Gone Over To The Dark Side

[alltorque]

After 3.25 years of driving Baby Bear, the Topaz Brown MkIII Fabia, we have parted company. She's gone toa new home via an excellent Toyota dealer. She was very well-specced and had <24k miles on.  SE Ls are not flooding the market and the price offered. In P/ex was more than decent. 

 

Had a serious look at replacing her with a new Fabia Estate, but wasn't in love with the 1.0ltr 3-pot. Truth be told, although te DSG 'box was slick, I was always expecting it to do something expensive. Was always a bit disappointed in the interior, too. Overall, there was very little love....unlike my original Mk1 Fabia vRS, which still has a firm place in my heart.

 

anyhow, now the proud, and happy, owner of a low miles 2016/66 Toyota Prius Business Edition+. Delightful motor car. Fit and interior finish is way beyond the Fabia and it has the balance of the origial factory 5year/100k miles warranty left, i.e. Almost 3 years and 83k miles.  More kit than I'll learn about in quite a while, in fact a level of standard kit that I doubt you can replicate on even an Octavia, never mind a Fabia.  LED headlights anyone? Road sign recognition? Intelligent Climate Control that only feeds those seat areas that are occupied? HUD for speed, economy and roadsigns? And so much more. Gearbox is a very advanced CVT unit which seems to go to some sort of lock-up when prodded. Utterly seamless in all conditions, and I trust far more than the DSG. Irrational? Quite possibly.

 

It really is a joy to drive and, despite being a Hybrid, it does go when asked. In fact, I don't think the figures do it justice, (the Fabia was much the same).  This Prius is the Mk4 series and completely re-engineered from the previous versions. Zero VED, ULEZ compliant and no dearer to service than the Fabia.  Economy on a mostly rural run to-day was a tad over 65mpg, including some spirited, but safe, back- roading. So that's me.....gone for an 'old man's car'....but do drive one before you criticise it. Oh, and dealer service? Absolutely first class; everything was made so simple. And the coffee and pastries are brilliant. Maybe Lexus next time. 

 

Goodbye, and thanks for all the fish.

[vc-10]

I'm off away from the Fabia soon too, but I love my car. I've just ordered a Seat Ibiza Xcellence Lux with the 115PS 1.0 TSI. I really like the little triple, it's a characterful little thing, and I've gone for a manual so no DSG worries for me! The interior is nicer than a Fabia, although the base model Ibiza SE is very similar to my SE Fabia. The Xcellence Lux gets nicer door inserts, 'microsuede' (aka Alcantara) seats, padded 'leatherette' dashboard, and all the toys- adaptive cruise, dual zone climate, keyless entry, LED lights, digital dash, the works. The only thing it doesn't have is heated seats and some of the latest safety stuff (blind spots, lane assist), which doesn't bother me particularly, and a sunroof which is available as an option but isn't worth the extra £700 IMO. 

 

The real kicker for me was the price differential- add all the gizmos that the Ibiza has to a Fabia, Polo, Fiesta, whatever and you get a price that's significantly more. 

 

I had no need to get anything bigger, and while something like a Polo with all the bells and whistles would have been nice, the Ibiza is an excellent car that's a lot cheaper than the equivalent Polos. I tried a number of other small cars, and my favourite was the Polo, but the Ibiza was a very close second, and with pricing taken into account it was a clear winner for me. 

[teraja]

On 26/12/2018 at 20:38, alltorque said:

...anyhow, now the proud, and happy, owner of a low miles 2016/66 Toyota Prius Business Edition+. Delightful motor car. Fit and interior finish is way beyond the Fabia and it has the balance of the origial factory 5year/100k miles warranty left, i.e. Almost 3 years and 83k miles.  More kit than I'll learn about in quite a while, in fact a level of standard kit that I doubt you can replicate on even an Octavia, never mind a Fabia.  LED headlights anyone? Road sign recognition? Intelligent Climate Control that only feeds those seat areas that are occupied? HUD for speed, economy and roadsigns? And so much more...

