Necessary OE to replace when modifying VRS

[Grilled]

I quite enjoy my VRS but a bit more Oomph never goes a miss, I know I can map it and get a good improvement but I’d like to use the limits of the original components whilst switching out only what needs to be replaced if necessary. 

 

Thoughts, opinions and recommendations on the following please! 

 

An uprated clutch is on the cards and will likely need to be installed before any mapping, I understand the Sachs SRE DM is the best to use for up to 400lb/f ?

 

Intake - OE paper filter, read it’s good for 220bhp+ a few times and I’m happy to use one. I’d rather keep the standard air box, is there any worthwhile upgrade apart from the PD160 and FMIC/hardpipe (both already fitted) to help increase good air flow?

 

Exhaust - I’ve seen the standard system is rated for around 220bhp, although unsure if removing the cat will increase this cap further as I’ve read it’s “high flowing” ? 

If I were to fit a 2.25-2.5” system (with silencer) what would be the benefits over a stock system if both were running say 230bhp? Is it worth the swap?

 

Injectors - Standard one’s are apparently capable of doing around 240bhp (can do more but it would run lean under long acceleration?), would getting a higher flowing set be beneficial at all if 240 was the maximum power I want to achieve? 

 

Turbo - I’d like to fit a gtb1756 hybrid to keep the boost kick in similar to that of the stock set up and have seen these can make good power. 240bhp would be my max target although with the other supporting OE such as exhaust and injectors I think 230bhp is more obtainable, there’s not much in 10hp and the torque will likely be the same anyway. 

Is there any benefit (with the exception of further modification later) of running a larger turbo such as a gtb2056 or 2060 when all are mapped for 230bhp, some have said it’ll pull harder than the 1756 but all I can think it’ll do is cause more lag? 

 

 

So with all that in mind;

 

is 230-240bhp obtainable safely with a hybrid 1756 and the rest of the original equipment if mapped well? 

 

Also while looking for value is the Darkside “hybrid killer” (240-ish bhp) drive in drive out service the best value/option at around £2250+VAT? 

I can’t find any similar services although I suppose in reality if I fitted a larger turbo myself and took it for mapping it would cost around half of that for similar power. 

 

Thanks for reading guys  

 

 

[sepulchrave]

All you need is a front mount intercooler, a bigger turbo, beefier clutch and decent map. The rest is just garnish. You might want 312 brakes and proper suspendies so you can use the poke.

[Grilled]

15 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

All you need is a front mount intercooler, a bigger turbo, beefier clutch and decent map. The rest is just garnish. You might want 312 brakes and proper suspendies so you can use the poke.

 

That’s a pretty straightforward and satisfying answer thanks haha! 

 

I’ve got a set of 312 and 256 vented rears to fit before any power mods, such an affordable improvement it’d be silly not to. 

As for suspension, this isn’t a stance/race car so coilovers are a bit OTT but I’ve been looking at Bilstein B12 pro set up which has a rather subtle 25mm drop and should keep it comfortable enough for the UK’s pothole ridden roads! 

[sepulchrave]

6 hours ago, Grilled said:

 

That’s a pretty straightforward and satisfying answer thanks haha! 

 

I’ve got a set of 312 and 256 vented rears to fit before any power mods, such an affordable improvement it’d be silly not to. 

As for suspension, this isn’t a stance/race car so coilovers are a bit OTT but I’ve been looking at Bilstein B12 pro set up which has a rather subtle 25mm drop and should keep it comfortable enough for the UK’s pothole ridden roads! 

 

Sounds perfect, get 'er done.

Edited 9 April, 2018 by sepulchrave

[duck]

Quote

Turbo - I’d like to fit a gtb1756 hybrid to keep the boost kick in similar to that of the stock set up and have seen these can make good power. 240bhp would be my max target although with the other supporting OE such as exhaust and injectors I think 230bhp is more obtainable

 

You do not need a hybrid GTB1756, a stock GTB1756 will do the trick and should be ultra reliable.

 

You have pretty much described my setup and it mapped initially on rolling road at 240bhp and 350lbs torque, I have vacuum converted GTB1756, standard airbox and paper filter, standard exhaust system with de-cat. PD150 head bolts, Airted FMIC and Sachs SRE on SMF.

