Suspected battery drain - desperate for help please

[LordRaiden84]

3 hours ago, Daniel_Bos said:

I would take a simpler first step:

Next time you park it up (for a few days) just disconnect the battery negative.

If it starts fine next time you come to use it, it's not your battery or alternator. Not really any need for charging and measuring etc.

Measuring the voltage of a battery doesn't tell you everything...

I'd need to charge the battery in the first place (got to get my own charger now as neighbour has loaned it out elsewhere ugh).

 

As soon as I get a charger I'll sort it. I'm too reluctant to jump it now from other halfs car as earlier posts have indicated battery damage can result from this.

 

I don't think it's the alternator when I did jump it last time and took it for a long run and let it idle for 30 mins it was measuring 14+V at the time.

 

I dunno I just feel more comfortable removing the battery from the car and charging it inside.

 

I can't park the car in the garage it's currently being used for mass storage (long story) and don't fancy mucking about running a lead out to the car for all the neighbours to see.

 

I feel incredibly lucky because I can use the swmbo's car when they're not working and have access to a works vehicle in the week.

 

If I didn't have the above two options I'd be royally in the carp.

 

So yeah, I'll pick up a charger and monitor the battery over the weekend before moving to next step.

 

I will of course post back and let you all know how I get on. 

 

Any recommendations on a charger would be most welcome.

 

Thanks again all I really appreciate everyone's input.

Edited 3 March, 2020 by LordRaiden84

[Daniel_Bos]

personally the smallest charger I have is a 30A Victron, which would be overkill and then some for what you need...

I believe Ctek is a well respected brand in the car world, you'd want something in the 5 to 10 amp range

[Carlston]

5 hours ago, Daniel_Bos said:

I believe Ctek is a well respected brand in the car world, you'd want something in the 5 to 10 amp range

 

I agree. CTEK is the way to go.

 

Fast charging is bad for your battery, so don't get anything over 10A. Don't charge at more than 0.1C. This means if you have a 60Ah battery, don't charge at more than one-tenth this, ie. 6A. Although do rely on CTEK's advice as they are the experts.

 

Many chargers on the market are not automatic and will keep charging the battery even when full, thereby damaging the battery. I've even seen one charger with a rrp of £180 that was not automatic so would damage the battery unless you managed to switch it off in time...unbelievable!

 

This CTEK adaptor enables your car battery to be charged through the 12V cigarette socket. However, some cigarette lighter sockets are switched off with the ignition.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CTEK-56-870-Comfort-Indicator-Plug/dp/B009K2QX0U/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=CTEK+56-870+Comfort+Indicator+Cig+Plug+-+Black&qid=1583291708&sr=8-1

 

autoexpress have just done a car battery charger test with the CTEK winning.

 

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/36236/best-car-battery-chargers-tested-2020

Edited 4 March, 2020 by Carlston

[LordRaiden84]

So the CTEK MXS 5.0 is the one to go for?

 

Incidentally, the battery currently in the car is a Varta 77AH. Measured it today. Disconnected it was reading 9.05V. When connected it was 7.85V.

 

I have another battery that's in storage that's 11.95V.

 

Would you recommend trying to charge the Varta one first?

 

The other is an ebay jobby and what made me purchase the Varta was the OEM battery off ebay went flat after about a month.

 

I thought it was a dud so got the Varta. Now that's playing up I can't see lightning striking twice.

 

Something must be draining it. I only measured it about 4 days ago and it was 11.80V. It's dropped significantly.

Edited 4 March, 2020 by LordRaiden84

[J.R.]

I hope ypou disconnected it again after the test, at 9v its probably already damaged beyond reuse but it sure will be if it discharges any more.

[LordRaiden84]

I did yes. Said neighbour has his charger back now so I'm going to charge the Varta (if it will ofc) and see if it holds a charge or as you alluded to, buggered.

 

If it's the latter I can at least try the other battery and go from there.

 

Incidentally, I removed fuse No. 28 (Radio) just as a precautionary measure. I want to be dead certain it isn't the Columbus causing the drain.

 

I will get that CTEK one ordered deffo but for now I can use the neighbours.

 

I'll keep all updated.

