Strange engine sound

[johnny cabbage head]

I have the same noise coming from my newly aquired skoda approved 26,000 mile 2017 superb estate. I know there is a technical service bulletin out about the Alternator pulley (as mentioned by a skoda technician to me yesterday. I am taking it in to get this sorted at another main agent as the dealer who sold me the car is 100 miles away and their service dept assured me I can get ift fixed under warranty at any skoda main agents . I have had the car just under 2 weeks, very concerned as tmy 39,000 mile skoda superb estate in 1.6 guise never made any wierd noise like this and nobody elses 2.0 tdi skoda engine that I know personally make this noise.

Will post a video on youtube.

 

 

 

 

Edited 10 April, 2019 by johnny cabbage head

[Sec8200]

Does it disappear after engine heats up to 80 degrees?

Mine does, as many others and get rejected for a replacement.

Let us know of your progresss.

[johnny cabbage head]

will do, and yes it makes a different sound when its hot, sounds like something  pressurised is fluttering / passing.

I will make a video of the engine noise when its hot later and post it

[Sec8200]

Most probably vacuum-oil pump as we discussed here. If so even new will not fix it. Yours sound bearable to be honest..

 

 

[johnny cabbage head]

25 minutes ago, Sec8200 said:

Most probably vacuum-oil pump as we discussed here. If so even new will not fix it. Yours sound bearable to be honest..

 

 

some guy posted on the youtube link to one of the videos from your subject link that he found out it was the Aircon pump- I asked him to expand on that, still waiting for his reply though the noise from Neroz, s car was identical to mine. ???

[Nervoz]

I'm getting back on first post and apologies for the late reply. They replied on the 20th of November.

 

Well, Skoda CZ replied and they said that indeed the sound is coming from the vacuum-oil pump combo, and that the sound is normal and I should not worry about it. Furthermore, as my car is still under warranty until December, I asked what would happen if the pump will fail shortly after the warranty expires, but the question was ignored.

 

Shortly after this e-mail, I was contacted by a manager from Porsche (Porsche is the main dealer here that sells Audi, VW, Skoda, Seat, Porsche, well, everything VAG...) and he also sent me an e-mail in which states that he acknowledges the sound and in case the pump fails, it will be replaced with a new one.

 

That's pretty much it.

 

 

[johnny cabbage head]

On 10/04/2019 at 19:42, Nervoz said:

I'm getting back on first post and apologies for the late reply. They replied on the 20th of November.

 

Well, Skoda CZ replied and they said that indeed the sound is coming from the vacuum-oil pump combo, and that the sound is normal and I should not worry about it. Furthermore, as my car is still under warranty until December, I asked what would happen if the pump will fail shortly after the warranty expires, but the question was ignored.

 

Shortly after this e-mail, I was contacted by a manager from Porsche (Porsche is the main dealer here that sells Audi, VW, Skoda, Seat, Porsche, well, everything VAG...) and he also sent me an e-mail in which states that he acknowledges the sound and in case the pump fails, it will be replaced with a new one.

 

That's pretty much it.

 

 

Here is the link to a video on you tube of skoda tdi with same noise as mine and confirmed by another owner as the problem eventually pinned down to the AC pulley clutch assembley which includes a bearing. It may be that the vaccum pump suspected of this noise may be a red herring, and to replace the pulley/ clutch bearing assembly would be a lot cheaper than a vaccum pump. Biggest problem is getting somebody at a main agents to try to remedy this by changing the AC pulley and not fobbing you off with the "its a characteristic of the car "  The subsequent comments on the link are interesting reading for anyone else experiencing the same strange noise, though I would share it here .

 

[johnny cabbage head]

On 10/04/2019 at 10:06, Sec8200 said:

Does it disappear after engine heats up to 80 degrees?

Mine does, as many others and get rejected for a replacement.

