Oil Temperature.

[macamx]

Recently enabled the "Oil Temp" readout on the 1.2tsi, had a brisk run down the A1 and the oil temp was around 99/100 degrees C, is that about where it should be?

 

Geoff.

[Ootohere]

Yes, and then back down around 90-92 degrees with a TSI as you slow down, the weather cools etc.

[macamx]

Thanks for that.

 

Geoff.

[Kobayashi]

The MK3 Fabia seems to run around high 90's most of the time

[RickW]

Had mine two and a half years and it's consistently at that temperature. 

[Ootohere]

Has anyone stopped using Skoda's recommended Long Life Oil and gone to VW 502 00 so 5w 40 FS and fixed service intervals and noticed that the 'Indicated Oil Temps' are a few degrees lower and lowers quicker from when it goes up above 100 *oC?

(drop the long life oil and get a longer lived TSI IMO.)

[Guest]

No, not noticed that Offski, but is plausable. Was going to say that with a car load of people on a very hot day with the aircon running the oil temp at motorway speeds can climb considerably. Use to see around 104-105c quite often or even higher. Up to around the 110c mark is fine though, and the oil and engine are designed to be just fine at though temps. Interestingly, the fuel consumption does improve with those high oil temps for lots of reasons, and not due to the actual oil being any thinner, because it's not!

[Ootohere]

The issue when the Oil Temp keeps going higher is that energy is required to cool the coolant and the oil which is a coolant.

So you have Air cooling with the radiator as speed obviously but then as we know the fuel consumption increases (simplification obviously not going downhill)  as you go from say 60 mpg to 80 mph.

So all swings and roundabouts really.

 

The Engineers design the Coolant and Oil and Emissions System to get to Operating Temperatures and Efficient Operating Temperatures and use the Oils that assist in that for the Environment / Global Regions,  but then have different specs for Long Life & Fixed Service Oils, Temp Ranges, 

& now VW have done what others did before to get the WLTP results,  ie VW 508 / 509 oil,  so 0w 20 FS LL.

 

Good for the Co2 g/km figures being lower under test conditions, but some crazy retail prices of oil, 

except not all are asking £17 a litre, an Audi Dealership was flogging some with a sell by date not that far into the future for £7 a litre delivered.

Edited 4 September, 2018 by Offski

[Guest]

Yes, noticed that Offski. Not a bad price and it's good for an engine flush! But not much more unless you cover lots of miles very quickly. 

[Ootohere]

Like lots of food it is not going off when unopened. It is Fully Synthetic Oil after all.

If you are doing oil changes and in more than one vehicle it is a bargain.

Sh!t oil regardless of the hype IMO.   Not seen VW Group Dealership showing that they are using VW 507 / 508 in their services with vehicles that have left the factory with it in yet.

 

As to using as an engine flush, there are plenty cheap litres of Full Synthetic around for less than £7 a litre.

Personally i use the oil in the engine as a flush, it gets taken out for a roasting then gets sucked out, then the sump plug removed.

Edited 4 September, 2018 by Offski

[Guest]

Actually, all oil "goes off" as you put it. Whether fully sealed from the factory or in an opened but sealed up tin or bottle, they all have a use by date. The reason for that is  some additives in the oil slowly turn to water and other molecules break down too. Fully syn oil lasts between 4 and 5 years in an unopened tin or bottle and should not be used after that as it won't do it's job. The actual time limit is set by the manufacturer and can be different for different brands...but is usually 4 or 5 years, some a bit less. If you have some fully syn oil that is in a tin or bottle and it's been opened, it has a maximum "safe" life of up to 2 years. These times depend also on the original date the oil was manufactured and bottled. The dates are on the tins or bottles sometime in code. We always had to check those dates to make sure the oil was still in date. Performance of the oil if used after the use by date is considerably impeded and will not meet it's standard. We tested some out of date Shell fully syn oil sometime ago. That Shell oil had a maximum 'safe' use by date in an unopened tin of 4 years. It was just over 5 1/2 years old at the time of the test. Water content had increase by 5% over it's factory state and oil film strength had declined by 20% using the standard international testing method laid down by the SAE. 