 

I have no regrets choosing the GTB1756 turbo, it drives very nice, if your looking for a DIY option try profi diesel

 

 

[Grilled]

Handy to know that a stock gtb1756 makes such good power still, I think I’d still like the hybrid though as it should make a difference on spooling, hard to say if worth the extra but I don’t want to feel like I missed out when I had the chance. 

 

Sounds like the perfect set up to me, although I’ll probably for for a DMF as I’ve not personally heard up close or driven a SM diesel before and don’t want to take the gearbox off again!

I’ve a spare downpipe with the decaf removed so that’ll do nicely. 

 

Where did you get yours mapped, they were happy running 240bhp? I’ve seen some reputable places quote 220/230 on the turbo’s limit but have seen many of the hybrids push way more! 

 

[duck]

I would suggest checking with whoever you are going to use for mapping that they are happy doing the hybrid you decide to purchase as some so called hybrids are not very good unless you intend buying from someone like turbo dynamics and paying top dollar, with the standard GTB you get standard reliability i.e. bullet proof.

 

I initially took mine to Narco for mapping, I would not recommend them as it belched smoke, was very laggy and caused intermittent fault codes, they did not listen to what I (the customer) was asking for which was a high mileage daily driver with low smoke, when I logged using VCDS I found the start of injection was bordering on the unreliable and the duration was excessive causing the bad smoke.

 

I have since had it mapped by a proper professional who listened to what I wanted and worked to get it exactly how I required, it drives much better now (100% better, little lag and low smoke) I would not use anyone else: Diesel Powered

 

I have found DMF to be unreliable and so I have accepted the noise created by the SMF to get a strong clutch/flywheel setup, sachs SRE is the way to go in my opinion be it SMF or DMF.

 

Take rolling road figures with a pinch of salt, its how it drives that really matters. 

 

[Grilled]

I can’t think it would cause much problem for most mappers but saying that my local VAG specialist told me they weren’t remapping diesels because of the whole VW scandal for a while! 

Still you’re right, I shall check first. I was looking at getting one from dark matter tuning, I’ve not ready anything negative about them and the cost after postage is £820, I checked turbo dynamics but it seems they only offer a Hybrid standard turbo but maybe a phone call is needed to get exactly what I want. 

 

I’ve read a lot of praise for Narco but it does seem a lot of their maps are quite smokey and that’s what a lot of people like (for some reason). Diesel powered are a bit of a trek for me but I’d travel for the right job so thanks for the recommendation.

 

I agree with you that DMF aren’t the most reliable and as mine is on the way out it’ll need replacing with either option. At least with a SMF you wouldn’t need to be to careful about always changing down a gear when the revs are about borderline for the gear. I’m on the fence still about it but I’ve a bit of time to mull over it and research it. Definitely the SRE clutch though I’ve never seen anyone say anything bad compared to similar products on the market. 

 

Yeah we we all know rolling road figures are mainly a ****ing contest and vary from one roller to the next. If it can get me to work 30 seconds quicker then I’d be happy with that!

[sepulchrave]

54 minutes ago, Grilled said:

I’ve read a lot of praise for Narco but it does seem a lot of their maps are quite smokey and that’s what a lot of people like (for some reason).

 

That's because morons believe ancient cliches like "no smoke, no poke", a piece of prehistoric wisdom from back in the days when diesel injection pressures were ~100 bar instead of ~1500 bar and atomisation was therefore dreadful necessitating injecting far more fuel than could actually combust, hence lots of unburnt fuel in the form of black smoke.

Excess fuel in modern PD and CR diesels simply raises EGT leading to premature turbo failure. You can lead a horse to water...

[duck]

The Dark Matter GTB is not a hybrid its a std GTB by the look of it.

 

I read lots of good things about Narco and travelled 150 miles to get my VRS mapped, I was extremely disappointed, I paid top money for a custom remap and they did not listen to what I was asking for and just did what they do for their regular young customers....max power regardless of smoke, when the mapper pitches up 20 minutes late eating his Mc Donalds and does not ask you what turbo is fitted or any specs of the car, or what your aims are you have to start worrying a bit!

 

Good luck with your upgrades, its well worth it if you fancy a nippy VRS.