My New Yeti - Ex-Mobility

[Ootohere]

'We'  / & VW Group do not know the life of the mineral oil used in DQ200's since 2012/13.

 

From 2009 they were using Synthetic Oil, then had to do a World Wide Recall excluding Europe.

They changed the Synthetic to Mineral, and did a software update on 2009-2013 DQ200's

 

Then from the factory from 2012/13 filled with Mineral Oil.

Messed that up and needed to do service campaign '34H5' on some due to Failures.  A Software Update. 

 

So from 2012-2019 they have use 'Mineral Oil' and it is still a Service Free', / No Schedule Oil Change, No guidelines on oil change sealed for life DSG.

 

There lies the issue.  now that 7 years have passed we will see how good that Mineral Oil is.

 

Fact, some DQ200's from 2014/15 are looking like the mineral oil is not doing well.

Some have issues.  

 

Vorsprung Durch Technik.    How long now before VW Group know if Sealed For Life is going to be good for 10 years with Mineral Oil....

[xman]

Do remember that DSG boxes have two sets (different types) of oil, the mechatronics has its own seperate hydraulic fluid with a filter (not changeable in the case of DQ200) and the main gearbox has its gearbox oil.

 

I wouldn't expect any need to change the mechatronics fluid just as I wouldn't expect to change power steering fluid. The gearbox oil is something that needs to be done on wet boxes due to potential wet clutch wear issues if not changed. On the DQ200, the dry clutches are external so no gearbox oil change is specified or necessary.

[Ootohere]

'We' do not expect to have to change either oil. 

 

The biggest car manufacturer in the World says, 'sealed for life'.  They are turning out thousands DQ200's world wide daily.

 

So all is good, follow the Manufacturers Guidelines,  no actions required.  Sadly only a 2 or 3 years manufacturers warranty, 

where when there was a 'World Wide Recall' some Countries were given 100,000 mile / 10 year warranties on the DSG that were recalled.

 

So time will tell. 

8 years since all DQ200's should have been using Mineral Oil now.  Maybe VW Group will stick with the 'Manufacturers Guidelines' and if they were wrong put their hands up and say, 

'We got that wrong again'. 

[Ootohere]

PS

Why are some Approved Repairers / Main Dealerships telling Customers they need the Oil Changed in their DQ200 DSG.  

Some are even doing that.

 

Many times in the Mk2 Fabia section i have advised members that were told that to ask the Service Desk staff to go get a Qualified & Trained Adult that knows their Ar5£ from their elbow. 

 

An easy check on this is this thread.

Look at the OP.   

The member was given advice by some Dealership employee with either the knowledge or not.

Someone booked the car in for an Action that was not required.

The Skoda Official Website was referred to and left the OP believing something because they read it, 

just like Full Time Dealership Employees read stuff and never question it until it is pointed out to them it misleads.

Edited 15 February, 2019 by Skoffski

[xman]

2 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

PS

Why are some Approved Repairers / Main Dealerships telling Customers they need the Oil Changed in their DQ200 DSG.  

Some are even doing that.

 

Many times in the Mk2 Fabia section i have advised members that were told that to ask the Service Desk staff to go get a Qualified & Trained Adult that knows their Ar5£ from their elbow. 

 

I was told in Dec 2017, it is "now" necessary/compulsory every three years to change DSG oil regardless of mileage for the DQ200 on a Superb by local dealer service dept. I didn't believe them despite their insistence but didn't buy the DSG but went for manual version as I do not gamble or play the lottery.

 

Estateman posted interesting observation on DQ200 boxes he has worked on. Iirc he said there there were massive tolerance variations between boxes. This, I think, is why they are a lottery!

[Ootohere]

I know you were told.

& if you remember i asked who told you and why, and told you they were wrong.  (paraphrasing)

I remember the exact thread.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/442553-which-dsg

 

Edited 15 February, 2019 by Skoffski

[spacenase]

1 hour ago, Skoffski said:

PS

Why are some Approved Repairers / Main Dealerships telling Customers they need the Oil Changed in their DQ200 DSG.  

Some are even doing that.

 

Many times in the Mk2 Fabia section i have advised members that were told that to ask the Service Desk staff to go get a Qualified & Trained Adult that knows their Ar5£ from their elbow. 

