I haven't found answers to this specific question and sorry if this should go in one of the other DSG threads. But, I'm curious as to why Skoda do not offer their more powerful engines with a manual gearbox. 

 

My previous two Octavia Scouts had manual gearboxes and I could handle the lower power engines (140 and 150bhp) in a car the size of the Octavia. But in the Kodiaq it would be really nice to be able to get the 190bhp diesel engine with a manual transmission. When I look into the DSG gearbox it seems to me that there are definitely people (like me) who see advantages in the manual box... So why do Skoda only provide the more powerful engines with DSG?

 

I'm enjoying my Kodiaq, but after a couple of weeks of driving the DSG I'm definitely still missing having the control I had with a manual transmission. I also have the feeling that fuel efficiency, towing ability and off road ability would be better with the manual than with the DSG version. 

 

Anyone have any ideas?

 

Regards

Dave. 

 

 

Simple really,

They have not managed to manipulate the engines emissions with manuals for the WLTP & RDE2.

They are now getting out the 1.5 TSI & 1.0 TSI with DSG and light hybrid and the non green 1.4TSI but manipulating the testing by having them as Plug in Hybrids.

Punt some Citigo iV's and they get the companies Average Emissions down, saves them paying the penalties.

 

For Australia they can do what ever they think will sell and no WLTP concerns.

Edited 26 February, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

They could make one if they wanted to. For some reason Skoda don’t seem to want to produce many model variants.  IMO its versioning of the Kodiaq range leaves a lot to be desired.

 

For example, in the UK only the 1.5 TSI and TDI 150 engines are available in FWD when in reality very few people need 4x4.  This adds weight/friction so slows the car and hits fuel economy by 4-5mpg.  And only the (now entry level) SE spec is available with 5 seats.  Having to have 7 seats gives you a smaller boot and adds 43kg and £1,000 to the cost. Considering the seats are only suitable for small children this versioning really is a bit daft as it must alienate a sizeable market.

My perfect model would have been a 5-seat 2.0 TSI Sportline DSG FWD as I actually do need the extra boot space of the 5 seater but such a model version doesn’t exist.  Instead I went for the TDI 150 SE DSG FWD as it was the most powerful 5 seat version available to me.

 

I imagine it’s down to the fact that fewer variants must simplify the production line.

 

Edited 26 February, 20206 yr by Winston_Wolf

I think Skoda said about 85%+ of Kodiaq are DSG, therefore probably not worth trouble of creating (and testing) another variant.

 

If they lose a few customers, I suspect they are not worried.   Even the Op said he wanted a manual, but rather than go to another brand opted to get the DSG so probably won't loose very many in reality

 

 

11 minutes ago, SurreyJohn said:

I think Skoda said about 85%+ of Kodiaq are DSG, therefore probably not worth trouble of creating (and testing) another variant.

 

If they lose a few customers, I suspect they are not worried.   Even the Op said he wanted a manual, but rather than go to another brand opted to get the DSG so probably won't loose very many in reality

 

 

To say that 85% are DSG is probably somewhat biased as it's not free choice. There could be more demand for the manual but since in some countries you can only get certain models as a manual it kind of forces peoples hand to get a DSG. By the same token the number of Fabias with manual is a lot higher, but it's much easier to buy a manual Fabia.

 

I don't think emissions can really be the issue as arguably the CO2 output should be less from a manual if driven smoothly. It may of course be extra work to prove this that Skoda doesn't want to do. But somehow that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. 

 

I'll be driving long distances, spending reasonably amounts of time in snow and off-road in my Kodiak and very little city driving so having the manual option would have been great.

 

I had already resigned myself to this car being DSG when I bought my last Octavia as I already had a lot of trouble finding a manual Octavia back then. I'm just curious as to why this is the case. 

Of course what's being made doesn't reflect demand if there isn't a choice  which is the OP's issue. 

 

That said, those numbers are probably about right. Looking at number of 1.4 TSI engined Kodiaqs for sale on Autotrader (an engine in which all buyers had a free choice between DSG and manual), 81% of them are DSG models.

1 minute ago, Winston_Wolf said:

Of course what's being made doesn't reflect demand if there isn't a choice  which is the OP's issue. 

 

That said, those numbers are probably about right. Looking at number of 1.4 TSI engined Kodiaqs for sale on Autotrader (an engine in which all buyers had a free choice between DSG and manual), 81% of them are DSG models.

Is it possible that the 1.4TSI model is being used a bit more as a town car and would be better in DSG anyway if you are spending time in traffic? 

I'd imagine people who will tow trailers, spend time off road and or do a lot longer distance motorway driving would be wanting one of the beefier/torquier engines? Or was this a thought for others when buying their Kodiaqs?

When I was looking at buying a Kodiaq in 2018, I really fancied the 2.0 TSI but this only came with DSG.