Let us know of your progresss.

 just an update, I took mine into main agents the service manager  said "they all make that noise - mine does it " I asked what the noise was and where was the noise coming and he flushed  slightly red and said "even skoda dont know" I supressed a laugh and suggested the AC compressor pump as noise was coming from that area, they took it in and rang me back saying they would be changing the Timing belt and tensioner as there was a TPI out on my car. I asked them to take off auxilliary drive belt and spin the AC compressor pulley to check for any bearing noise  and to send me a video of it. The technician I spoke to said he had checked the crank pulley but nobody came back to me with the video or any report of the AC compressor inspection- they were 6 inches away from it but still conveniently forgot. I  simply recieved a call saying my car was ready and it was fine. probably because I politely refused their £150 aircon service which they said was shceduled but i rang my supplying garage and they said its discretionary and that the garage were "trying it on with me"

I have contacted a chap who had exactly the same issue and exact noise as mine -same  engine , he changed the AC COMPRESSOR  and cured the hideous noise.  I was told theres a TPI issued to all workshops that anyone presenting their car with this noise should be told noise is normal and NOT to undertake any work on the car under warranty as the garage will be back charged by skoda.

sounds like they want to prevent a flood of owners turning up for a AC compressor replacement under warranty, probably trying to penny pich after dieselgate in USA  gave them a proper financial mauling as the US government got behind consumers over there and  made them compensate owners.

And yes the noise diassapates as the engine gets warm, but then a bearing  thats starting to go might initially quieten down as it warms up and the tolerance gaps expand.

Why wouldnt they simply spin the compressor and report back on their findings ? they simply ignored  my request  was  I  zeroing in on the culprit perhaps ??

Bottom line they wont repair  cars presenting with this type of noise, as skoda UK have told them they wont get paid for any associated work carried out under warranty. I enquired about the price of an AC compressor - £600 ,  I will just park that up here  and let you draw your own conclusions.

[Sec8200]

@johnny cabbage head thanks for sharing!

Let us know if you have any news.

 

If it's AC then it's safer than being vacuum-oil pump.

[johnny cabbage head]

16 hours ago, Sec8200 said:

@johnny cabbage head thanks for sharing!

Let us know if you have any news.

 

If it's AC then it's safer than being vacuum-oil pump.

I took the decision to  remove front OS Wheel, place on axle stands take the inner wheel arch  off and remove the Auxilliary Drive belt yesterday, to try and narrow down by process of elimination the actual source of this noise. as this is really bugging me, it sounds less refined than the 2013 superb I just traded in .

Started engine from cold - sound was there immediatley, even more pronounced when I dabbed the brake pedal. I removed the Auxilliray drive belt taking the Alternator and A/C Compressor out of the diagnostic equation.

The noise was still there and was coming from around the crank pulley. I tried to find some in depth information on the design of this CRLB 2.0 110KW  TDi Engine and it does appear that there is a combined Vacuum/ oil pump that runs off the crankshaft. I am currently trying to find some technical drawings, photos,  or videos of this set up.

Is your car still making this noise?  any problems with car performance? has it increased in volume/ intensity? , Has anyone monitored their oil pressure on VCDS after encountering this noise ? it sounds like something is about to fail on the engine. If I had heard that noise on the forecourt I would have walked away- but the car was warm, and on a busy road so I didnt hear the noise on start up.

Lovely looking car and drives OK but this is a nagging seed of doubt in my mind, if something sounds  out of balance on an engine -then there usually is something out of Balance.

I believe somebody changed their oil pump and noise dissapeared but came back again , anyone else changed the oil pump due to this noise ? If the oil pump fails its instant Death to the Engine, would have been happier if it was the A/C Compressor that was the culprit but it isnt.

Edited 19 April, 2019 by johnny cabbage head
link to video

[johnny cabbage head]

7 hours ago, johnny cabbage head said:

I took the decision to  remove front OS Wheel, place on axle stands take the inner wheel arch  off and remove the Auxilliary Drive belt yesterday, to try and narrow down by process of elimination the actual source of this noise. as this is really bugging me, it sounds less refined than the 2013 superb I just traded in .

Started engine from cold - sound was there immediatley, even more pronounced when I dabbed the brake pedal. I removed the Auxilliray drive belt taking the Alternator and A/C Compressor out of the diagnostic equation.

