Hi, I've got a 7-speed DSG in a 2013 1.6 TDI.

 

When trying to creep forward, 4mph or so in really slow traffic, and gently braking as you do, the brakes basically fight the engine, and you get a slight juddering.  The automatic creeping forward is fighting the brakes.

If you keep the brakes applied, just enough to over-power the engine, it'll then eventually realise, kill the power, and the car comes to a sudden halt.

 

It's as if it doesn't realise the brakes are being applied and cut the power.

 

I feel like a nutter as the car is jerking around in the traffic - I don't know why, but I seem to constantly be in traffic that goes about 1 mph slower than the automatic creep forward speed.

Anyone got any thoughts on what the problem could be?

Could this possible be causing any damage to gearbox or clutch?

 

Skoda recently replaced both of them for free (bar labour charges) because they both failed.

 

Thanks.

 

EDIT: one other DSG related question - I hate that flooring (not all the way into kickdown or whatever it's called) the accelerator will drop a couple of gears and thrash the diesel engine....it just feels awful.  I have to put it into manual mode if I want to accelerate hard and remain in a sensible gear.  Is there any way to prevent the gears dropping?

Edited 8 June, 20178 yr by gsf600y

Did your DSG need or get the Service Campaign work before the Clutch Packs were replaced or during do you know.

Synthetic Oil changed for Mineral & a software update. 34F5 sticker in the spare tyre well if done.

 

Or is your DSG one that left the Factory with Mineral Oil and maybe part of the latest Service Campaign, 2013-2015. 

Software Update  '34H5'.

 

Which ever or neither get back onto Skoda UK because regardless of Manufacturers Warranty the Parts Warranty on the Clutch Pack is 2 years since you paid money 

As it is with the World Wide recall the Warranty was extended, 

just that Europe somehow is not in the world but then VW Group / Skoda know the Fundamental Design, Manufacturing, Materials or Sofrware / Fluids failures are their fault.

Chase then up, get a Free Diagnosis.   They know they are responsible.

So, the "clutch pack" was replaced first, back end of 2016, after the car was "stuck" in 2nd gear.

Got it back, but car was still not shifting smoothly, so then the gearbox was done in Jan.  The price on the sheet for the gearbox was just shy of £3.5k inc VAT, so I'm glad they paid for it!

 

Apparently the dealer and Skoda paid half each....was made to sound like they were doing me a favour.  Car had around 80k miles at the time.

 

I've no idea about any service campaign work.  I'll check for the sticker you mention tomorrow.

 

Just put my VIN into the Skoda recall website, and it says there is a recall campaign for it, but doesn't say what it is or if I've already got the fix on.

 

EDIT:  Mines a 2012 model too....don't know why I said 2013

 

Edited 8 June, 20178 yr by gsf600y

DSGs don't like creeping forward.  Keep in mind it's a manual without a clutch pedal.  Dawdling along at 4mph, you are basically slipping the clutch and not getting full engagement.

 

Maybe try googling "DSG in traffic" or similar for some tips.

 

I'm not defending the DSG - I think it sucks the way it has been marketed as an "automatic"

used to be fine when I first got it, and crept forward without judder.

 

why do you say it's not an automatic??

The comment made, is because they are built as an automated manual and resemble manual transmission more than conventional torque converter automatics. For that reason, they do not drive exactly like conventional old school automatics.

 

I take your point on how it used to be ok in slow traffic. If it is shuddering or clunky in slow traffic, all I can think of is the dual mass flywheel.

 

Our Golf mk5 6sp DSG was never good in crawling traffic, even when we bought it at 35k miles, it was better if you selected 1st manually rather than let it shift into second at incredibly slow speed. It was like that the whole 5.5 years we had it. Then when we got the vRS DSG last year, with almost exactly the same 6 sp DSG, it is much smoother at crawling traffic. I tried it on test drive and was surprised how much better it was given it was an almost identical box.  Still not perfect at it, but I don't find I have to manual select first gear as an over ride and it if far less juddery. I now suspect the DMF was at fault on the Golf.

 

I know yours is the DQ200, and ours the 6 Sp wet clutch DQ250 but AFAIR the same principles apply and they still run a DMF.

If you want to avoid the kick down occurring, press the throttle fully down to the point where the kick down switch will start to operate but not any more so the switch doesn't click. You will then get full throttle acceleration without the kick down.

Ian.

Yes +1, feel for the kickdown switch and stop pressing  the accelerator at that point. But, if you are pottering at like 45mph in 6th or 7th  gear on the dsg in auto mode and you press full throttle without even hitting the kickdown switch you will still likely get some lower gear selection, but not the max rpm with kick down switch.  It is all calculated on engine load, temps,  road speed, extent of throttle etc...  Only way to avoid is as you say manual mode, even then there is some intervention for downchnages and in the DQ250 it soon takes control back to auto mode...

Sport mode is better for low speed traffic as it avoids the early upshifts and some of the clutch slipping that goes along with it. That said if it's juddering now and didn't before that points to something amiss. May just be wear on the DMF or clutch.

