Afternoon all,

 

Im using the lockdown time to get a few jobs on the car sorted out, one of which is replacement of the air con condensor / receiver dryer.

 

More than a year or so ago it was smashed my a stone and all the gas visibly escaped so its completely empty and has been for over a year.

 

My plan is to replace the condensor (just arrived today), and then make the short drive with the AC off to the garage to have it vacuumed out and refilled with gas.

 

My question is do I need to put any AC oil in anywhere, or is the correct quantity still in place in the compressor? What I would prefer is as parts of the regas procedure all oil is removed and refilled with the correct amount, not sure if this is possible?

 

Thanks so much in advance

 

Dan

Edited 27 May, 20206 yr by brown_d9

Drive it to the garage with the belt off and all electrics switched off to preserve battery.

Leave the belt on, there will be enough oil in the compressor and it wont be pumping without system pressure it will simply be turning with no resistance.

 

Some cars drive for years with no refrigerant before being regassed.

The air conditioning system has a pressure switch which will keep the compressor off when there's not enough pressure (refrigerant) in the system so no worry about driving with the belt on, pressing the A/C button won't do anything either

Just worth consideration, since there is no old skool electro mechanical clutch, my understanding is the pump is continually operating just that the regulating solenoid won't be active allowing refrigerant to pass since the pressure sensors will show below lower limit.

 

If their was going to be any system contamination/damage I guess it'll be done already.

 

I would advise removing the compressor solenoid and cleaning/replacing.  You may well end up with temperamental aircon if it is fouled and left unchecked, better done now than afterwards when you'll need to fork out for expensive gas handling charges again.

Very good advice, I would add to that to bench test it or take it to somewhere that can before replacing it.

 

If replacing dont assume that the new one will work, I had a bad one, also dont assume that paying a higher price will get you a better quality/more reliable one, many sellers exploit that psychological trait and make much higher margins selling the cheapest they can buy with glowing descriptions, talk is cheap.

Good luck with this job. It takes ages, stripping the whole front of the car down to get at the condenser. It’s not hard, just time consuming. One bit off advice I would give, mark with a pencil, all the bolts locations on the front panel that holds all the radiators and were the bonnet closes onto. Especially the 2x top side ones for the front wings. Get this wrong, it makes the closing of the bonnet quite hard. 

You can’t extract all the oil without disassembling the whole system and physically trying to remove it, because the condenser is being replaced you will have to account for the lost oil from the condenser, I’m only just learning AC systems so can’t give you an exact figure, I read somewhere that a recommended amount for condenser replacement was 30ml but as I say I’ve not used that figure and it’s just one I’ve read on a U.S website.

When I have slowly vented a system to make my personal hole in the ozone layer no oil or even oil mist was visible.

 

I have removed several condensors and left them tipped up overnight to drain and again not a drop came out.

 

I have bought second hand pumps from breakers and from Ebay where they had made token attempts to seal the connection ports and some oil had leaked into the packaging, I would drain them and measure the oil and in eacch case it was pretty much what the manufacturer specifies for the pump.

 

I have also bough new Chinese pumps and done the same drain test, if anything they had slightly more oil than the Sanden spec.

 

As a consequence I do not worry too much about adding oil, certainly not for a condensor change, I realise that its contrary to "recieved wisdom" but prefer to make my own informed decisions, one person speculating incorrectly can quickly be repeated so often on the internet that it becomes a generally held belief.

 

For me its important that the pump has enough lubrication but there is a danger of hydraulic lock if there is too much, I dont think its needed elsewhere in the system (glad to learn otherwise from someone more experienced) and that the pipes running vertically with loops etc is designed so that the oil remains in the compressor where it does its job.

12 minutes ago, J.R. said:

When I have slowly vented a system to make my personal hole in the ozone layer no oil or even oil mist was visible.

 

I have removed several condensors and left them tipped up overnight to drain and again not a drop came out.

 

I have bought second hand pumps from breakers and from Ebay where they had made token attempts to seal the connection ports and some oil had leaked into the packaging, I would drain them and measure the oil and in eacch case it was pretty much what the manufacturer specifies for the pump.

 

I have also bough new Chinese pumps and done the same drain test, if anything they had slightly more oil than the Sanden spec.

 

As a consequence I do not worry too much about adding oil, certainly not for a condensor change, I realise that its contrary to "recieved wisdom" but prefer to make my own informed decisions, one person speculating incorrectly can quickly be repeated so often on the internet that it becomes a generally held belief.

 

For me its important that the pump has enough lubrication but there is a danger of hydraulic lock if there is too much, I dont think its needed elsewhere in the system (glad to learn otherwise from someone more experienced) and that the pipes running vertically with loops etc is designed so that the oil remains in the compressor where it does its job.

here is a link to denso website, it’s referring to compressors but towards the bottom is a pie chart with where the oil sits in the system, they also explain how to make sure you only replace the correct amount of oil the was removed from the compressor not the total amount of the system.

 

https://www.denso-am.eu/products/automotive-aftermarket/ac-thermal/ac-compressors/practical-tip-on-compressor-oil/

 

considering Denso make a lot of compressors for AC systems I’d like to assume their knowledge is something to take in.