The Prius is a nice car but at least here in Finland it's twice the price of a Fabia... You'd expect to get some better interior and kit with that price difference

 

I actually had an Auris Hybrid for a month last winter and while it was an ok car to drive (though worse than Fabia even on the motorways), it was horrible to drive on snowy or icy roads. The traction control was super aggressive and once cut the power totally in the middle of an intersection because of lots of sleet on the road - I almost got a car hit me as I couldn't get out of the way. The media system was also straight from some Japanese weird science fiction film. The car had rear view camera but no parking sensors, road sign recognition but no adaptive cruise control, only passive lane assist..weird spec. Hated the glossy cheap plastics interior... Loved the hybrid powertrain though and will consider a hybrid for my next car.

 

Anyways, good luck with your new car!

 

[alltorque]

Comparing an Auris, of unknown spec level with this Prius is like comparing apples and pears.  I do have adaptive cruise, front and rear sensors, with side-view sensors and rear camera, and the media system system is pretty intuitive, incl full European satnav, with a big screen. As for the interior, it is a nicer place to be than the Fabia from both a design and materials viewpoint. I agree that the Auris dash is a bit plasticky but the Prius is a different beast, in all respects. The Auris is built on the Mk 3 platform, the latest Prius, which mine is, is on the much-improved Mk 4 platform. The instruments are all digital, set in a binnacle over the centre of the dash. The foot-operated parking brake was a surprise, but at least it's not a horrible electrically operated thing. Can't comment on the traction control, but everything else works as advertised......but I haven't tried the self-parking system yet. Prius, at the spec level I was fortunate enough to find, is in a very different class to the Fabia. The latest Hybrid system really is brilliant.  As you'll gather, I much prefer my Prius over the Fabia. It feels like real quality. Will be interesting to see what Skoda have to offer when they launch their Hybrid and EV, (late next year, I'm told, but doubt it will be in the Fabia. The EV sounds like it will be at the Superb end of the spectrum and the Hybrid in one of the SUVs...according to my local dealer). The new Corolla could be interesting as a Fabia competitor, too.

 

By the way, I do love Finland. Used to spend time there on business. Folks seem to have their priorities much better balanced than in the UK.....work is kept in it's place and leisure is important. Met some crazy people, but in the nicest possible definition of crazy.

[Guest]

The Prius Mk4 is a very very good car. I looked at one prior to buying my Citroen. I had driven the earlier versions and to be frank, didn't like the way they went or the quality of the interiors. But the Mk4 seems to be a different cup of tea! 

 

Good luck alltorque with your new purchase. Please, when you are ready and if you have the time,  do a review of the car so we can all see how you are getting on with it. 

 

Happy New Year mate!

[alltorque]

One of the fearures is quirky. The car reads speed limit signs and replicates them on both the digital dash and the Head Up Display.  Stay at, or under, the limit and the sugn is white. Go one mph over and the sign turns red. Push your luck and grt up to about 5mph over the limit, and a very nice lady says "You are exceeding the speed limit"....or so I'm told. The volume of her voice over-rides anything you might have on the media system. Allegedly. Simple cure is to just click on the speed limiter as you reach your required speed.

 

Lk

 

 

Edited 2 January, 2019 by alltorque
Deletion of 2 items

[alltorque]

Here's a photo of the dashboard. HUD only visible to driver.

[Guest]

Yes that's quite a nice layout alltorque. In my Citroen C3 Flair I don't have the HUD, so all the dials are laid out directly in front of the driver. Like you, I do have the speed recognition system though and I find it very useful. I suspect you will grow to love it like I have. It rarely fails to recognise the correct speed limit and always displays the limit directly in front of you on the dash, flashing it to attract your attention whenever the limit changes. It's possible to link the speed recognition system to the cruise control and the car just mostly drives itself. Mine is an automatic too so it's nice to have little to do when on a long run. I've covered a pretty big mileage over the last near 5 months I've had the car (13,500 miles in 4.5 months) and little gadgets like that become very much appreciated when the day is long.