 

It may also be your brakes that are juddering a bit. No harm in having them checked over.

Since there is an Outstanding Service Campaign / Recall Action once checked with Skoda UK Customer Services what it is you can mention the 

DSG behaviour since the Warranty Action because it was never a Goodwiil Action, and while the car is in getting whatever the DSG can be checked out including the 

Mechatronic Control Unit.

http://skoda.co.nz/news/dsg-service-campaign 

(this was the correct 'Field Action, Europe got the cheapo version!)

 

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions 

Not always accurate in showing all Service Campaign / recall actions, so always check with Skoda UK Customer Services, Dealerships seem to miss some Service Campaigns / TPI's for some reasons.....

Thanks Awayoffski - I'll get it sorted with the dealership and will bring up all these points.  It's due to go in for a service anyway.

I could find no stickers in the spare tyre well, or anywhere near, with those numbers on.

 

Thanks all for the pointers too.

 

 

 

 

On 6/9/2017 at 16:54, gsf600y said:

used to be fine when I first got it, and crept forward without judder.

 

why do you say it's not an automatic??

It doesn't have a torque converter that will slip.  It has two clutches that provide a non-slip mechanical coupling.  If the vehicle proceeds at walking pace the clutch has to slip to maintain the low speed.

 

 

Good video, I had no idea how the DSG worked before, thanks

 

On 2017-6-14 at 03:25, brad1.8T said:

It has two clutches that provide a non-slip mechanical coupling.  If the vehicle proceeds at walking pace the clutch has to slip to maintain the low speed.

So....at 3m28s into the video, they show the friction discs & plates in the clutch - is that what you mean by non-slip mechanical coupling?

And you say the clutch has to slip to maintain the low speed - how does it slip to do that and have a non-slip coupling?

They are brilliant, you just drive them, all this clutch slip stuff is not relevant.

Yours was faulty got fixed and is not fixed right.  'Simply Clever', was working, now not working right, get Skoda / VW to sort it out.

37 minutes ago, gsf600y said:

Good video, I had no idea how the DSG worked before, thanks

 

So....at 3m28s into the video, they show the friction discs & plates in the clutch - is that what you mean by non-slip mechanical coupling?

And you say the clutch has to slip to maintain the low speed - how does it slip to do that and have a non-slip coupling?

Same way a manually controlled clutch can vary from non-slip to slip: vary the pressure in the actuator. In a manual car, you're controlling it with your leg. On the DSG, the computer is controlling it.

Just watched another video about DSG gearboxes, recommended to try and avoid inching forward, to avoid wear on the clutch.

 

Yeah, just been reading a little more about clutches (I knew nothing before now! :D) and realise it's pushing/pulling some rods using oil pressure in the mechtronic unit to move the clutch (is that right?)

 

 

Well the same could be said of conventional manual transmissions and clutch set ups. Limit slipping and inching and riding clutch on hills, to minimise clutch wear.

 

It is worth bearing it in mind but I would say some use in that way (edit: crawling traffic that is) is inevitable given the traffic conditions we face. In any case, a launch control start would consume many, many, many more times the clutch wear than sedately crawling along in traffic.  So long as you are moving the clutch begins to engage it is just the repeated stop and go again that adds a little to wear but unavoidable really. You've got to accept clutches do wear...eventually.

Edited 16 June, 20178 yr by TheClient

On 6/16/2017 at 07:07, gsf600y said:

Good video, I had no idea how the DSG worked before, thanks

 

So....at 3m28s into the video, they show the friction discs & plates in the clutch - is that what you mean by non-slip mechanical coupling?

And you say the clutch has to slip to maintain the low speed - how does it slip to do that and have a non-slip coupling?

yes, if the clutch plate is clamped between the pressure plate and the flywheel, it's a non-slip coupling.

 

It slips by limiting the clamping pressure and allowing the driving coupling (the flywheel & pressure plate) to move at a faster speed than the clutch friction plate by allowing the friction plate to slip.  This isn't a big deal occasionally (starting off from rest) but if you do it a lot it causes heat and wear, which can cause hot spots in the driving plates and uneven wear on the friction plate, which can cause shudder.

 

If you haven't had Skoda look at it, that would be a good starting point but you might also look at a slight change in driving style when in slow traffic.

 

 

To avoid inching in traffic people might need to not travel by cars in cities.

Funnily many that commute or drive regularly in cities want an automatic or automated manual and the Engineers and Manufacturers know what their intended use and who the customers for them will be.

 

Bit odd if the Biggest Manufacturer in the world gets it wrong.

But then they are dropping 6 speed Wet Clutch DSG for 7 speed, and the 7 Speed Twin Dry Clutch DSG (DQ200) had a world wide recall 

(European Service Campaign 34F7)  

& now Some from 2013 on the Service Campaign 34H5, software update.

Vorsprung durch technik.

Try try and try again and then drop the product and hope customers have short memories.

http://autoevolution.com/news/skoda-builds-500000th-dq200-dsg-gearbox-88712.html 

Edited 19 June, 20178 yr by Awayoffski