Being a person who wishes to embrace new technology.

Toyota are the only manufacture in the Citigo segment who market an Electric/Petrol Hybrid.

(I'm ignoring the Suzuki Swift soft Hybrid in this discussion because, although it appears to be a inovative solution, it's not a true hybrid).

As I said, I've tried to justify buying the Yaris Hybrid as my next car instead of another Citigo - and, I can't justify the Yaris Hybrid.

The initial cost is about £4,000/£5,000 more than the Citigo (depending on model) & the MPG is approx the same.

So, why should I go for the Yaris Hybrid?

Toyato could have improved the Yaris Hybrid in my opinion, by installing a 3 Cyl 1litre Turbo Engine to go along side the Electric traction motor instead of the normally aspired 1.5 litre unit they've fitted.

Also, why didn't Toyato make it a Plug In Hybrid so a larger Battery could be fitted for greater Electric Only range?

A missed opportunity Toyota!

Edited 27 September, 20187 yr by Ronn

2 hours ago, Ronn said:

Being a person who wishes to embrace new technology.

Toyota are the only manufacture in the Citigo segment who market an Electric/Petrol Hybrid.

(I'm ignoring the Suzuki Swift soft Hybrid in this discussion because, although it appears to be a inovative solution, it's not a true hybrid).

As I said, I've tried to justify buying the Yaris Hybrid as my next car instead of another Citigo - and, I can't justify the Yaris Hybrid.

The initial cost is about £4,000/£5,000 more than the Citigo (depending on model) & the MPG is approx the same.

So, why should I go for the Yaris Hybrid?

Toyato could have improved the Yaris Hybrid in my opinion, by installing a 3 Cyl 1litre Turbo Engine to go along side the Electric traction motor instead of the normally aspired 1.5 litre unit they've fitted.

Also, why didn't Toyato make it a Plug In Hybrid so a larger Battery could be fitted for greater Electric Only range?

A missed opportunity Toyota!

The only real way to reduce running costs (depending what your annual mileage is) is to buy an electric car. However the only decent ones are Tesla’s & Nissan Leafs (newest ones) imo. Both of these cost far too much to even be thinking about at the moment, so I’ve been telling myself to wait and see what Skoda do with the Citigo next year.

 

I'm also one for the future of technology! 

Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Kia, Hyundai / Kia, Mitsubishi, Renault, Nissan are building what the technology and the market can get in the way of smallish and reliable & affordable,

and have proven the technology.

 

VW have discontinued the VW Golf GTE with the 1.4TSI and we await the MY19 version with the 1.5TSI or what ever.

If the first biggest car manufacturer in the world can not do the Hybrid smaller than the Yaris given the current batteries and get range, 

then the 2nd biggest the VW Group are certainly well behind getting the Polo, Fabia or Ibiza sized cars as Hybrids.

 

Amazing cars, amazing new technology to come in the next evolution.  ?? When are they coming, and smaller?

 Vorsprung Durch Technik,   or Just do it, build them. Have them run further without the ICE needed.

 

 

 

For an Electric car to be fit for purpose, ideally it needs to give you the same as a full tank of petrol gives you.

That's about 500/600 miles between re-Charges.

That's years away if indeed it ever happens.

But, ignoring that, it has to give you at least 300+ miles between re-Charges.

Only a couple of cars on the market get anywhere near that & they're 'Crossovers' & bigger (ignoring Tesla on cost).

The problem with any small Electric car in the Citigo market segment is, they cannot or are reluctant to fit a Battery of a large enough capacity to give us 300+ so, an Electric Citigo is going to have limited appeal.

That's where a decent, well thought out Plug In Hybrid would be useful of Citigo size.

Come on manufacturers, we're still waiting.

Wait 2 years then, or 3 or just drive your Citigo. 

The problem is it is 2018 and WLTP caught out many, and VW were caught in 2015. 

 

So the future will happen in the future, just the Japaneses and China and South Korea were getting ready for the future 15 years ago, 

& VW were developing Diesels and Diesel Hybrids and building Engine Plants and Motor plants in Hungary and South American Countries.

Offski, who's to say Toyata can't build a Yaris Hybrid with Plug In capability!

I'm sure the Technoligy is there, they (Toyota) just haven't explored it and instead followed the existing Technology of the Prius.

The Electric Only performance of the Yaris Hybrid is pathetic because it's not Plug In.

Toyota need to now rethink the 10/15 year old Phylosophy on Hybrid a bring out a small Plug In Hybrid with decent Electric Only range.

 

People all around the polluted cities of the world do not have places to 'plug in'.

They live in cities where they might not even be able to get more than a room if that.

Small plug in small 'kei' type cars are a problem until battery cells are smaller, and that is coming, but the Battery Factories are being built,. 

but there will be a world cobalt shortage, and that will control prices.

Norway will mine Cobalt, open up their mines, even Scotland will when the 'Price is right',  there is Cobalt in Scotland just ready for the 'discovering'.

Land owned by wealthy estates that can keep that little revenue income for 'the future'.

 

They as in Toyota can build anything, even autonomous vehicles.

They need to be selling things they build though, the batteries need to be up to the job and that is the elephant in the room, or the weight of a baby elephant in the vehicle.