 

I think the VAG dsg is a system that is still not quite right. Although problems with it are still not massively widespread, many manufacturers are experiencing similar issues with their dsg/dct type of auto transmissions. This relates mostly to clutches slipping, and noisy operation. Therefore many manufacturers are now moving back to the latest generation torque converter automatic gearboxes. My Citroen has such as gearbox and it's faultless. No clutches to wear out or slip and it's designed and made by Japanese Aisin, the best gearbox manufacturer in the world.

 

CVT transmissions overall aren't great but are getting better. Avoid Nissan CVT like the plague as they do break down a lot, and Honda CVT has a fairly short life whatever vehicle you have it in. Not uncommon to need to replace the whole auto gearbox in a Honda at 75,000 miles if it's cvt. Don't ask the cost!! It'll break you and have you living on the streets or in your car if you can afford to have it repaired! Toyota seem to be fairly good with their cvt but longer term it's still a bit of an unknown since it was revamped. Being a Toyota though, I'm sure it will be fine.  

 

Looking forward to a review if you can do that sometime once you have had her a while. Lots of us on here would like more info about your car and what you think. Good luck and Happy New Year alltorque.

[teraja]

Sorry, it was my bad - I had forgot there's the new Prius and compared Auris to the previous Prius. The newest model hasn't sold that well here as the Auris Hybrid Wagon is almost 10000 euros cheaper (and for some reason we Finns love wagons). Besides Auris, C-HR, RAV4 and Yaris hybrids sell really well and I can easily see why.

 

I'm actually in the process of getting a leased car from my employer. The contract will be 36 months but I'm afraid I won't be able to wait until the new hybrid Skodas or VW's launch. Probably going with the MB C200 wagon with the 48V EQ Boost system.

 

You're right about Finnish people - most of us do think work is just one part of life and some won't even for example answer any work related calls while at home after the work day. One bad thing here is the prices of cars compared to income - the average yearly income of a Finn in 2017 was 29000 euro before taxes (leaving about 20000e after taxes) and for example the base model Prius is 34000 euro. Even the TSI DSG Fabia I'm driving was 21000e with only a few cheap extras.

[vc-10]

The Prius doesn't have a traditional CVT- it's barely even a 'gearbox'. The different ratios are generated by having ring gears and 2 electric motors, which operate at different speeds. The Wiki page explains it better than I can! 

[lawnmowerman]

I am sorely tempted to bin our Fabia DSG & our Yeti L&K 2.0 TDI (manual) in favour of a Toyota RAV 4 2.5L Hybrid just to get away from VAG products. The company  is tarnished beyond redemption and I had over 10 happy years in a VAG dealership way back when.

 

Sad days.

 

Bill 

 

BTW the white panel on the Prius gear selector looks so incongruous - maybe it's just me.

Edited 3 January, 2019 by lawnmowerman

[Guest]

13 hours ago, vc-10 said:

The Prius doesn't have a traditional CVT- it's barely even a 'gearbox'. The different ratios are generated by having ring gears and 2 electric motors, which operate at different speeds. The Wiki page explains it better than I can! 

 

Yes, that's a brilliant article vc-10. Explains it perfectly. 

 

Edit: urgent notification...VC you have the dreaded 666 posts...arrrh! You devil you! lol

Edited 4 January, 2019 by Estate Man

[Guest]

12 hours ago, lawnmowerman said:

I am sorely tempted to bin our Fabia DSG & our Yeti L&K 2.0 TDI (manual) in favour of a Toyota RAV 4 2.5L Hybrid just to get away from VAG products. The company  is tarnished beyond redemption and I had over 10 happy years in a VAG dealership way back when.

 

Sad days.

 

Bill 

 

BTW the white panel on the Prius gear selector looks so incongruous - maybe it's just me.

