CitiGo Gearbox Issue

[mjs4x4]

Anybody had this one before?

 

Car was being reversed out of driveway. Went to select first gear and gear lever won't move out of reverse - car stuck in reverse gear.

 

Looked at linkage under centre tunnel and all appears ok. No issues with the cables where they attach to gearbox either. Tried to get it out of reverse while freewheeling (backwards of course!). No way will the lever move!

 

I have read plenty on the internet about Up/CitiGo gearboxes being cheap and nasty units prone to issues and our car has always been one which only went into reverse 50% of the time (common Up/CitiGo fault). It is the older gearbox which does not require the lever to be depressed before selecting reverse. 75bhp model with stop / start. I think the Gearbox code is NGZ?

 

Clutch operation seems normal. Being stop start you have to depress clutch on start up. Letting clutch up engages drive as usual - backwards only of course!!!

 

Be interested to hear if any other owner has had similar failure - or any theories on what might have happened from those more mechanically minded than me.

 

Looks like a recovery job as I don't fancy reversing 28 miles to the Garage .......

 

Mike

[Emil]

First time I read something like this.

 

I disagree gearbox being "cheap and nasty". Most of the complaints are caused because people don't remember how manual gearbox works. These doesn't have synchronized reverse as some cars have. That's why you need to remember how reverse without synchronization works. 

 

These 3 sisters have gearbox which might be a bit noisier than other fancier cars have. Doesn't matter as long it works as it should.

 

What might be the issue with your gearbox is hard to say from here. I would try to move car back and forth. Engine stopped and then engine running. Trying to get it off from reverse at the same time. 

[Coops]

My 70 year old mum has a Citigo and has issues with her gearbox. I talked to Trust Skoda Redditch last week who advised that there is no syncromesh on first and reverse.

 

Sometimes she has problems getting it into 1st, but after a short drive it's usually ok.

 

 

[Ootohere]

Sorry no help for the OP,

 

But there are gearbox issues with Manual Up!MiiCitigo's and that is that other manufacturers can build gearboxes for cheap small city cars that you just start, 

select 1st or reverse and go.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/312494-skoda-citigi-gearboxclutch-issues 

[mjs4x4]

Just for the avoidance of doubt - I do know how to drive a car. Owned 30+ cars since 1977 and never had a gearbox issue with any of them.

 

There is a quite a bit of stuff on the Up! owners website relating to gearbox issues - particularly selection of first and reverse. In fact there are even records of dealer comments to the effect that it is a 'characteristic of the car' which of course is dealer speak for '**** off - we are not interested'!!

 

The CitiGo / Up! / Mii is a cheap car and built to a price and not a quality. Hence the lack of synchro on reverse gear referred to above - for example. We pay our money and take our choice.

 

Yes - tried moving the gear lever with the engine running / not running; car stationary / moving. It won't budge from reverse. Any greater force would be sure to damage the plastic components at the base of the gear lever.

 

Speaking to a gearbox guru later today so will find out what issues he has come across. Whatever - this looks like a gearbox out job and repair or replace with second hand gearbox.

[ronime]

8 hours ago, Emil said:

I disagree gearbox being "cheap and nasty". Most of the complaints are caused because people don't remember how manual gearbox works. These doesn't have synchronized reverse as some cars have. That's why you need to remember how reverse without synchronization works. 

 

Mine sometimes takes a couple of attempts to select reverse when completely cold. No worse than some other cars that I have owned and certainly better than the 5-speed Getrag gearbox on the 2004 MINI Cooper that this Citigo replaced.

 

Sure, "cheap and nasty" is somewhat subjective but the Up!/Mii/Citigo manual transmission is certainly not over-engineered. It is engineered for "lightness" weighing in at only 20kg (dry),  I believe. I'm not convinced that VW have advanced much in this regard since the notorious gearbox woes that affected the 1.0L Polo 6N/Lupo/Arosa models.

 

The issue that I do have with the Citigo is that it is often noisy when driving in reverse. Not the usual reverse gear whine - it sounds like either a driveshaft is catching on something or it is trying to jump out of mesh. I asked for this to be investigated and rectified at the last service but the response from the dealer was the usual "they all do that, Sir". Such a shame as for me it is the only significant issue that diminishes my respect and admiration for what is otherwise a remarkably good little car. If I keep the car beyond the expiration of the factory 3-year warranty then an aftermarket driveline warranty will be a must-have.

 

Edited 5 June, 2017 by ronime

[Emil]

9 hours ago, Coops said:

My 70 year old mum has a Citigo and has issues with her gearbox. I talked to Trust Skoda Redditch last week who advised that there is no syncromesh on first and reverse.

