for your help, curtesy and attention!

[Breezy_Pete]

Yeah not really possible to take apart and fix, unfortunately. Glad you got one that works and have cleaned it up as much as possible.

 

I cut up my old one just now to see how the heater works. It wasn't obvious; from the easily accessed side all you can see is a disc of metal.  As you cut away more and more plastic, you can see that it's actually two parallel discs, with a plastic spacer in the middle, insulating them from each other.  One is connected to each pin of the connector.

 

Eventually, when you get it out of the surrounding plastic and look from the other side, you see the two 'interesting' rectangular indentations that suggest something is going on under them, and sure enough, a pair of thin rectangular PTC heater 'stones'. One is still in place in my last photo, one I broke removing, and you can see a piece of it on the edge of the pics.

 

I guess the failure mechanism is carbon from dirty oil residues gradually short-circuiting the metal plates, but that's just a guess based on the fact that PTC stones usually fail open-circuit due to dirty connections to them, rather than short-circuit, as far as I know.

 

 

 

Edited 26 November, 2016 by Wino

[Peroz]

Really interesting! Do you remember i found oil inside the plug holder? Probably the plastic melted causing the oil passing through...

From 2009 in the bxw engine the item was changed with a new model that has coolant passing inside so no more electrical power/components are needed; the serial is the same except the last 2 letters, it has just a different shape in the top for the hoses (in and out).

The temptation tu buy the new "coolant" version was high but i have no time to study the links for the coolant hoses and it could be not easy.

[Breezy_Pete]

Now that is interesting! Especially as there's a brand new one of the later, coolant-heated type, on ebay here for less than £40.

 

I would be quite tempted to buy it, if I were you? I'm sure we could find out how to do the plumbing (Looks like the thin hose from radiator top connection to expansion tank just gets re-routed via this item)?  That way you would know you have one with nice clean internals that won't screw up your power steering ever again.  Seems very unlikely to me that the physical mounting to the engine block would have changed at all.  I guess you may have to add the cost of some new genuine coolant hoses if you want everything to be 'factory', if you know what I mean.

 

If you don't want to buy it, I may do for my car.

Edited 27 November, 2016 by Wino

[Peroz]

At the moment I'm ok with the one I have just bought as far as it lasts

Go and buy it: is a really good price! I also think it's the same item so it can fit with no problems on the engine.

You have just to buy hoses (aftremarket could be good) and find some videos or shots of links/ways.

It seems that the lower hose on the expansion tank is linked directly to the item and then the hose links to the lower main hose after the pump. Maybe a T connector could be required.

[Breezy_Pete]

At the moment I'm ok with the one I have just bought as far as it lasts

Go and buy it: is a really good price! I also think it's the same item so it can fit with no problems on the engine.

You have just to buy hoses (aftremarket could be good) and find some videos or shots of links/ways.

It seems that the lower hose on the expansion tank is linked directly to the item and then the hose links to the lower main hose after the pump. Maybe a T connector could be required.

After the initial excitement of the bargain price for the new genuine item, I doubt it's really worthwhile for me.  I mostly do short journeys so for reasons given below, it may be worse for my car.

I don't quite understand your description of the piping? I'm looking at this page (items 11, 12) for my info, and thinking it's like I said above, but you seem to have some different information?

 

What's strange - if the ETKA diagram I linked is correct - is that this coolant feed would only be warm after the thermostat starts to open?  I would have thought it would be better connected to the circuit inside the thermostat, so that it starts to warm immediately the engine is started.

[Peroz]

I have checked on Elsawin the piping scheme (only representative) and it says that the coolant goes from the expansion tank to the oil separator and than to the lower main hose after the water pump.

In my engine there is another component at the place of item 13 of your link: the diagram is not for the erlier bxw version probably, the component is a rectangular plastic preheater for the basement.

The component i mean is this under the inlet holes with orange gaskets:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/nLQAAOxyzfNRrhLl/$T2eC16JHJHkFFlzdSDRoBRrhLlLFg!~~60_1.JPG

I had to replace it a few months ago due to a leaking problem!

This preheater is present on both piping scheme versions of Elsawin: with the electric oil separator or "liquid coolant oil separator".

[Crocket24]

Sorry to jump on this thread but i have been losing my mind trying to find out what this part is and what its for and  this ls the only place I have seen someone talk about it. 

 

Had a water leak down at this part and i have just managed to bypass it for now to get the car going,   i was wondering if it will cause any damage by doing this ? 

 

Ive also had my power steering light come on and im not sure if the leak may have some how caused it to come on . I have had a new alternator fitted, new battery and checked the wires but the light is still on.