 

MInd you Bill, if you haven't had too much trouble or any trouble with it, then just drive it. It'll be fine. However, I do understand why you might want to leave the VAG fold. Most likely the same reason as me. 

 

Where I live we have had a considerable number of folks (neighbours) who bought Skoda cars over the last 11-12 years. In fact at one time their were 8 new Skoda's in my neighbourhood. I know most of these folks quite well. Most their cars have been Fabias. Some bought them because of the faultless performance that my first two Skoda Fabia Estates rendered. Funnily enough, when I got my two new Mk3 Fabia's and had loads of trouble with them, my neighbours all started unloading their cars in favour of other brands. Mostly these have been Citroen's. Since I've had my Citroen three other neighbours have bought the exact same model as mine, some have bought Peugeot. Again they have had no trouble with them, but as yet, they are only weeks old. It's interesting to note that only a couple of folks who have traded their Skoda cars for other brands ever had any problems with their Skodas and mostly from what they told me, they were mostly small issues. When I talked to them about it, asking why they had changed, they all said "we heard about the issues you had with your new Skodas so thought we ought to change in case we got the same problems"! I pointed out that they had all had different engines and gearboxes to the ones in mine so it was unlikely they would get any issues.

 

There is one guy at the end of my road who I don't actually know that has recently bought a 1.0TSI dsg hatch. I'll be watching that one carefully. 

[vc-10]

43 minutes ago, Estate Man said:

Edit: urgent notification...VC you have the dreaded 666 posts...arrrh! You devil you! lol

 

Fixed hahaha

[lawnmowerman]

10 hours ago, Estate Man said:

 

MInd you Bill, if you haven't had too much trouble or any trouble with it, then just drive it. It'll be fine. However, I do understand why you might want to leave the VAG fold. Most likely the same reason as me. 

 

Where I live we have had a considerable number of folks (neighbours) who bought Skoda cars over the last 11-12 years. In fact at one time their were 8 new Skoda's in my neighbourhood. I know most of these folks quite well. Most their cars have been Fabias. Some bought them because of the faultless performance that my first two Skoda Fabia Estates rendered. Funnily enough, when I got my two new Mk3 Fabia's and had loads of trouble with them, my neighbours all started unloading their cars in favour of other brands. Mostly these have been Citroen's. Since I've had my Citroen three other neighbours have bought the exact same model as mine, some have bought Peugeot. Again they have had no trouble with them, but as yet, they are only weeks old. It's interesting to note that only a couple of folks who have traded their Skoda cars for other brands ever had any problems with their Skodas and mostly from what they told me, they were mostly small issues. When I talked to them about it, asking why they had changed, they all said "we heard about the issues you had with your new Skodas so thought we ought to change in case we got the same problems"! I pointed out that they had all had different engines and gearboxes to the ones in mine so it was unlikely they would get any issues.

 

There is one guy at the end of my road who I don't actually know that has recently bought a 1.0TSI dsg hatch. I'll be watching that one carefully. 

 

Yes - I know. It is quite irrational. But sometimes you just want to push back against these large corporations and say enough!

 

The report about a vehicle on this site having "misting" of the front shock absorbers (within guarantee) and refusing to change them under warranty is shocking. If the fluid is supposed to be in the shock absorber and now its outside then it has leaked - full stop.

 

God help anyone looking for goodwill outside warranty.

 

You get to a point and you just want to say the b*ggers are getting no more of my money.

 

Having said that, dealing with the Motor Trade again is depressing. I had 5 offers from Carwow. One offered £4,200 off a new Rav 4 and one offered nothing - why bother even making the "offer"?

 

Locally, a dealer has offered £1425 off but on the net I can get the same spec. with more than £5,500 off with a pre-reg car with 5 miles.

 

Still a hill of money at £28,495. We'll see.