Having only driven manual gearbox cars for over 40 years I was a bit daunted, but arranged a test drive, and promptly placed an order on return.

Now 2 years later, I don’t think I would ever go back to having a manual car ever again, it’s just so relaxing not having to stir a gear stick around and operate a clutch pedal. I’ve also never came across any situation that a manual gearbox would be an advantage over a DSG.

As the DSG is essentially an automated manual gearbox, with coasting, I think you’d have you would have to try really hard to get better fuel efficiency from a manual.

Edited 26 February, 20206 yr by Kenny R

The Emission results from the WLTP / RDE2 has little to do with how someone can drive a manual, it is how the test regime can be driven.

A good driver might well drive economically under the same conditions as someone in a DSG.

 

For the WLTP the DSG's have Coasting Function, Stop / Start but VW Group when cheating the old testing of 2.5 & 3.0l TDI DSG they needed a Defeat Device for the gearbox.

 

Now they have the Hybrids and light hybrid results to use which can use the kidology of the ICE not running through most of the WLTP.

Last year VW were on about their new more fuel efficient manual gearboxes, the MQ281.

?

Can anyone say which vehicles actually got these fitted, or was it another VW cunning stunt that needed a bit more R&D, and versions for use with Haldex?

 

EDIT.

FWD, limited power 250 lb ft, & suits hybrids.  Driving off under electric motor.

https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/2019/07/MQ281.html

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/under-skin-why-volkswagen-bringing-back-manual-gearboxes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 26 February, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

3 hours ago, DaveOR said:

I don't think emissions can really be the issue as arguably the CO2 output should be less from a manual if driven smoothly.

Why? The DSG gearbox has an extra ratio compared to the manual, so can pick a more efficient ratio more of the time. 
 

Most other manufacturers also don’t sell large SUVs with a manual gearbox, simply because so few people buy them. 

Manual?!

23 minutes ago, weldion said:

Manual?!

Help us out, here.  What are you saying?

2 hours ago, MrTrilby said:

Why? The DSG gearbox has an extra ratio compared to the manual, so can pick a more efficient ratio more of the time. 
 

Most other manufacturers also don’t sell large SUVs with a manual gearbox, simply because so few people buy them. 

It's common knowledge that there is a few mpg or l/100km difference in favour of manual gear boxes. I've also driven both manual and dsg Octavia Scouts and got better fuel consumption in real life than with the DSG though. I am wondering if there is a learning curve in learning how to drive the DSG more efficiently. But the difference between the consumption in my Octavia and my DSG Kodiaq is way more than I would have expected taking into account the size and weight difference. 

 

That is possibly because most SUV's never leave the city... but ultimately there are also people out there who will be using them for a bit more than the school run. 

Indeed there is a way to drive them.

Get moving and keep moving and stay off the brakes and use the gear shifter to slow down and 'D' for upshifts.

Coasting function works very well.

 

No idea where it is that most SUV's are supposed to not leave the city as many people have SUV's and never go to cities or live near them.

As it is a SUV automatic / DSG is so easy to drive in a city and there is no need for them to use more fuel than a manual.

 

PS,

the 190ps engines are just not that fuel efficient compared to a 150 ps.

Edited 26 February, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

Why Skoda do not offer their more powerful engines with a manual gearbox?    Simple really - because few people want manuals in this class of car.

 

Naturally all the other VW Group cars are the same, you can only buy DSG. I'm not quite sure what constitutes a rival to the Karoq but at a guess:

 

Volvo XC60? You can only buy those with Geartronic.

X-Trail? Petrol cars are only automatic.

Jag F-Pace? More powerful versions are auto only

Discovery Sport - only base engines have manual option.  ( who buys a manual LandRover? )

Kia Sorento - higher range cars are auto only

BMW X3 - auto only

Pug 5008  - more powerful engines are Auto only

Merc anything. Who buys a manual merc?

etc.

 

And looking to the future where everyone is falling over themselves to bring out some type of hybrid -  are there any manual hybrid cars on sale?

Whether we like it or not, manual transmissions are on the way out.

 

 

 

 

Edited 26 February, 20206 yr by Guest

7 minutes ago, Scot5 said:

Why Skoda do not offer their more powerful engines with a manual gearbox?    Simple really - because few people want manuals in this class of car.

 

Naturally all the other VW Group cars are the same, you can only buy DSG. I'm not quite sure what constitutes a rival to the Karoq but at a guess:

 

Volvo XC60? You can only buy those with Geartronic.

X-Trail? Petrol cars are only automatic.

Jag F-Pace? More powerful versions are auto only

Discovery Sport - only base engines have manual option.  ( who buys a manual LandRover? )

Kia Sorento - higher range cars are auto only

BMW X3 - auto only

Pug 5008  - more powerful engines are Auto only

Merc anything. Who buys a manual merc?

etc.