 

Toyota are not stupid, or likely to run into trouble other than with air bags, carpets and issues like in the past, procured from untrustworthy suppliers,

they will successfully launch what can sell, make money and not lose billions in fines and penalties around the world from cheating.

Edited 27 September, 20187 yr by Offski

Going back to my original question that started this thread, I cannot find a single reason why anyone would swap a small petrol  car like the Citigo for a Toyota Yaris Hybrid that does approx the same MPG and costs £4000 more.

Technology freaks may do it just because the Yaris Hybrid represents clever, inactive engineering but, there's no Ecconomic case for it.

Perhaps Toyota would like to get in touch with me with a convincing argument.

So that they have a car they can take into Low Emission zones, or congestion charge zones, or just lease for commuting and that Philip Hammond MP or any chancellor will let them get a good deal from the HMRC & their BIK.

 

http://toyota.co.uk/motability

Or because they want one, the Toyota Dealerships were punting Yaris Hybrids cheap, & there are cheap ones all around the UK.

Some people just want to drive to the shops, i have neighbours with Hybrid Yaris & Auris and that what they do, go local mostly and sometimes on trips.

Motability buy lots for leasing for 3 years and these are the cheap or not so cheap cars after 3 years after through BCA.

Motability Price List Q3 August 2018_tcm-3060-935170.pdf

 

My iQ had more room for 2 in the front than a UpMiiCitigo, could carry 3 adults and luggage and did better fuel economy than a UpMiiCitigo ASG / 2 pedal car.

Better with the CVT.

Just a pity that Toyota never did an EV or a Hybrid of them and discontinued the car, i loved it, apart from you needed wide parking places to be able to get out the doors, they were huge.

Edited 27 September, 20187 yr by Offski

Ronn, here is why VW is well behind the curve.

 

 

 

How old is that vid?

Because he talks of a new WW US car plant opening in the future in (he says) 2011.

So, that plant has been up & running for 7 yrs.

So, God knows how old that video is.

That is the point, they put all their eggs in the one basket.  Green Diesel and then Diesel Hybrids (Audi Endurance Racing R&D) 

and then it was to be EV's.  Well Audi did the Diesel Hybrids, built the plants, build the cars, & VW / Audi got the Small EV's & the Petrol Hybrids, 

Audi have the EV on sale now,

and now VW are seemingly full steam ahead with I.D. 

So they are well behind the curve.  Put all their money on Black and it came up Red (or Blue for ECO) when the wheel stopped spinning.

 

He was CEO there in the USA 2007-2010 and introduced the new clean diesels in 2008.  He resigned in 2010 to go head Volvo for Geely in 2010 after this video, 

then left Volvo to head GM Global in Asia.

Started with VW went to Mitsubishi, back to VW and was expected to be the CEO of VW Group, but was overlooked......  & then Offski with all the family secrets.

Edited 28 September, 20187 yr by Offski

Offski!

Clean Diesels you say.

Whats happened to them?

Diesels have been demonised by our Gov & the EU!

The UK Gov & EU have destroyed the Diesel market.

They encouraged everyone to buy Diesels and dump Petrol engines because Petrol engines contribute to Greenhouse Gasses.

So, let's all now buy Petrol engine cars & sod the Greenhouse Gasses.

I love growing Pineapples & Bananas!

 

 

They VW Group cheated and were caught.

 

They designed them & built them,sold them in the USA and around the world, but mostly the diesels in Europe, & lots in the UK

 they were producing too much emissions for the USA, they bought from Daimler Mercedes under license the right to use SCR / AdBlue,

& that fluid was getting used up too quickly reducing NoX, so  bigger tanks would have been needed,

(or more top ups, and these were not what the USA wanted between Dealership Visits for servicing,

A cartel of German Manufacturers had seemingly / allegedly conspired on parts/prices / non competition)

So they 'VW' had Bosch software available they had designed for them, but illegal,  Bosch say they said, do not use this, R&D only...

and then VW Group put the Defeat Device in 11 million vehicles (or more) so that under testing there were lower emissions, 

and in 2015 they were exposed, admitted slowly each bit as they had to.   & on it goes.

 

 

 

Edited 28 September, 20187 yr by Offski

Sorry to bring this topic up again... but has anyone looked at the new SEAT Ibiza? I know it’s not hybrid or electric but it seems to be a fairly efficient car that’s one size up from the Citigo. 

 

1L MPI

1L TSI 90ps

1L TSI 115ps

1.5L TSI 150ps 

 

A good range of engines if you ask me! 

 

?

Have SEAT got the Ibiza 1.0 MPI with WLTP Approval yet?

Obviously there is the Sister cars in that size like the Polo with those engines.

Then the Fabia Face Lift bit again no WLTP yet on the 1.0 MPI,  but the 1.0TSI with a GPF has, no 1.5 TSI sadly with the Mid size Skoda..  

 

 

 

Obviously no 1.4 TSI anymore that will be a 1.5 TSI, but even though costing more for a 1.0TSI than a SEAT, Skoda or VW as a keeper you have comfort for as long as you keep it and then you can get a good trade in anywhere unlike if you bought a SEAT.

 

 

 

Edited 22 October, 20187 yr by Offski