 

An easy check on this is this thread.

Look at the OP.   

The member was given advice by some Dealership employee with either the knowledge or not.

Someone booked the car in for an Action that was not required.

The Skoda Official Website was referred to and left the OP believing something because they read it, 

just like Full Time Dealership Employees read stuff and never question it until it is pointed out to them it misleads.

 

Actually, the reason I booked it in for the fluid change is because I don't believe in sealed for life gearboxes. Even if the service department had said that Skoda say it is not necessary but they can do it for me, I would still have got it done. I am aware that there is some apparently contradictory information out there, but if the change is carried out properly it is not going to cause a gearbox problem, whereas dirty or ineffective oil will. They said they could not do it, so I presume they never changed any from synthetic to mineral when that work was being carried out. To be honest, my main frustration with them was that they didn't have the courtesy to call me and let me know before I turned up.

 

There are recommended change intervals for manual gearbox oil (mostly around 70k), coolant, brake fluid, clutch fluid, engine oil, differential oil, so saying that these gearboxes don't need a fluid change ever makes no sense. Even power steering fluid is accessible so the owner can check if it is getting dirty and can arrange for it to be changed. I do accept that it may not need changing yet on my car, but I don't accept that it is safe to say it is sealed for life.

 

On the plus side, I have Smartlink activated now at a cost of £136 all-in.

 

 

[Ootohere]

?

Why have you not had it done then, you had the booking?

You posted today and revived the thread.  "they can not change the fluid".  was what you posted today.

 

Just have a competent Technician do it.

 

You said 'it was a recommendation & Motability chose not to get it done.'    Where did you get that story from?

Reason not done it is not a Manufacturers Recommendation.

 

I told you that was because there is no Service Guidelines for servicing a DQ200 dsg. 

 

   Preventative Servicing is well understood.  Having something done by people without a clue can be dodgy.  see todays Timing Chain post in the Fabia Mk2 section.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/462935-cracked-cylinder-engine-write-off

 

Edited 15 February, 2019 by Skoffski

[xman]

8 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

 

   Preventative Servicing is well understood.  Having something done by people without a clue can be dodgy.  see todays Timing Chain post in the Fabia Mk2 section.

 

I agree with Ski, there is plenty of scope to introduce contamination in the Mechatronics unit, especially if its awkward to do, gearbox and surroundings are dirty/muddy, and the guy doing it has little experience of doing it. Never mind that it was never designed to be serviced. We are talking micron level filtration required for reliable operation of those electrohydraulic actuators.

[spacenase]

42 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

?

Why have you not had it done then, you had the booking?

You posted today and revived the thread.  "they can not change the fluid".  was what you posted today.

 

Just have a competent Technician do it.

 

I have not had it done because the dealer I had the booking with and took it to today said they could not do it. That's why I said that in my post earlier. Obviously, I have not had time to look into whether anyone else could do it yet.

 

43 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

You said 'it was a recommendation & Motability chose not to get it done.'    Where did you get that story from?

Reason not done it is not a Manufacturers Recommendation.

 

I told you that was because there is no Service Guidelines for servicing a DQ200 dsg. 

 

The dealer that did the servicing for Motability told me that. As I said there seems to be differing views on what does or does not need to be done. With respect, how do I know what you are saying is any more or less valid than the other information I have found?

 

46 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

   Preventative Servicing is well understood.  Having something done by people without a clue can be dodgy.  see todays Timing Chain post in the Fabia Mk2 section.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/462935-cracked-cylinder-engine-write-off

 

The consequences of having work done by people who do not have a clue is also well known and I have had plenty of (expensive) experience with this in the past. This is why I went to my local Skoda dealer, because if anyone should know how to do it, it should be them. And yes I am fully aware that dealer service staff only know what the manufacturer teaches them, but if changing the fluid is standard process (as I maintain it should be), then they will have been taught it and have a process to follow for it.

 

I'll have a think about whether to progress this or leave it for now.

 

 

[Ootohere]

I know why the Dealership Employees refrained from doing the job.

You would think they would want your money.

 

Issue is them taking responsibility, and guaranteeing the work and any issues arising.