 

And looking to the future where everyone is falling over themselves to bring out some type of hybrid -  are there any manual hybrid cars on sale?

Whether we like it or not, manual transmissions are on the way out.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes they are.  That was part of the reason I went for a manual.  Soon we won't get the choice!

 

The other reasons were that I thought the clutch would last longer than a DSG (I intend to keep the car for a long time) and, more importantly, I went for a 1.5 Petrol and thought a manual box would give me more control if I needed a burst of power.  

 

Plus I like manuals

Just out of interest, do those who say they like manuals, also insist on :

 

no auto setting on lights

manual temperature control, no climatronic

manual switched wipers

manual radio tuner with no presets

manually winding (not electric) windows

manual starting crank handle (rather than electric start)

 

...... you get the idea, some people need to move on from 1950s

 

 

1 hour ago, SurreyJohn said:

Just out of interest, do those who say they like manuals, also insist on :

 

no auto setting on lights

manual temperature control, no climatronic

manual switched wipers

manual radio tuner with no presets

manually winding (not electric) windows

manual starting crank handle (rather than electric start)

 

...... you get the idea, some people need to move on from 1950s

 

 

Surely it's a preference rather than wanting to be stuck in the 50s. I personally can't stand the DSG or auto gearboxes. But saying that, last time I drove to Central France I drove my 35 year old 924 instead of my wifes modern diesel. 850 miles of pure mechanical, no driver aides fun. 

Edited 27 February, 20206 yr by caprixpack

2 hours ago, SurreyJohn said:

Just out of interest, do those who say they like manuals, also insist on :

 

no auto setting on lights

manual temperature control, no climatronic

manual switched wipers

manual radio tuner with no presets

manually winding (not electric) windows

manual starting crank handle (rather than electric start)

 

...... you get the idea, some people need to move on from 1950s

 

 

 

What a  bizarre and ill thought out comment. 

 

 

 

 

Aside from the crank handle I'd be totally fine with all of those.

But yeah, as above really.

10 hours ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

 

 

PS,

the 190ps engines are just not that fuel efficient compared to a 150 ps.

Maybe this plays a role also in the fuel efficiency thing. I'm trying to concentrate on driving efficiently as possible. I was regularly getting between about 51 and 56mpg out of my Octavia (and just driving without thinking about being economical) in normal use and driving as carefully as I can with the Kodiaq I'm getting 39mpg at the very best (economy mode, coasting, avoiding the brakes as much as possible etc) and dropping to the low 30's if I just drive normally. 

I knew the Kodiaq was going to be worse than the Octavia, but I was hoping to still be able to get about 41 to 45mpg out of it. I still do think I would get at least a little bit better with a manual. 

 

I drove it for the first time on snow last night and again missed having a clutch. I have no doubt I will get used to it over time. But I also think there are situations where a manual gear box are better and it would be nice to have the choice. 

 

Here in Switzerland the Octavia 4x4 is one of the most used cars by mountain farmers. My manual Octavia that I traded in was gone from the garage forecourt in less than a week so I think there are definitely a number of people out there who would choose a manual if it was an option. Perhaps in the greater scheme of things we are in the minority though. 

 

 

So many people know that an Automatic makes more sense in Snow and in mud / offroad.

The DSG works as an Automatic but really is an Automated Manual.

 

I really have no idea what difference having a manual clutch makes to a 2 wheel drive or All Wheel drive or Haldex / part time AWD.

 

The issue might be in Switzerland that some that like a manual really have not given an auto a chance.

Scottish Mountains are not like Swiss Mountains but there are plenty driving in snow in Automatics.

With the new Octavia 4x4's coming there might be even more.

Edited 27 February, 20206 yr by Roottootemblowinootsoot

3 hours ago, xspartx said:

 

What a  bizarre and ill thought out comment. 

 

 

 

 

 Probably not so bizarre, there's some truth in it, but it's somewhat patronising and disrespectful to the older generation.

1 minute ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

So many people know that an Automatic makes more sense in Snow and in mud / offroad.

The DSG works as an Automatic but really is an Automated Manual.

 

I really have no idea what difference having a manual clutch makes to a 2 wheel drive or All Wheel drive or Haldex / part time AWD.

To me it makes a big difference in feel. 

 

With the DSG if I want to use engine braking on snow I shift down and I have to sense when the car will engage the gear and how much engine braking it will perform. With a clutch I can feel what's happening as I am leaving the clutch off. 

 

The gear shifts are different with the DSG. I will probably get used to it as I said before, but having driven manuals on snow for many years now I find the clutch does help particularly when descending. Going uphill I didn't notice that much difference, but descending a snowy road felt pretty freaky at the start.