Hello,

My name is Midas and I am a new member on this forum. I have 3 skoda's and one of them is a Forman from 1996, a very late model.

 

Because the original engine had a lot of problems, i decided i could also fit a 1.6 vw engine from a felicia. The engine is already in the car and the only thing i have to do is make it run.... but that is easier said then done... Appearently, the vw engine has an immobiliser (i think that's what it is called in English). I found out that the immobiliser works with some sort of ring around the contact, some sort of black box and the Felicia key.

 

My question is, has someone done an engineswap like this and knows how to connect the black immobiliser box? I will post some pictures later this evening.

 

Thanks already,

 

Midas

Okay, photo's didn't coöperate, so here is a beautiful paint sketch.

 

In this sketch I have tried to draw how the immobiliser is connected in the (donor) Felicia. On my attempt to get the 1.6 running in the Forman, i connected the immobiliser like this, except for the wires that go to the ABS thingy and the airbag thingy (don't have those on my Forman). The grey/white wire is also nog connected to anything. what i did notice is this: When i put the black wire (the end that goes to a relais) directly on the battery +, i heard a very quiet clicking sound out of the immobiliser box. I thought that I had it working, but still no signal to the injectors :(

 

This is as many information that I can give and I hope that somebody can help me because I am at a dead end right now.

 

thanks for reading,

 

Midas

What year is the donor Felicia? Prior or after 01.98 ?

The donor is from '98. There is another donor that's from '96, but that one was not running properly before it was parked.

This is the wiring diagram on Felicia.

Thanks! I see i have to change a few.things. Hopefully it will work now

Okay, the engine still does not run.... bummer. What I was also wondering: Do the new favorits/forman (1996) have a factory immobiliser? The wiring loom in the engine is very similar to the felicia. What I also noticed is that the fuelpump is not working... Tomorrow I will contact a Skoda/volkswagen garage with experience in removing the immobiliser thingy in the ecu. May that will work best and is the easiest way to get the car running.

@Midaskoda - I think a 1996 European spec car will be one of the first with a factory immobiliser yes.

On 12/5/2017 at 22:12, Midaskoda said:

What I also noticed is that the fuelpump is not working...

Even with a working immobilizer, you should hear the fuel pump whirring to prime when key on. When cranking, the engine should start and run for 2 seconds then die.

 

On 12/5/2017 at 22:12, Midaskoda said:

Do the new favorits/forman (1996) have a factory immobiliser?

It is for the first time I'm reading about a '96 Favorit. I don't know of any Favorit having an immobilizer.

Okay that is strange... so maybe my immo is working, but I might have a problem with my fuelpump relay? Is it true that the injectors also get their + form the fuelpump relay?

4 hours ago, Midaskoda said:

Okay that is strange... so maybe my immo is working, but I might have a problem with my fuelpump relay?

 

Yes but not only. Fuse, relay, wiring, pump itself.

 

Is it true that the injectors also get their + form the fuelpump relay?

 

Yes. See diagram.

Okay thanks for the diagram! 

Dit is echt een grote klus.   Heb zelf een Favorit van 1993, al 10 j.  bevalt me nog steeds goed.

Hou de cijfers voor de Forman niet bij, maar zojuist gechecked er zijn nog slecht +/- 15 Favorits in NL die de weg op mogen.

Veel succes met de verbouwing.

 

Tja, de favoritjes worden/zijn schaars... Deze mag momenteel niet de weg op want de apk is ondertussen al verlopen De aanpassingen die ik heb genaakt zijn niet zodanig dat de auto niet meer origineel te maken is.

 

I have another question I discovered that the fuelpump on the late favorits is located next to the ecu. In the felicia the fuelpump relay is located in the fusebox under the dash (i assume?). So my question is what the wires on the connectors in the engine bay are for so i can connect a fuelpump relay. The first pic is the connector of the forman comming form the dash, and the second pic is the connector from the felicia comming from the engine/ecu.

 

Greets, Midas

Edited 9 December, 20178 yr by Midaskoda

@Piko and @Midaskoda

This is an English only forum. If native language is used (usually for better understanding of technical terms) it is a gesture of courtesy to have an English translation too.

 

@Midaskoda

For the vast majority of members of this section, "late" 1996 Favorit is unheard of. Year 1995 is officially the last production year. So you might own a special, experimental car produced in a very low series with no workshop manual.

We were talking about how few favorits there are left in the Netherlands.

On 12/9/2017 at 21:20, RicardoM said:

 

@Midaskoda

For the vast majority of members of this section, "late" 1996 Favorit is unheard of. Year 1995 is officially the last production year. So you might own a special, experimental car produced in a very low series with no workshop manual.

In most of Europe the date of first registration is shown on the plates. It's not unheard of for the runout models of a car to be first registered a year to 18 months after the actual date of manufacture, so there's no actual inconstancy here; just an apparent one generated by the delay in registering the car.

So, I got it running, but it stalls after about 15 seconds... It looks like the immobiliser is working and i connected a relais to trigger the injection and fuelpump (that was missing because the favorit from 01-93 has it in the enginebay and the felicia does not). When the engine stalls, it seems like it doesn't get any fuel, but it could also be something else. 

 

I know the problem can have many causes, but maybe there are a few possibilities that could be likely in this case. Does anyone have an idea what it could be?

 

Greets, Midas

You have to monitor the fuel pump relay on the control side with a test lamp. 

I monitored it and it is all fine, but what i noticed is this: The fuelpump keeps pumping, like it can't get any pressure. Nornally it shuts off when the fuelsystem is at the right pressure when the engine is not running.

 

Is this normal with favorits or might there be something wrong with my fuelpump/system?

In this case it is mandatory to monitor the fuel pressure. The pump or the fuel pressure regulator might be faulty (among others, like a badly clogged fuel filter, etc.)

Edited 18 December, 20178 yr by RicardoM

What fuel pump are you using? I think that Favorits and early Felicias used different fuel pump with lower fuel pressure, than MPI variants.

I am using the original fuelpump that is located in the fueltank. I will try to figure out if the mpi engines use a different fuelpump.

I did some research on Czech forums. MPI system really works with higher fuel pressure, than SPI (2.5-3 vs 1.1bar) and fuel pumps are different and not interchargeable (different mounts in fuel tank, but it can be modified). 

But they also claim that pump's motor is same in both types, with maximum presure way above working pressure of both systems.

 

Definitive answer will be fuel pressure measurement. MPI should have 2.5 bar working pressure (3 bar with unplugged vacuum reduction valve). It is possible, that pump is just bad or clogged (pretty common in these cars) but it was able to provide enough fuel for SPI, so no one noticed.

Edited 19 December, 20178 yr by Papez

Hello,

 

Thanks for all the tips and information! I swapped the original forman fuelpump for a fuelpump from the donor felicia and now it works! Thanks for the research Papez! And thanks to RicardoM for the wiring diagrams! I also finished up the final things for MOT (in The Netherlands it is called APK) and i will give another update if it is runnand AND driving 

 

Greets, Midas