 

Sometimes she has problems getting it into 1st, but after a short drive it's usually ok.

 

 

First gear is synchronized I'm sure. But it may need same procedure than reverse if cogwheels are stationary. -> lift clutch pedal to get cogwheels spinning again and then depress clutch pedal and engage the gear.

[Emil]

Or you could try to engage second gear first and then the first gear. I've noticed that it might help too, if it feels hard to get first gear at first attempt. 

[Ootohere]

Vorsprung Durch Technik. 

 

Next Back to the Future from the VW Group will be Retro Models where Double De-clutching is required.

 

Or has the Double Clutch thing already come into fashion with 'sporty youngsters'??

 

Edited 6 June, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Emil]

Double de-clutching is required if you want to engage first gear while car is still moving.

 

 

Still normal behavior for manual gearbox. 

[Ootohere]

Sure,  tells you that in the Owners Manual,  which page is it on?    Taught by driving instructors these days.   Not!

 

[Emil]

Couldn't look that video more than 1 minute because he didn't know what he is talking about. 

 

Normally you don't have to engage first gear when car is moving. But if you want to do so you better figure out how transmission works. To prevent your own frustration. 

[Ootohere]

Got you.

Like bump starting because the batteries that VW Group source are cheap and nasty and you must remember to park on a slope.

Or just to get going because selecting 1st or reverse is a bit iffy?

 

 

 

 

 

Only playing with you. 

We know that if everything in life was as reliable as a Volkswagen it means that we are all doomed....

[Emil]

They say that producing small cars is not a good business. It's easy to believe. Still Škoda made best small car ever. Škoda Citigo. 

Edited 6 June, 2017 by Emil

[Ootohere]

Is it actually Skoda that build the Citigo, Up! & Mii in the Factory in Slovakia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Bratislava_Plant 

Edited 6 June, 2017 by Awayoffski

[ronime]

Yep, made in the same factory as the Bentayga, Cayenne and Q7.

[barnie]

Although the car has been gone a while I still look in here, the forum, however one of the reasons I decided to get rid was the fact I wasn't happy with the gearbox/clutch operation. Sometimes a real pain getting reverse or first and a clattering noise from cold starting appearing to be gearbox related which was getting worse. I had it back twice to dealer who was reluctant to have the clutch and gearbox inspected, stating they wanted me to sign something to agree to pay for work if it was discovered to be down to general wear and tear! This was @20k miles and under 3 years old, still under warranty.

[mjs4x4]

Should update this - just in case our misfortunes can help anyone else in the future.

 

On investigation the gearbox was jammed solid so had to be removed from the car for stripping and examination.

 

Basically the failure was caused by general wear a tear in the gearbox (on a car that has only covered 55,000 miles and has mainly been driven on long journeys without frequent gear changes)! Not stop start city driving requiring frequent changes.

 

Two pinion main shaft bearings were excessively worn / excessive wear in the selector fork with the result that something over travelled in the box and locked it in reverse.

 

So I have had the gearbox rebuilt with the following new parts:

 

5th/reverse sychroniser hub assembly

2 pinion main shaft bearings

shift fork group (can't replace individual)

 

Cost of the box re-build by a specialist (NOT a Skoda dealer) £600 inc Vat £200 + VAT for labour / £300 + VAT for parts.

 

Box currently awaiting re-installation.

 

So allowing for the labour and the fact that I felt obliged to shell out another £100 on a new Sachs Clutch Kit while the box was out - I'll be looking at a £1,000 on this using independent specialists. Suspect a lot more using a Skoda dealer?

 

So to the people who have commented on this post to the effect that this is a great gearbox - well you are entitled to your opinion. Perhaps you all change your cars prior to 50k miles and if you don't perhaps you should.

 

I suspect that as these cars get older and accumulate higher mileages this won't be an uncommon failure.

 

 

Mike

 

PS And regarding the comment by Barnie above I had a similar conversation with the Skoda dealer in Darlington just before this car went out of warranty in July 2016. 'We don't mind having a look as long as you agree to pay for it if we determine nothing is wrong'. Which is what they no doubt would have said because for certain they wouldn't have opened up the gearbox!!

Edited 22 June, 2017 by mjs4x4
addition

[Emil]

Surely not the first or last gearbox from VW which fails. 

 

If memory serves we have had a member here who have Citigo as driving school car. Haven't mention gearbox failures. Not very smooth use for a car I guess. 

[horkin]

This is really bad luck for the OP and such a pity it turned out to be such an expensive repair. Not sure I agree we should all be changing our cars prior to 50k though. The vast majority seem to be okay.