Good evening gentlemen

Since I bought my Fabia I have read a lot about oil consumption problems on the forums, and I think my car might set a new oil usage high score.

Measuring oil consumption during a 1200km (745 miles) drive the result was a usage of 1 litre oil per 250 km. That's 1 litre per 155 miles. Or 1 imperial gallon per 700 miles. Or 1 US gallon per 465 miles.

Uah, I wasn't at all finished with my post. Can I edit it or delete it?

 

Edit 2: Seems like my replies are merged. Stay tuned, more information and questions will follow!

This car of mine has a 1.2 litre AZQ engine. I'm trying to find why my car uses so much oil.

(Edit: First registered in 2004. Driven 170.000 km (105.000 miles))

 

Any help on finding the cause is very much appreciated. Here follows what I've done and investigated so far:

 

* There are no known oil leakage (No spill on the asphalt where it's parked).

* No blue smoke, no white smoke.

* Compression test gave same output on all cylinders (16 Bar I think).

* Water reservoir has the right color (no oil in there).

* The oil on the dipstick seems to be okay.

* My throttle body is full of sludge behind the flap.

* My PCV valve has oil in it, but is not full of sludge. It seems like the diaphragm is still working.

* Oil is dripping in the pipe leading to the PCV valve (on the engine top).

* The air filter (changed a year ago) is still as good as new.

* All pipes and hoses from the big air filter cover thing seems to be allright without sludge.

 

I don't know anything about service routines before I bought it last year. I have changed oil and filter once.

As far as I know the problem can be one of the following:

* Piston rings or piston oil rings

* Valve seals (or valve stems?)

* Something PCV related

Anything else? I would think engine top leakage is ruled out by the good compression test.

 

Cleaning the crankcase breather hose is mentioned in a couple of other threads, but where is it? As mentioned, all hoses from my engine cover are okay.

 

Throttle body sludge:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/UKDg7EhJCcoK9hgdA

 

Oil seperator:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/s3DqoN5BJP5hi1BDA

 

PCV:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/UtPEGr1LPeb3dDQA8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WAFtk6mDYYF6QEE7A

 

Pipe on engine top where the PCV valve is mounted:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/i7Gv7rtYyJJLrfFG6

 

Overview:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/13HKHJ7VqYHrEys17

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9TDeU7EqRfLxXTNp8

 

Thoughts?

Edited 25 June, 20197 yr by kaffevrak

I think your oil separator is not draining the separated oil out of itself, so effectively doing nothing. I seem to remember there's a little flap valve at the bottom that should open under gravity if there's liquid oil on top of it. Maybe that's gummed up and stuck closed? 

Item 9 here: https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/fabia/fab/2004-225/1/103-103004/

 

Image of separator internals:

 

The breather hose shown above as "to inlet manifold" goes to a fitting on the right side of the inlet manifold, and from there through an internal pipe to an outlet somewhere just under the throttle body. I doubt that's blocked but you could easily check by disconnecting it from the PCV valve and blowing down it.

I agree, looking at the state of the oil separator photo you posted, it looks as if the oil has been neglected and run for far too long and been cooked and coked up the separator which as wino points out has a drain back valve.

Thank you Sirs. I ordered a new oil separator right away since it was fairly cheap. I'll take a good blow down the breather hose too   I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

If anyone got any other thoughts on this don't be shy to share them!

Edited 25 June, 20197 yr by kaffevrak

Look at the spark plugs to see if the valve stem seals have failed, you can't lose that much oil without burning it.

16 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

Look at the spark plugs to see if the valve stem seals have failed, you can't lose that much oil without burning it.

But that oil on plugs could equally have also been drawn from the PCV with a blocked oil separator. Valve stem leaks usually gives blue smoke puff on the overrun followed by acceleration phase. Also HTP valve stem wear usually leads to oval valve seats and loss of compression iirc (some old posts many years ago when I had a Mk1 AZQ.)

 

If the oil separator is in the state I suspect, then the rest of the engine is likely to be in a very poor coked up way. 

You might try aggressive flushing/cleaning products(Forte?), but that could be very risky. Some internal examination recommended.

16 minutes ago, xman said:

But that oil on plugs could equally have also been drawn from the PCV with a blocked oil separator. Valve stem leaks usually gives blue smoke puff on the overrun followed by acceleration phase. Also HTP valve stem wear usually leads to oval valve seats and loss of compression iirc (some old posts many years ago when I had a Mk1 AZQ.)

 

 

Sure, I'm not saying it's not piston blowby, but the engine HAS to be burning the oil somehow so it must smoke like a chimney.

Personally if it were mine, I would waste my time, I'd just scrap it, buy another car, or at least get another engine.

 

Chances of fixing it without major stripdown/expense is slim.

 

If down to oil neglect, not changed for years, Piston rings gummed up, oil galleries coked, timing chain worn out, camshafts worn, lots of wear....

 

Good luck, but don't spend too much time and money on what may be a lost cause....

Well, I'd agree that to lose oil that fast you must be burning it or leaving a trail.

I appreciate all help and comments so far. Today I did some new tests. Thoughts and ideas are still very welcome  

 

Test results from today:

 

* Vacuum in oil dipstick hole

* Vacuum in oil filler hole

* Vacuum into PCV valve when the valve is dismounted from the engine top

All of the above was tested with engine running on idle.

 

Also, I have to retract my earlier "no smoke" statement. After fixing a leak in the exhaust system it became clear that the exhaust is full of white smoke.

