15 hours ago, Orville said:

There are only a handful of major refineries within the UK. Most garage brands source fuel from "local" refineries and mix a tiny proportion of additives to differentiate their products. Dirtiness/cleanliness more likely depends upon how frequently each individual garage cleans its underground tanks & pumps than where they source refined fuel from, as it mostly comes from the same depots. Many people swear by particular brands but I think that itis mostly placebo. Higher RON fuel will perform better within tuned engines, but for most verhicles and owners the difference is negligible. All UK fuel meets strict quality standards. The best way to protect an engine is service it regularly with good quality oil and to avoid thrashing it regualary or from cold.

 

^^^^This...

I think most engines, and direct injection petrol especially, benefit from the occasional warmed up blat to keep down the carbon build up.

For the 1.4tsi the recommendation is occasionally run the engine over 3500 rpm for about 20 minutes. I usually settle for 4th at the speed limit which only affects consumption by about 1.5L/100 so not much extra fuel really, and the engine is so smooth the wife never notices anyway.

 

I would think the 1.8tsi and 2.0tsi will benefit even more from occasional forays into higher revs because they have dual (port and direct) injection and I believe the port injection operates mostly at higher revs which means the inlet valves get a bathed in fuel as well as a good shake.

It would certainly be more fun than putting in additives, the benefits of which are mostly anecdotal but with little supporting evidence from independent tests. Even those tests that do see a benefit are insufficient to pay the off the cost of the additive.

 

Today I put Tesco`s Momentum and I will see what I get from it.

How much do you people pay monthly for a 1.4l engine as a day to day use in normal conditions?

Shell V Power diesel.

The fuel is the same as its usualy ftom the local refinery, however each tanker driver has a card he sticks in the dispensing pump, this is the additive pack bespoke to each brand.

 

I would say the chances of filling with dodgy fuel are more likely from old garages with old tanks and garages that don't get used much and have fuel sitting for longer periods.

 

If regularly serviced any fuel filter should remove any particals in the fuel system.  

 

 

Well not really from Local Refineries seeing how few of those there are in the UK but from Terminals & Depots,

but the same idea.

Lots of your road fuels in the Southern part of the UK arrive from refineries not in the UK.

Is 'morrisons' a brand? Thats what Ive used for the last 5 or 6 years.

I've just filled up with Texaco Supreme 97 Octane IIRC. 8p a litre more than the Super at 122.9 p. Long trip ahead at the weekend.

As my mileage has dropped I just tend to shop around and avoid our Morrison's where there are always queues..

 

I call bull****, it's all snake oil.

 

This is a multi-trillion dollar industry. If manufacturers/suppliers/brands have a product that is demonstrably superior to another it is well within their power to conduct properly designed rigorous trials to prove it.

 

Until then, it's all just marketing guff preying on the gullible.

 

Autocar/Topgear/FifthGear/Industry magazines are absolutely not credible sources.

 

See also running shoes that have never been proven to make you run faster, jump higher or injure yourself less than other good quality alternatives.

2 hours ago, gregoir said:

I've just filled up with Texaco Supreme 97 Octane IIRC. 8p a litre more than the Super at 122.9 p. Long trip ahead at the weekend.

As my mileage has dropped I just tend to shop around and avoid our Morrison's where there are always queues..

 

Find a Tesco's FFS, only a 6p premium for 99ron

A trip to the "local" Tesco would take around 45 minutes return for me and is an unpleasant trip. Will try a more convenient Tesco when I'm out and about.

If not Tesco for 99 or Sainsburys for 97 at 5 pence a litre more than 95 & you dont want to pay silly for BP 97 or Shell 99 then do not.

Your 1.4tsi Octavia will do fine on 95.

 

As to octane / MON ratings and snake oil, well hardly when the higher octane matters.  as to detergent additives you pays your money and make your choices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating 

I'm not saying there is no difference between 95 and 99 RON, just that there is no difference between manufacturers*

 

I'd go as far as to claim that the supposed MPG and power benefits are overstated except in very specific circumstances

 

 

 

*Until sufficiently robust evidence is provided

There is a difference in manufacturers, the base fuel can be the same from the refineries and what is imported.