[J.R.]

Lidl & Aldi sell some very good smart chargers for a very low price, around €15, now is the time of year where they are likely to be on the aisles.

[Carlston]

On 04/03/2020 at 19:51, LordRaiden84 said:

So the CTEK MXS 5.0 is the one to go for?

 

Although the reviews are generally good about the CTEK MXS 5.0 I've read a couple of bad reviews concerning the mechanical button/switch. Apparently it presses down directly on the PCB (printed circuit board) and can be unreliable and unrepairable. Perhaps best to look at other options. Whereas CTEK are a top Swedish company making car battery chargers, Noco are the US equivalent and might be more reliable.

 

There are lots of other options. I'm no expert on car battery chargers, but these caught my attention...

 

Here's a Noco G3500

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOCO-G3500UK-UltraSafe-Battery-Motorcycles/dp/B00E907PWS/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=NOCO+G3500&qid=1583474039&s=automotive&sr=1-6

 

Here's a Noco G7200

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/NOCO-Genius-G7200UK-12V-UltraSafe-Battery-Motorcycles/dp/B00E907QPE/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=NOCO+G7200&qid=1583474126&s=automotive&sr=1-2

 

Here's a Noco GC003 cigarette lighter charger lead for the G3500 and G7200 battery chargers

 

https://www.amazon.de/Noco-GC003-Anschlussstecker-12-V/dp/B004LWWNI0/ref=sr_1_4?__mk_de_DE=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=noco+gc003&qid=1583474523&s=automotive&sr=1-4

 

Here's a Suaoki 7A car battery charger

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SUAOKI-Maintainer-Ultra-Safe-Reconditions-Motorcycle/dp/B07CHDSJLM/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=suaoki+battery+charger+12v&qid=1583475145&quartzVehicle=29-405&replacementKeywords=suaoki+battery+12v&sr=8-5

 

Here's a Bosch 12V C1 car battery charger on german amazon.

 

https://www.amazon.de/gp/offer-listing/B00RP3DEW6/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new

Edited 6 March, 2020 by Carlston

[J.R.]

The Liddlydaldo ones are claimed to be made by C-Tek, well I reckon they are because for years I had problems with the membrane switch on mine before the PCB mounted microswitch finally threw in the towel, it is repairable though, 5 microswitches cost less than €1 delivered from China, once fitted it works better than it ever did from new.

[LordRaiden84]

Thank you for the advice regards a charger. I will have a good read over a brew.

 

Ok, this is where I'm at. Charged Varta up and proceeded to take incremental measurements as follows:

 

07:00 @ 13.08V
10:00 @ 12.62V
13:00 @ 12.58V
16:00 @ 12.56V

18:30 @ 12.55V

 

So, over a 12hr period it's lost 0.53V.

 

The battery is standalone btw and not connected to anything.

 

I'm going to measure tomorrow at 07:00 and see what a 24hr period does. It appears it's steadied out at 12.55V but we'll see what tomorrow brings.

 

Incidentally, the other battery that got charged up to 12.70V could not crank the car. I in the very least expected it to.

 

Now, this is where things get interesting. I believe (unless of course someone can say otherwise), the problem is far worse than first anticipated.

 

After the initial failed crank attempt I did it again and then turned it off. Checked the battery and it read 9.80V.

 

This was literally 10-15 mins after initially fitting the battery.

 

Turned the key again but no attempt to crank and the dash went ballistic. All bells & whistles including the coil light warning and tone then the front lights strobing without actually turning the car over. Then even more beeps with tones that I've ever heard before. Creeped me out tbh.

 

I imagine it's because the voltage is so low so it's throwing a wobbler.

 

My concern is that there has to be some very nasty electrical gremlins at work to reduce the battery voltage that fast. I could understand if I was turning the key like mad and cranking it non stop but not the case here.

 

I do fear a combination of a sinister battery draw along with my lack of education in terms of battery care and attempting to start the car may have borked 2 batteries.

 

I'm going to drown my sorrows tonight with a few beers. I really need them right now.

Edited 6 March, 2020 by LordRaiden84

[J.R.]

The failed cranking attempt and the dash lights etc were with the "other battery" that only charged to 12.7v is that correct?