The noise was still there and was coming from around the crank pulley. I tried to find some in depth information on the design of this CRLB 2.0 110KW  TDi Engine and it does appear that there is a combined Vacuum/ oil pump that runs off the crankshaft. I am currently trying to find some technical drawings, photos,  or videos of this set up.

Is your car still making this noise?  any problems with car performance? has it increased in volume/ intensity? , Has anyone monitored their oil pressure on VCDS after encountering this noise ? it sounds like something is about to fail on the engine. If I had heard that noise on the forecourt I would have walked away- but the car was warm, and on a busy road so I didnt hear the noise on start up.

Lovely looking car and drives OK but this is a nagging seed of doubt in my mind, if something sounds  out of balance on an engine -then there usually is something out of Balance.

I believe somebody changed their oil pump and noise dissapeared but came back again , anyone else changed the oil pump due to this noise ? If the oil pump fails its instant Death to the Engine, would have been happier if it was the A/C Compressor that was the culprit but it isnt.

 

[Sec8200]

hi,

Yes - brake pedal modifies the sound. I was amazed when you said AC - all sources were pointing to vacuum-oil pump. Some even replaced it and - after 6 months the same.

Yes - mine does it. Started from 15k km and same at 40k km. No change in the sound itself, nor perfomance. Cosmetic so far. Talking to various people - same for 100k+ on 2.0 TDI. Started from new, even they were shown brand new cars in the show room - same noise. Some have it louder, some not - but all have it.

 

Strange is that it's slow noise compared to the rotation of the belt in your video. If you find it and record the pump itself please share - at least I know where the beast is

[johnny cabbage head]

17 hours ago, Sec8200 said:

hi,

Yes - brake pedal modifies the sound. I was amazed when you said AC - all sources were pointing to vacuum-oil pump. Some even replaced it and - after 6 months the same.

Yes - mine does it. Started from 15k km and same at 40k km. No change in the sound itself, nor perfomance. Cosmetic so far. Talking to various people - same for 100k+ on 2.0 TDI. Started from new, even they were shown brand new cars in the show room - same noise. Some have it louder, some not - but all have it.

 

Strange is that it's slow noise compared to the rotation of the belt in your video. If you find it and record the pump itself please share - at least I know where the beast is

 4mins 30 seconds into this Audi technical training video, they actually talk about this combined vacuum /oil pump, it was like trying to find a Unicorn digging out some intel on this  oil/ vacuum pump set up on the newer  skoda tdI,s. at least you know where the Beast Lurks - you can hear it with a stethoscope or plastic tube used as a sounding rod against the sump.

 

I was initially being influenced by a chap who posted a video of his car with exactly the same noise as my car - in fact I thought he had hijacked my video !! however his noise dissapeared after he changed the A/C compressor hence my decision to remove the auxilliary drive belt to eliminate the AC compressor and Alternator from the list of suspects.

The noise was still present with the auxuliiary belt removed , so I knew it wasnt either the AC compressor or the Alternator, I began to wonder why was I lying on my back on the yard stripping down  a car I had just paid a lot of money for. But I had to know where this noise is definatley coming from.

I listened to the engine run minus the belt I recorded it and can post it if you wish to see it , though the noise was coming from the crank pulley -or directly behind it. Further investigation reveals the combined oil vacuum pump runs off a toothed "lifetime belt" inside the sump, it is a trickle down technology from the Audi V6 TDI engine . I can post a an official Audi training video whic shows the pump and talks about its technical aspects, and how the newer improved combined pump on this newer engine Has a piston  in it to control pressure.

I was initially being influenced by a chap who posted a video of his car with exactly the same noise as my car - in fact I thought he had hijacked my video !! however his noise dissapeared after he changed the A/C compressor hence my decision to remove the auxilliary drive belt to eliminate the AC compressor and Alternator from the list of suspects.

The noise was still present with the auxuliiary belt removed , so I knew it wasnt either the AC compressor or the Alternator, I began to wonder why was I lying on my back on the yard stripping down  a car I had just paid a lot of money for. But I had to know where this noise is definatley coming from.