Then Winter Fuels are a different formulation, and comes into the UK even after not being Distributed in Continental Europe.

You can not be selling 99 ron minimum if it is 97 ron minimum and Sainsburys, Esso, BP, Texaco are selling 97 ron Minimum.

http://petrolprices.com/green-fuels.html 

 

UK still buying winter gasoline as European refiners switch to summer - Oil _ Platts News Article & Story.mhtml

Edited 24 May, 20179 yr by Awayoffski

Well, my handbook says that for vehicles requiring 95 Octane minimum (as mine does) extra power and mpg can be obtained by using higher Octane fuel.

The variable valve timing and the knock sensors, all part of the Tsi engine  permit that. I don't dispute that it runs fine on 95 Octane stuff. My choice entirely.

Costco 99 RON; sometimes it's even cheaper than standard petrol from a normal garage. Before that I always used Shell V-Power.

Believe it or not, RON has little relationship to the actual energy content of a partiular fuel. Within the same car a 95RON fuel may produce more power than 99RON fuel. Higher RON fuels will extend the point at which knock occurs, and as such will only benefit performance if your engine has passed that limit (is working off the knock sesnor). Temperature, humidity, driving conditions, state of tune, rpm, etc all affect the point at which knock may occur.

5 hours ago, gregoir said:

Well, my handbook says that for vehicles requiring 95 Octane minimum (as mine does) extra power and mpg can be obtained by using higher Octane fuel.

The variable valve timing and the knock sensors, all part of the Tsi engine  permit that. I don't dispute that it runs fine on 95 Octane stuff. My choice entirely.

That is interesting about your handbook as my 2014 car's manual does not say the same. Mine covers a variety of engine/fuelling situations but only warns against lower performance/economy using lower than recommended RON fuel.

UPDATE: YES I found the part you referred to on a different page to the above. The two parts are a bit contradictory if you ask me.

Personally never could detect any improvement for either after using several concurrent tanks of 98 RON, certainly not enough to offset the extra cost of higher rated fuel.

 

I thought the 1.4tsi in the Octavia had a relatively simple variable valve timing system (either intake or exhaust but not both? I could be wrong).

The 1.4tsi in the Superb with ACT is a lot more advanced and similarly with the other higher performance engines controlling both valve sets timing. The new 1.5tsi is really advanced but regrettably will not be available in Australia in the Octavia for some time (couple of years?).

 

I am happy with my engine performance and economy and see much merit in the 'Keep IT Simple Stupid' principle for engine design, where possible.

 

 

Edited 25 May, 20179 yr by Gerrycan

I drive a particular stretch of road most days on my way to work, early in the morning with little to no other road users about. Full acceleration from one roundabout to another over 1-1/4 miles feels the same on either 95 or 99ron fuel however, on the 99ron I have to brake for the second roundabout from a 12 mph higher speed.

 

I don't doubt you can't feel the difference but, it exsists

Edited 25 May, 20179 yr by themanwithnoaim

Why did VW even bother with posting this some might ask. 

But then if they are asking they might just not care anyway what they use or from where.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/Fuel 

 

What does your VW Group Vehicle show on the Fuel Flap?

 

 

Edited 25 May, 20179 yr by Awayoffski

My label is not identical to any of those.

The third one down, mostly. But the ECO tyre pressures are slightly lower at 2.5bar front, and definitely min 95 RON as I've said before.

My VRS says Min 95 RON. Many countries sell fuels with significantly lower RON, but for the UK and most of the EU 95 RON is the minimun you will find available.

 

 

 

Remember that all fuel sold as 95 RON will be a minimun of 95 RON, and may actually be closer to 96. 97 etc. Likewise minimun 99 RON could be higher still.

 

Adding octane booster may reduce performance, as most otcane enrichers are derived from ethonal which will dilute the energy content for the given volume of fuel. It is similar to adding salt to water to increase the boiling point. Unfortunately it is hard to tell which brands use higher base quality fuel within their Super-derivatives, and which mix additives to artificially increase the octane level. Hence, somtimes random 95 RON will perform better than random Super within the same engine. Ethonal-enhanced RON can also negatively impact fuel economy bacuse you need more volume to release the same energy.

