Hi, I’m in the process of removing the head to troubleshoot a loss of compression on cylinder 2 and while I was removing the timing chain I noticed it has the old style tensioner that’s known for failing.  Even though it’s done 109k without failing, as she’s in bits I’ll be replacing that, so my question is how much other timing related stuff should I replace and should I buy pattern or genuine. I’ve seen some worrying info about timing upgrade kits being sold with genuine VAG tensioners but from the same old batch as the failing ones, or just low quality all round. Is it necessary to replace the chain, wedges, sprockets etc. even though the timing has not actually failed? I understand there were 2 types of chain, how can I tell which is on there? I also checked to see if I’d suffered a chain jump and found the following: 1. on the cam chain, all timing marks vs blue chain links were 5 links adrift (so all sprockets are correct with respect to one another, but the chain position was off by 5 links) 2. on oil pump chain, top left sprocket and bottom sprocket were both off the blue link by 2 links and the right sprocket was off by 2 links plus 180° (see pic). This leads me to wonder whether the top right sprocket has at some time been replaced 180° off (if that’s even possible) and the shaft it drives is therefore in sync or whether that shaft is actually running 180° out of sync (and whether that matters).

Info on which timing parts to replace and where to get them most appreciated, thanks all.

PS I have trawled the many threads on this subject but as they all deal with replacing parts after an actual failure they don’t exactly answer my question, cheers.

On 12/10/2018 at 16:26, TygerTyger said:

When I was removing the timing chain I noticed it has the old style tensioner that’s known for failing.  
My question is how much other timing related stuff should I replace and should I buy pattern or genuine ?
Is it necessary to replace the chain, wedges, sprockets etc. even though the timing has not actually failed ?
I understand there were 2 types of chain, how can I tell which is on there ?
I also checked to see if I’d suffered a chain jump and found the following:
1.  On the cam chain, all timing marks vs blue chain links were 5 links adrift  ( so all sprockets are correct with respect to one another, but the chain position was off by 5 links )
2.  On oil pump chain, top left sprocket and bottom sprocket were both off the blue link by 2 links and the right sprocket was off by 2 links plus 180° (see pic).
   This leads me to wonder whether the top right sprocket has at some time been replaced 180° off  ( if that’s even possible )
  and the shaft it drives is therefore in sync or whether that shaft is actually running 180° out of sync ( and whether that matters ).

  Info on which timing parts to replace and where to get them ? 

 

I have the same questions as above !

( 2011 ) Skoda Octavia 1.8 TSI  "SCOUT"

.

It is up to you! Recommended practice is replace the camshaft tensioner, chain and guides on the main timing chain.  The earlier variants are a weakness and prone to failure.  Chains also stretched more than they should!  Check revision versions stamped on the tensioner and chain if you think they have been replaced.

 

Of course, there is always more if you want to cover yourself 100%, there is also the pump chain and the counterbalances chain and tensioners! And the camshaft bridge mesh filter.... it goes on....

 

On the timing, it sounds a bit odd.  Have a look at the attached two pages from the VW self guided learning. It looks pretty well detailed.  The pages are designed to be besides one another.  But can still be referenced one after the other.  Of course, I don't have a disassembled engine in front of me to compare to. Some photos of your actual engine timing marks may help.

 

Some paragraphs in your post will also allow readers to understand your questions more fully and efficiently.

 

You know about the oil scraper ring design on CDAAs already right?

 

You're a better and more qualified person than me, disassembling that cylinder head, it is not for the feint hearted home mechanic!  Did you try and put in a bore scope first?> 

SSP401_1 p14 and 15.pdf

On 24/03/2021 at 12:26, TheClient said:

It is up to you! Recommended practice is replace the camshaft tensioner, chain and guides on the main timing chain.  The earlier variants are a weakness and prone to failure.  Chains also stretched more than they should!  Check revision versions stamped on the tensioner and chain if you think they have been replaced.

 

Of course, there is always more if you want to cover yourself 100%, there is also the pump chain and the counterbalances chain and tensioners! And the camshaft bridge mesh filter.... it goes on....

 

On the timing, it sounds a bit odd.  Have a look at the attached two pages from the VW self guided learning. It looks pretty well detailed.  The pages are designed to be besides one another.  But can still be referenced one after the other.  Of course, I don't have a disassembled engine in front of me to compare to. Some photos of your actual engine timing marks may help.

 

Some paragraphs in your post will also allow readers to understand your questions more fully and efficiently.

 

You know about the oil scraper ring design on CDAAs already right?

 

You're a better and more qualified person than me, disassembling that cylinder head, it is not for the feint hearted home mechanic!  Did you try and put in a bore scope first?> 

SSP401_1 p14 and 15.pdf 1.17 MB · 3 downloads

Do you have the rest of that guide? Looks very handy.

On 12/10/2018 at 15:26, TygerTyger said:

Hi, I’m in the process of removing the head to troubleshoot a loss of compression on cylinder 2 and while I was removing the timing chain I noticed it has the old style tensioner that’s known for failing.  Even though it’s done 109k without failing, as she’s in bits I’ll be replacing that, so my question is how much other timing related stuff should I replace and should I buy pattern or genuine. I’ve seen some worrying info about timing upgrade kits being sold with genuine VAG tensioners but from the same old batch as the failing ones, or just low quality all round. Is it necessary to replace the chain, wedges, sprockets etc. even though the timing has not actually failed? I understand there were 2 types of chain, how can I tell which is on there? I also checked to see if I’d suffered a chain jump and found the following: 1. on the cam chain, all timing marks vs blue chain links were 5 links adrift (so all sprockets are correct with respect to one another, but the chain position was off by 5 links) 2. on oil pump chain, top left sprocket and bottom sprocket were both off the blue link by 2 links and the right sprocket was off by 2 links plus 180° (see pic). This leads me to wonder whether the top right sprocket has at some time been replaced 180° off (if that’s even possible) and the shaft it drives is therefore in sync or whether that shaft is actually running 180° out of sync (and whether that matters).

Info on which timing parts to replace and where to get them most appreciated, thanks all.

PS I have trawled the many threads on this subject but as they all deal with replacing parts after an actual failure they don’t exactly answer my question, cheers.

Where is that screenshot from? Do you have the rest of that publication? Getting my 1.8 CDAA nightmare rebuilt and any data is very much appreciated.

I think I have the entire self study manual but it is big and there is not much else on the timing set up.

 

The original image from @TygerTyger looks like it is from a vw repair manual from Erwin which you can download after paying about euro12 for 1 hours access.  It will have all the vw repair manuals available for the car vin you enter. usually well worthwhile if you are doing maintenance and repairs yourself.

Superb. What a gentleman, thanks.

This self study link seems to work. SSP401 for the 1.8 tsi.  Otherwise there is a slightly different one for the 2.0 tsi CCZ.

 

https://cardiagn.com/vag-self-study-program-ssp/

 

Also, if paying for erwin for the repair manual, make sure you subscribe on the skoda site otherwise your vin will not be recognised, there is also erwin for vw, seat, etc.  Although most of the mechanical repair manuals will be the same, your vehicle won't be recognised, it may make searching more difficult.

 

 

 

 

 

Will do. Registered. Ta mate.