I listened to the engine run minus the belt I recorded it and can post it if you wish to see it , though the noise was coming from the crank pulley -or directly behind it. Further investigation reveals the combined oil vacuum pump runs off a toothed "lifetime belt" inside the sump, it is a trickle down technology from the Audi V6 TDI engine . I can post a an official Audi training video whic shows the pump and talks about its technical aspects, and how the newer improved combined pump on this newer engine Has a piston  in it to control pressure.

Edited 20 April, 2019 by johnny cabbage head

[johnny cabbage head]

On 19/04/2019 at 19:42, Sec8200 said:

hi,

Yes - brake pedal modifies the sound. I was amazed when you said AC - all sources were pointing to vacuum-oil pump. Some even replaced it and - after 6 months the same.

Yes - mine does it. Started from 15k km and same at 40k km. No change in the sound itself, nor perfomance. Cosmetic so far. Talking to various people - same for 100k+ on 2.0 TDI. Started from new, even they were shown brand new cars in the show room - same noise. Some have it louder, some not - but all have it.

 

Strange is that it's slow noise compared to the rotation of the belt in your video. If you find it and record the pump itself please share - at least I know where the beast is

Page 12 of this pdf elaborates the design of this combo pump , scouring the internet for reports of actual failures of this pump and so far not found any related to this type of oil pump/ just to appease your worries (and mine)

http://pics3.tdiclub.com/data/517/820433_EA288.pdf

[aki78]

I discovered this noise at 150k km: 

 

 

The same at 200k km: 

 

 

Currently at 260k km on the clock and the noise didn't get any worse or louder (no video).

Edited 21 April, 2019 by aki78

[johnny cabbage head]

36 minutes ago, aki78 said:

I discovered this noise at 150k km: 

 

 

The same at 200k km: 

 

 

Currently at 260k km on the clock and the noise didn't get any worse or louder (no video).

Thanks for your update- Your noise started late in life compared to may cars, but as Sec8200 commented earlier - it seems they all have this noise and I feel better about it knowing there are many cars with this noise that have gone on to cover thousands of miles without any catastropies occuring. How old is your car and which model is yours ? thanks for your contribution and for coming back with some up to date feedback -

[aki78]

13 minutes ago, johnny cabbage head said:

Thanks for your update- Your noise started late in life compared to may cars, but as Sec8200 commented earlier - it seems they all have this noise and I feel better about it knowing there are many cars with this noise that have gone on to cover thousands of miles without any catastropies occuring. How old is your car and which model is yours ? thanks for your contribution and for coming back with some up to date feedback -

The noise probably started much earlier than I discovered.

It's a 2.0 TDI 150PS with DSG - 5 years and 2 months old.

We have 2 other O3 at our company with the same engine/mileage/age, they also do this.

By the way my first thought was DMF issue because the noise is similar.

Edited 21 April, 2019 by aki78

[johnny cabbage head]

36 minutes ago, aki78 said:

The noise probably started much earlier than I discovered.

It's a 2.0 TDI 150PS with DSG - 5 years and 2 months old.

We have 2 other O3 at our company with the same engine/mileage/age, they also do this.

By the way my first thought was DMF issue because the noise is similar.

Its certainly a worrying noise, and its hard to believe it when you are told than a piece of supposedly fine engineering in the form of a cutting edge Euro 6 super efficient Diesel engine in a car that costs £32.000 can  produce  a sound like a brick in a cement mixer

[alfalincs]

My 2014 2.0 tdi 4x4 threw a wobbly last night I really don't understand at all. I've done 20,000 miles in the car and the engine has not missed a beat.....but last night we had a family trip to the theatre in Leeds, had a nice steady run in about 20 miles and just before we reach the multi storey I'm getting strange noises from the engine and thinking " oh hell the cambelts gone. ..or the turbos gone" as power seemed to disappear as well.  Anyway as I parked it the noise went away but I still called thd AA who were there in 20 minutes. No warning lights, oil and water OK, nothing hanging off.....se we took a risk and started it. It was as smooth as you like. Me and thd AA man drove it round the car park and it seemed fine........so now I feel like a twit, but my wife heard the noises too. After the theatre we decided to drive home steadily and the car ran perfectly.