White smoke also comes from the pipe that goes between the oil separator and the PCV valve, when the PCV valve is removed.

 

When I start the engine, remove the oil filler cap, and then put the oil filler cap back in, the engine shuts down.

When I start the engine and remove the PCV valve from the engine top, the engine goes crazy.

 

Exhaust smoke (video):

https://photos.app.goo.gl/upZwMUppTHr3VsSa6

 

Signs of oil(?) on the ground behind exhaust outlet:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/81HVgV5pYxUBTLCs5

 

Engine stops when placing the oil filler cap (video):

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GXnp5xwhzGv8UZn67

 

Engine running while removing PCV valve (video):

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sYYT14w2eC55kzGX8

 

White smoke from the PCV hole (video):

https://photos.app.goo.gl/XasEyZm29XVWEBLTA

 

The engine runs on idle on all of the video clips.

 

 

(Bonus video: how to kill an exhaust pipe: https://photos.app.goo.gl/EYyMitRxPaqiXEC1A)

I haven't watched any of the vids yet, but other than the smoke, your test results seem to describe 'normal behaviour', I think.

When does your replacement oil separator arrive?

 

 

 

@kaffevrak - Well, your videos definitely show oil smoke, and a lot of it given that it's white rather than blue.

I am following this post with interest I have a fabia 2009 estate 1.2 from new, never used any oil changed it regularly with castrol edge vw spec , was busy last year with a big house project neglected to check the oil. 60k ran low and hot on a long run for no real reason wasnt checked for a month. jumped the cam bent two valves. Got head reworked by a good local motor engineer shop. Fitted a new headset, plugs cam chain kit. oil chain kit. Cleaned out the injector and inlet assembly. All was well ran local took it on a long run guzzled oil ran hot,  top up with fully synthetic 5 40 so not the £40 4l vw rich mans snake oil, This engine is truly the worst to fill with engine oil of any car or bike I have ever owned a table spoon a minute, the dip stick or as it might better be named the unquantified volume oil on the end of the stick oli presence detector. This has killed me as I have multiple sclerosis so climbing up over and around cars is very energy intensive and we have bugger all money to replace it. I have stripped the the oil control traps on the crankcase breather system and cleaned all the crud off them with wd40 and carb cleaner. I ran out of energy before I physically cleaned the injectors with injector cleaner but I have ran several tanks through with wynns at double strength, I would like to change the never ever changed fuel filter. The oil consumption has slowed. There are drops of oil on the drive but I reckon that's more to do with ease of overfilling the tiny oil filling capacity  of the neck and oil travels and flicks in spots. 

I am thinking of giving up selling the rather nice car as local runabout but with a always check the oil proviso cheap.  The thing does occasionally misfire on start up , I suspect injectors need cleaning of the rail and new fuel filter. I would replace oil separator and breather but feel I may be wasting my time and effort. I was thinking of buying a low mileage fabia estate diesel similar year as these seem to have a far better engine noone sings praises of the VW htp 1.2 cam chain engine it appears fragile. Buying a used engine seem like russian roulette as the are always low mileage??? bare blocks full of dirt and bent sumps and the sellers don't care with a worthless warranty. No one appears to recon them with meaningful warranty.  I would love to know if the separator is the culprit for early engine death, I have a mechanic friend who has done many of these on warranty his opinion later and add to this post.

 

The old oil separator is now replaced with the new one

Right after the separator change the car smoked worse than ever. Especially going slightly downhill at low speed in second gear for a little while, and then pushing the throttle.

It seems (might be bias though) that the car smokes a little less now, after a couple of test runs driving the same route.

I have not done any long drive oil measuring yet with the new separator in place.

 

I checked the spark plugs as advised by @sepulchrave, see photos

Also, I removed the PCV valve and tried to blow through the "to intake manifold" pipe according to @Wino's picture and desciption. I could blow through, and could feel the air coming out of the throttle body.

 

I did a VCDS diagnosis on the car also. Engine section result:

Quote

Address 01: Engine        Labels: 03E-906-033-AZQ.lbl
   Part No: 03E 906 033 A
   Component: 1,2l/4V SIMOS3  00HS5329  
   Coding: 00071
   Shop #: WSC 13765  
   VCID: 1E32E6E49AB7D4B698-515A
   TMBHY26Y854204730     SKZ7Z0D2631772

3 Faults Found:
16556 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 
            P0172 - 35-00 - System Too Rich
16514 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1 
            P0130 - 35-10 - Malfunction in Circuit - Intermittent
16685 - Cylinder 1 
            P0301 - 35-10 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

Any thoughts on the fault codes?

 

A mechanic is soon visiting and staying for a couple of days, so I'll force him  to take a look at the car.

 

Oil separator hole without separator:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4N4ueuYbz2fSuuBK8

 

Spark plug left cylinder (looking at the car from front. Near the oil filler hole):

https://photos.app.goo.gl/mU1Jkwi9ArGybyV1A

 

Spark plug middle cylinder:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fvNtA4ukvLoZt56W9

 

Spark plug right cylinder:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ftg3V8nYbWrVZJQs7

Edited 8 July, 20196 yr by kaffevrak

You put new spark plugs in, right?

The lambda sensor fault is probably the result of the smoke from oil burning contaminating the sensor. 

Fuel trim fault may just be a consequence of the lambda fault.

Misfire could be just the condition of the plugs.

 

 

@Wino new spark plugs are ordered, but not replaced yet  Thanks for interpreting the fault codes.