But if they or someone is checking with Skoda / VW they surely will be happy and do the work you want doing.

 

PS

If anyone should know it should be a Skoda Main Dealership Master Tech.

?

Was the Servicing not done at a Skoda Main Dealers when Motability owned the car.  You were left unsure by what they told you.

Again today you are left unsure.

You read the Skoda website and was left unsure.

 

I can assure you i am sure about DQ200 DSG's and the history and servicing and requirements. 

Obviously not by getting that knowledge from some Desk jockey or Clerical person with a NVQ in keyboard skills or Administration or sales person working at a Dealership or the Importers.

Edited 15 February, 2019 by Skoffski

[xman]

Again ski is correct. DQ200 has a terrible reliability record, and dealers don't want to foot an highly likely bill as they have to "guarantee" their work for 2 yrs unlimited mileage under their sales and marketing. Or get embroiled in a dispute.

 

DQ200 is one instance where "if it aint broken, don't fix it!”

[spacenase]

@Skoffski I suspected the same, it's easier for them to just say no. Motability had the servicing done at a main dealer in the North West.

 

@xman That may be true from the dealer's perspective, but I can't agree with that from an owner's perspective. For me, that's a way of ending up with a broken gearbox at 75,000 miles that would still be fine if some maintenance work had been carried out at 50,000 miles. Your comment earlier on the tolerance differences is interesting though. It could explain why a lot, but not all boxes are failing.

 

In this kind of situation, for me it is not just about the service requirements set out by the manufacturer, it's about what's best for the reliability and longevity of the car. There are plenty of examples of something not being a service requirement then later proving to be a common problem. The original issue with the synthetic oils in this gearbox is a prime example, and it's not just the VW Group that have this problem. For example, the Honest John website recommends an oil and filter change every 10,000 miles or each year, whatever the manufacturer says. To me, this makes sense because the oil is critical within an engine and an owner should be ensuring it is in the best condition it can be for the sake of the engine it lubricates. Consequently I have my older car serviced every year with the MOT however many miles it has done (usually much less than 10k). So it's the same with this gearbox, if other automatic boxes and manual boxes require fluid changes, so must this one whatever Skoda or VW say officially. Having said that, if there are a lot of cars with this gearbox up for sale over 5 years old with 150k miles or more on them that have their original gearbox with it's original fluid, then I'll freely admit I am wrong.

 

My opinions on this come from over 30 years experience of owning very old, old, new, good, very good, surprisingly good, bad, very bad and surprisingly bad cars. Whatever surrounds them, the mechanics of a car are largely unchanged and really, so are the genuine maintenance requirements of them. Things need checking regularly to look for potential problems before they become real, fluids need changing and the water pump needs changing with the timing belt. Until electric cars, or some variant of them, take over the world, I can't see this changing. I would trust the manufacturers recommendations on servicing if I thought they were solely based on the technical requirements of the car, but it's been shown time and time again that some recommendations are based on marketing, some are based on cost and some seem to based on nothing more than trying to hide known potential problems. To ignore this dooms us to repeat the same mistakes again and again.

 

Okay, I'm done on this one. I've taken a risk on buying a car with a gearbox with a known problem. There is clearly not enough information around on the likelihood of my particular gearbox failing, only that it's higher than you'd expect it to be. There's also no specific information on the best course of action to help prevent it failing, if there even is any action you can take. It's going to be a question of giving it time and see what happens. As they say, time will tell....

 

 

[Ootohere]

Motability cars are serviced to Manufacturers Guidelines and when they get away with it on Variable Servicing, so first Service @ 2 years and no Service before hand back at 3 years unless the car will have maybe done 36,000 miles or more.

Just the MOT carries out and any Warranty work.

 

Motability allow vehicles with adaptions to be on 4 or 5 year leases

or cars that have covered 15,000 miles or less in 3 years to carry on being leased beyond 3 years before they go to auction.

 

Motability rely on Manufacturers Warranties to have cars covered and if the Manufacturers Guidelines, Recommendations or Schedule does not include the likes 

of a Geabox Oil Change, Brake Fluid, Haldex etc in 3 years it does not get done.  Even 4 and 5 year old cars they own might not get these 'Scheduled' service items done.

Edited 15 February, 2019 by Skoffski