 

So what in heavens name is going on......was it doing a particulate recharge or was an egr fault......or did I imagine it all ? ( I don't think I did). Well in two weeks its got to drive 200 miles to Hereford. ...so that willbe interesting. I wonder if there is a fault code logged......might try that, but I doubt it somehow.

[johnny cabbage head]

2 hours ago, alfalincs said:

My 2014 2.0 tdi 4x4 threw a wobbly last night I really don't understand at all. I've done 20,000 miles in the car and the engine has not missed a beat.....but last night we had a family trip to the theatre in Leeds, had a nice steady run in about 20 miles and just before we reach the multi storey I'm getting strange noises from the engine and thinking " oh hell the cambelts gone. ..or the turbos gone" as power seemed to disappear as well.  Anyway as I parked it the noise went away but I still called thd AA who were there in 20 minutes. No warning lights, oil and water OK, nothing hanging off.....se we took a risk and started it. It was as smooth as you like. Me and thd AA man drove it round the car park and it seemed fine........so now I feel like a twit, but my wife heard the noises too. After the theatre we decided to drive home steadily and the car ran perfectly.

 

So what in heavens name is going on......was it doing a particulate recharge or was an egr fault......or did I imagine it all ? ( I don't think I did). Well in two weeks its got to drive 200 miles to Hereford. ...so that willbe interesting. I wonder if there is a fault code logged......might try that, but I doubt it somehow.

what were the symptoms ? sudden loss of power followed by some strange noises or strange noises followed by, by loss of power? what kind of noise was it eg metallic clattering, low resonance ,high resonance etc. not really  enough detail to go on to make any sort of guess as to what occured. sudden loss of power can sometimes be turbo overboost  or maf sensor .

[alfalincs]

1 hour ago, johnny cabbage head said:

what were the symptoms ? sudden loss of power followed by some strange noises or strange noises followed by, by loss of power? what kind of noise was it eg metallic clattering, low resonance ,high resonance etc. not really  enough detail to go on to make any sort of guess as to what occured. sudden loss of power can sometimes be turbo overboost  or maf sensor .

 

I know I didnt describe the noise very well as I'm struggling to remember it accurately as it occurred literally as we were entering the car park and I was so busy handling the car park entry chicanes before I could stop safely, and then it seemed to have gone so I didn't have a very big window of opportunity  to take it in and analyse it.There were also characters on quad bikes making a racket heading into The city centre. I do know it put the heebe jeebies into me. It can't be turbo over boost as we were in traffic and going slowly. MAF ?  Hmmm. ...... It occurred just after a traffic light junction and just across the junction was the filter for the car park......I cant really describe it, but it clearly wasn't the cam belt, so whatever it was, was transient. I havn't driven the car today except to move it a couple of feet and it started OK but I'm now very nervy of the slightest thing big does. I'm afraid I shall just have to see how it goes and hope. The 20 mile trip home with 4 up and some steep climbs, was event free ( apart from two deer in the road), but I kept my max speed to about 50 or so. No more strange noises or power loss.

 

Sorry I can't be any more explicit right now.

[alfalincs]

Stuck the OBD reader on it today. Nothing logged or pending. I'm not sure I expected anything anyway, but you never know.

[EagleRocky]

Just to confirm, i also have this exact noise in my car: https://youtu.be/Y1MMgKtCGH8

[alfalincs]

My car has now run perfectly for over a week, so I have concluded I was probably jumping at shadows. I have just watched that Audi technical bulletin film and been left with the  feeling that the car I really need is something like a Mk4 Cortina, or even a Morris Minor..... i.e. something I understand... I had not appreciated the complication of the cooling circuits and the additional complication in general necessitated by Euro 5 and 6 emissions standards. I knew they were difficult to comply with, but I hadn't quite appreciated how difficult.

[EagleRocky]

Just to let others know, im now facing engine overheating which points towards broken water pump.. not sure if it is at all related or not to be honest.

Edited 20 May, 2019 by EagleRocky