[Ootohere]

Yes it sits produced,  and sits in bulk where it will be used up if people are bulk buying,  or just bottled,  then goes in engines where it might be 12 months before a car is ever given a PDI or first registered then the engines goes  24 months or more with that oil.  Sometimes 'simply clever'  to be sure you change oil early in 'ex demobstrators'  get them serviced before buying a used car, or right after.    Some of these cars sitting stored because no WLTP will have been filled with oil for a long time before on the road,  those that are going on the road under Derogation Rules,  we're built over 6 months ago. 

   

Edited 5 September, 2018 by Offski

[Guest]

Yes, although factory fill oil is very fresh. They use thousands of gallons a month and the cars are sent out with that fresh oil. Officially the car has 24 months where it's safe to use that oil, after which the performance of that oil drops off. In reality, most cars are ordered and sold and used by the buyer just weeks after being produced. So even on a variable setting it's quite ok and no need for concern. 

 

Going back to the Audi oil thing at £7 litre. It's cheaper than the flushing oil we used to use in the workshop. And it's actually better in most cases to use a thin fully syn oil rather than a flushing agent. Some engines don't like being flushed with some of the more agressive cleaning/flushing oils so this cheap oil would be better. But it does require a run after filling and then a hot drain. 

[oilman]

On 05/09/2018 at 15:17, Estate Man said:

Y And it's actually better in most cases to use a thin fully syn oil rather than a flushing agent. Some engines don't like being flushed with some of the more agressive cleaning/flushing oils so this cheap oil would be better. But it does require a run after filling and then a hot drain. 

 

I agree with this, many of the flushing additives and oils out there are solvent based, and can be bit too harsh and it never all comes out, so you are mixing fresh oil with whats left of some solvent flushing additive. Some flushes though are detergent based and they are not so bad.

 

Cheers,

 

Guy

[Ootohere]

Detergent Based.   That will be Sodium / Salt based is it?     

Sodium like was the issue with DQ200 DSG that meant the VW Group did a World Wide Recall & had them change the DQ200 Oil from Synthetic to mineral.

There was internal corrosion with the Synthetic and Sulphur build up.

 

Detergents are what Royal Dutch Shell & others big up with Premium Fuels.  Cleans the engines.  Detergent & Additive packages.

Great if engines have carbon build up,  not great with the TSI engines with Bore Wash issues maybe.

 

But that is a just a 'Dummies' take on Detergents which are manufactured to be for the good, not as a problem.

[oilman]

Hi,

 

No I didn't mean Sodium / Salt based, I was thinking calcium sulphonate. I was referring to a particular engine flush (millers oils) that is based around detergents, essentially a group III oil base bulked with more of the detergents and dispersant you would find in an engine oil.  I believe it also has some zddp in there, also being solvent free it doesn't potentially damage seals.

 

Cheers,

 

Guy

[Ootohere]

Cheers.

Just had a wee read on Calcium Sulfonates.  I will read more later.

Sulfonates_fnWeb.pdf

Edited 10 September, 2018 by Offski

[Guest]

MIllers engine flush works brilliantly and is the only thing you can use on some engines. As oilman says, some engines just don't like solvent based stuff. The PD engines are an example of this. Never use a solvent based flush on one of them. It can have alarming results. 

[oilman]

It is the only one I am personally happy to recommend to customers, I do not like solvent based flushes some even contain white spirit.

 

Cheers,

 

Guy

[Guest]

21 hours ago, Offski said:

Cheers.

Just had a wee read on Calcium Sulfonates.  I will read more later.

Sulfonates_fnWeb.pdf

 

Offski, I read this as you'd just had a 'wee', then read up on Calcium Sulfonate...