 

Bill 

[Guest]

Yes, it's frustrating Bill. I found Carwow and other firms like them to be a bit misleading with the prices they quote. Local non Carwow dealers will often better those prices if given a chance. If it's convenient, paying cash is the only way to get a 'proper' very good discount. We saved another £1000 by doing so over and above doing 0% pcp or credit sales. With our business cars we also pay cash and have done so over the last 20 years. It can be advantageous from many angles to do so depending on your business model.  And, you get a rock bottom price. But that doesn't suit everyone and is often not convenient. 

 

I do like the RAV4. If that is what you are going for then you'll have some fun in it. Good luck in your search. Oh...and don't forget about the Honda CRV. There are some good deals on the current model as it's going to be superceded later this year. My neighbour the other side of me had just bought a gorgeous white one with all the bells and whistles. Cost is much less than the RAV4. Might be worth a look if you are not totally stuck in the Toyota.

[alltorque]

On 4 January 2019 at 00:02, lawnmowerman said:

I am sorely tempted to bin our Fabia DSG & our Yeti L&K 2.0 TDI (manual) in favour of a Toyota RAV 4 2.5L Hybrid just to get away from VAG products. The company  is tarnished beyond redemption and I had over 10 happy years in a VAG dealership way back when.

 

Sad days.

 

Bill 

 

BTW the white panel on the Prius gear selector looks so incongruous - maybe it's just me.

I know precisely what you mean about getting away from VAG products....not particularly rational....but I was always kinda waiting for the DSG 'box to throw a hissy and to be told it wasn't a warranty job.  SWMBO purchased a Toyota Yaris Hybrid in 2017 and it's a revelation compared to the Citigo she was looking at. That really got me thinking and a good drive in the Prius, plus a dealer whose predominant answer to questions was "Yes", and who didn't nitpick about my Fabia 'only having 4.0mm of tread on the tyres', and deducting money from the already-low trade-in price.....that was Skoda.....plus offering £900 more for my Fabia than Skoda did, and discount the Prius and throw in some bits and pieces, it really was a no-brainer and I don't regret the decision at all.

 

the White trim. Hmmm. Apparently a lucky colour in Japan, if that means anything. Was a point of discussion with the excellent sales guy. It can be replaced with Piano Black but a couple of weeks in I've grown to quite like it. Or, at least, not dislike it. It works well at night when a tiny LED in the overhead switch panel illuminates the 'phone charger panel and 'gear' selector.....itself just a  switch. Another little feature is that the climate control only feeds those areas where there is a bum on a seat. Life has become a voyage of discovery, all over again.  Economy? Only have the onboard numbers at present, as I've not refueled yet, but a spirited  drive back from Sheffield produced 68.4mpg and that wasn't driving like my Aunty Nelly. More anon.

[alltorque]

As promised, photos of the the Prius....Red 6 in reference to our local aerobatic display team.  It's a 66 reg and a bit pointy.

[mark_irl]

On 04/01/2019 at 11:36, Estate Man said:

 

MInd you Bill, if you haven't had too much trouble or any trouble with it, then just drive it. It'll be fine. However, I do understand why you might want to leave the VAG fold. Most likely the same reason as me. 

 

Where I live we have had a considerable number of folks (neighbours) who bought Skoda cars over the last 11-12 years. In fact at one time their were 8 new Skoda's in my neighbourhood. I know most of these folks quite well. Most their cars have been Fabias. Some bought them because of the faultless performance that my first two Skoda Fabia Estates rendered. Funnily enough, when I got my two new Mk3 Fabia's and had loads of trouble with them, my neighbours all started unloading their cars in favour of other brands. Mostly these have been Citroen's. Since I've had my Citroen three other neighbours have bought the exact same model as mine, some have bought Peugeot. Again they have had no trouble with them, but as yet, they are only weeks old. It's interesting to note that only a couple of folks who have traded their Skoda cars for other brands ever had any problems with their Skodas and mostly from what they told me, they were mostly small issues. When I talked to them about it, asking why they had changed, they all said "we heard about the issues you had with your new Skodas so thought we ought to change in case we got the same problems"! I pointed out that they had all had different engines and gearboxes to the ones in mine so it was unlikely they would get any issues.