Edited 25 May, 20179 yr by Orville

9 hours ago, themanwithnoaim said:

I drive a particular stretch of road most days on my way to work, early in the morning with little to no other road users about. Full acceleration from one roundabout to another over 1-1/4 miles feels the same on either 95 or 99ron fuel however, on the 99ron I have to brake for the second roundabout from a 12 mph higher speed.

 

I don't doubt you can't feel the difference but, it exsists

WHAT speed are you doing after one and quarter miles of all out acceleration?? Please don't answer!

I sometimes think we are communicating from alternate dimensions through the Briskoda portal.

 

Not sure a normal 1.4tsi would benefit as much from 99Ron as your modified one

Edited 25 May, 20179 yr by Gerrycan

95 will be the minimum in the EU and also much of Europe since not all Europe are in the EU.

 

Language / Translation gets lost where 'Super' is Regular Unleaded 95, and Super Plus is Super Unleaded and VW Group give as 98 ron and in the UK 

there are no sellers of 98 ron.

In Continental Europe there is some lovely 100-102 ron pump fuels available and not at rip off prices.

 

PS,

Adding salt to water is a good subject, like detergents in fuels, and where do detergents come from.

Rather like adding salt to petroleum with Royal Dutch Shell.

 

PPS.

LPG is rather nice for volume and energy as it is up there at around equivalent to 110 ron.

Nice to run a V8 on as some do in sports car racers like Morgans.

http://v8engines.com 

Edited 25 May, 20179 yr by Awayoffski

Basic Ron ratings in Australia for pure petrol are 91, 95 and 98

Then you get bioethanol versions where E10 is generally rated at 94 Octane and E85 is rated at 105 Octane or a race version 107 Octane (nether recommended for our vehicles).

100 Ron pure petrol or above is as rare as hens teeth here and I have not seen it available for some time.

Our fuel (petrol and diesel) has much higher sulphur content than in Europe or US especially our 91 Octane fuel.

The Aus government has tentative plans to ban 91 Octane and demand lower sulphur content in the next couple of years.

Of course that will mean that prices will go up but should extend the longevity of engines and DPFs.

 

Text from my owners manual regarding various Filler cap recommendations:

 

Your vehicle can only be operated with unleaded petrol in compliance with the
EN 2281) standard.
All petrol engines can be operated using petrol that contains at most 10% bioethanol
(E10).

Required fuel - unleaded petrol 95/91 or 92 or 93 RON
Use unleaded fuel with the octane rating 95 RON. Unleaded petrol with the octane
ratings 91, 92 or 93 RON can also be used, but may result in a slight loss in
performance.
Prescribed fuel – unleaded petrol min. 95 RON
Use unleaded fuel with the octane rating 95 RON or higher.
In case of necessity, you can refuel with petrol with the octane ratings 91, 92 or
93 RON, if petrol with the octane rating 95 RON is not available » .
Prescribed fuel – unleaded petrol 98/(95) RON
Use unleaded fuel with the octane rating 98 RON or higher. Unleaded petrol
95 RON can also be used but results in a slight loss in performance.
In case of necessity, you can refuel with petrol with the octane ratings 91, 92 or
93 RON, if unleaded fuel with octane rating 98 RON or 95 RON is not available
» .
Fuel additives
Unleaded petrol in accordance with the EN 228 standard1) meets all the conditions
for a smooth-running engine. We therefore recommend that no fuel additives
are used. This can result in considerable damage to parts of the engine or
the exhaust system.

 

 

Edited 25 May, 20179 yr by Gerrycan

VW sell detuned versions of Golf R's & GTI's because of fuels in some of the the Rest of World & environmental conditions, weather and altitude etc. South Africa being someplace that has been getting some real dud Hot Hatches.

 

Luckily the UK has a good standard of fuel and nothing very extreme in weather or any chance of driving more than 4,000 feet above sea level.

Sadly the fuel price is a bit of a rip off compared to other EU Countries that the UK are still a member off.

Time will tell how much the UK government continue to rip off drivers with Taxes & Duty.

 

As to the bio that producers are required to use in fuels hopefully the UK will stick with what it is at now.

Edited 25 May, 20179 yr by Awayoffski