 

If so then its foutu, it should have come off the charger at 13.3v and then dropped to 12.5-12.7 dependant on how much life remained, that it dropped to 12.7 immediately and then could not crank and lost another 0.7v means its had it.

 

The voltage readings from the other one sound reasonable, not the best but still servicable assuming its still at say 12.5v tomorrow morning.

 

My 1 year old Varta which got overdischarged only holds 12.5v a few hours after coming off charge, its showing 590 CCA EN against a rated 780 CCA EN.

 

Its currently being given the good news from an old school charger thats putting 16.3 volts into it, the electrolyte is bubbling away and I hope that some of the sulphation will drop off with the thermal shock, its kill or cure but not much to lose, I will check the CCA again tomorrow morning when it comes off charge.

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, LordRaiden84 said:

 

 

Ok, this is where I'm at. Charged Varta up and proceeded to take incremental measurements as follows:

 

07:00 @ 13.08V
10:00 @ 12.62V
13:00 @ 12.58V
16:00 @ 12.56V

18:30 @ 12.55V

 

So, over a 12hr period it's lost 0.53V.

 

 

Your first reading should have been taken a few hours after the charge when the battery core had returned to ambient tempreature, it probably only lost 0.05 volts in 6 hours and just a small change in room temp or the innaccuracy of the test meter would account for more than that.

 

If it has 12.5 v tomorrow at the same room temperature then its servicable, probably lost some life through overdischarge but more than capable for now.

 

You will need to resolve the current drain though to avoid further damage.

[LordRaiden84]

I'm assuming if the varta stays at 12.5V then I can use it to try to establish the battery drain fault.

 

On a side note, if the other battery at 12.7V failed to crank the car then what chance do I have with this at 12.5V?

 

If it drops further and at this rate is looking likely then I'm snookered.

 

If the varta holds enough juice to investigate the drain I'd be happy. Right now I'm starting to think getting the car turned over has actually become a non priority.

 

I've browsed some youtube vids and researched the volt drop method for detecting parasitic drain across the fuses.

 

Of all the vids and reading etc there's nothing that points to how to avoid 'waking' the car up when one comes to check the interior fuses.

 

I'm aware you need to close the drop bonnet latch so it activates the microswitch to trick the bonnet is shut but this is for the fuses in the engine bay.

 

Does the same method apply for the drivers door so you can access the side panel fuses?

 

[LordRaiden84]

Got an update.

 

My last post pertaining to asking how to trick the car into thinking it's locked was obviously pretty rhetorical.

 

All I did was to close the latch on the drivers door. Turned out I didn't need to access that fuse panel afterall.

 

I did the current draw trick and was getting very sporadic results where it would spike from 2/3 - 50mA and you needed to wait to catch it in the act.

 

I appreciate that the 'pulling fuses' method isn't the favoured option but removing F8 (Radio) with the meter still connected in series dropped the reading significantly.

 

The car cranked with the Varta and I let it idle for a good 20 mins.

 

It's charging so it proves the alternator is not an issue.

 

Took the car for a good spin and noted any dash warning lights or sounds etc, of which were none.

 

Going to try to (excuse the pun) stay positive and see if the removal of the head unit circuit has cured the drain.

 

If it is that I'll honestly be gobsmacked. That head unit got swapped 4 years ago and never did it back then.

 

What I will say is, the Columbus is tethered into an old parrot CK3100 bluetooth module that was already pre-installed when I got the car in 2015.

 

There's a possibility this may have failed and causing an issue but not sure.

 

Anyways, I will attempt to start the car first thing tomorrow and see if it works.

 

Fingers crossed.

 

[J.R.]

Had you waited 20 minutes after closing the latch before taking the current readings?

 

I have observed the sporadic current spikes when the Canbus was still awake.

[LordRaiden84]

Try 2 hours

[LordRaiden84]

Car started just now and battery charging at 14.4V.

 

Standby at 12.7V.

 

I'll keep monitoring. Looking like it could've very well been the Columbus with the Parrot handsfree but until it's starts regular and maintains consistency then I'm not ruling anything else out.

 

At least for now it's a step in the right direction.