 

There is one guy at the end of my road who I don't actually know that has recently bought a 1.0TSI dsg hatch. I'll be watching that one carefully. 

 

It's mad to see how much has changed for you in a year. I was just reading through some of the latest posts and saw this one where only a year ago you recommended buying a Skoda and a DSG one at that and then now reading the above!

[Guest]

Hi mark, yes indeed. Things changed quite rapidly I'm afraid. Things for me and my Skodas went from bad to worse, much worse. I haven't actually posted about just how bad it got. But trust me, it was bad! Up until the posts you refer to, things were not too bad at all. My engine problems had caused me to reject my first car, but the gearbox wasn't too bad. Bit noisy but otherwise ok. I took delivery of my new 2017 Skoda Fabia 1.2TSI DSG just about 5 weeks later, and it was a complete disaster. That car was the son of the devil. Loads of problems, and of course the DSG gearbox was made by the devil himself. Just my luck. Clutch and noise issues. 

 

However, I would say that my experience with two consecutive brand new Fabia's is not typical. The gearbox issues are still not widespread in spite of what you might read on here, elsewhere  and on the VW forum, and what Skoffski says. In the main dsg works quite well and most don't get issues. But, clutches do seem to wear out much quicker than manual gearbox clutches so expect more expense over time.  With my tech hat on, I've dissected a couple of dsg boxes recently, blueprinting them, and have come to some conclusions about it's issues. These are that VW who build the boxes have economised on some manufacturing processes, probably stretching tooling beyond sensible boundaries. Fits and limits between the two boxes I blueprinted were remarkably different, and this causes software issues, which seem to be a big part of the problem. Software doesn't seem to be able to cope with the wider fits and limits coming out of the factory particularly over a wide range of temperatures. This means the mechatronic units can't apply the correct pressure to clutches. It explains why generation 2 clutches needed the mechatronics unit to be shimmed. I could, but won't go further than that here, but Skoda knows what the problems are but are powerless to actually apply proper fixes. They have to take instruction from VW. 

Edited 5 January, 2019 by Estate Man

[alltorque]

Just now, mark_irl said:

 

It's mad to see how much has changed for you in a year. I was just reading through some of the latest posts and saw this one where only a year ago you recommended buying a Skoda and a DSG one at that and then now reading the above!

Can't argue with that comment. Was comintowards end of PCP and realised that I didn't actually want to keep the car. DSG had never had more than the odd 'moment' when revs rose and not much happened but was told they all do sometimes. Started seriously looking at a high-spec Fabia Estate but the thought of going to 3-cylinders and the cost of an Estate to my spec rather shook me. Just didn't, and don't,  think they are good value any more. Had always promised to talk to Toyota since SWMBO bought hers and it just  took off from there....compounded by a real difference in deals, and attitude, between Skoda dealer and Toyota. 

 

Can't claim total rationality here but that's car buying and the Prius really is a revelation. I'd always dismissed them as old mens' cars, but the current, Mk 4, version has changed that and I have a 2 year old, high-spec, high-tech gem, with 3 years remaining warranty, for less than the cost of a new Fabia to my spec.....which would still be missing some of the Prius standard stuff.......LED headlights; Prius standard, £960 extra on the Fabia. I just think Skoda have lost a few pages of the plot, which is a shame as I still think very fondly of my original Fabia vRS with that wonderful clattery TDi PD 130.

 

not sure if that explains what happened, but it about sums it up. 

[Guest]

Totally understand your thinking alltorque. You mention LED headlights on the Prius, well that was another of my pet hates concerning my MK3 Fabia's. Not the fact that it didn't have LED headlights but just the way the headlights always misted up in very wet weather or after washing. It would take days for this to dry out. Worst of this is Skoda won't cover it under warranty as many of us have discovered. Another poorly designed part of the car, and again not something my new Citroen suffers from.