Thanks for that, I replaced the condensor on the Yeti, had to recharge a couple of times so think there may be a leak, if I find it then I will add a measured quantity of oil before recharging the system.

 

I have bookmarked that web page!

No problems, I’ve just invested in a machine so will be trying to get a much better understanding of it all, got to pay the bills somehow during all this madness 🤣

Do you mean one of those stand-alone things they use in the Kwik-fit places that are supposed to do everything for you?

 

They nonetheless need someone like you with some knowledge and a thirst for more.

 

I am thinking of doing the same, its that or Pôle Emploi, shocked to find that in 10 months time I will be considered too old to work or sign on here in France.

Yes a stand alone machine, it’s a lot better than using all the bits of equipment individually, and a lot less hassle which is the main plus point, only thing it won’t do is pressure test with nitrogen which is considered a better way to test for leaks on an AC system over the usual vacuum test.

Thanks everyone for the tips... job is now complete, just waiting for a guy to come out and pressure test and gas it up for me.

 

I too drained the condenser out and the smallest quantity of oil came out... used a touch of it to lube the new o-rings....

 

Job went well... just have to wait and see if its gas tight now!

 

I may well ask the AC guy to inject a touch of oil... see what he thinks when he comes.

Out of interest how long did it take you yo do the job and did you have to remove the front of the car?

21 minutes ago, Liger1956 said:

Out of interest how long did it take you yo do the job and did you have to remove the front of the car?

 

Its a 3 or so hour job I would say now I know exactly what's what, but it took me 2 days including tea breaks and moaning about it being too hot! 

 

I did not take the advice above about marking bolt heads to align everything back up as the last time I had someone else replace the condenser for me and they didn't line anything up, so took a fair amount of time trying to line everything up so the bumper ended up on and off several times so that took some extra time.

 

If this is the first time the bumper and front structure has been off, its well worth taking the advice of marking everything up, there are so many variables to line up otherwise!

Edited 3 June, 20206 yr by brown_d9

12 hours ago, Vrsburnzy said:

Yes a stand alone machine, it’s a lot better than using all the bits of equipment individually, and a lot less hassle which is the main plus point, only thing it won’t do is pressure test with nitrogen which is considered a better way to test for leaks on an AC system over the usual vacuum test.

 

Please update us on your progress and learning.

 

When you vacuum down a system I believe it gives you the weight of refrigerant recovered, is that so? Does it also seperate and measure any oil recovered?

 

I can see the benefit of a pressure test as you can spray a mousse leak detector in all the probable areas, how can you actually localise a leak with a vacuum test?

 

Finally what sort of capital investment are we speaking of for one of these kits and are you tied into a maintenance contract to be able to get them repaired?

 

thanks in advance.

Yes the all in one machines will recover the gas and weigh it, it uses just one bottle that you have to top up, it recovers to this bottle and then fills the system back up using the same bottle it’s recovered too.

 

the machine basically recovers and recycles but you have to keep the bottle topped up as you most likely will be adding gas to the system.

 

some machines will measure the oil taken out the system and some won’t, I know Snap On machines do for instance, as far as I’m aware most machines separate the oil regardless of if they weigh it but don’t take that as gospel.

 

I’m guessing you can’t diagnose a leak through vacuum, you’d have to either take a guess or check for traces of UV die around the system from the gas leaking previously, a vac test isn’t always proof the system is in good order either, you can vac test and get a pass and then pressurise the system with gas and it’ll leak, this is probably where the likes of Kwik fit or other chains get a bad rep as they vac the system put gas in it and then the system leaks and they can’t figure out why.

 

depends on if you want to buy new or used, I went with used, new machines are between £2k - £5k but no doubt there is more expensive machines, used machines hold their value well, but there is some quite old machines that get sold for under a grand.

 

I don’t know about Maintanance contracts but they will need yearly servicing and no doubt a calibration every year.

 

to be honest I’m still quite wet behind the ears with the machine side of things, well most of it, I’ve probably laid most my cards on the table now already 🤣

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good luck with the venture, I hope it rewards you.

 

Do all the gases carry an UV dye? I bought my 13kg cyylinder from the cheapest at that time EU Ebay seller,  my system is charged from it, it may have a leak and if it has UV dye then I will buy a detection lamp.

The gas is clear, it won’t have any additives, guessing as you have a large canister it’ll be proper virgin r134a, the UV dye has to be put in, I’ve ordered some PAO oil with UV dye in it so when I top up the system I’ll be adding some UV dye in the process, you can buy it combined with oil and as a separate bottle.

 

you’ll also need the glasses and a UV light to find the traces.

 

i will say if your thinking of turning it into a continued source of income then make sure the machine can use the newer YF gas as that will future proof any investment and it’ll have better residual value.

Thanks it's something I need to buy, learning from our discussion here and the site linked I do need to add some oil/dye.

 

I will only do it if it loses charge again, a safe bet, that way I can also recharge it properly this time and get the correct weight in it instead of relying on the guages.

Morning fellow Briskies!

 

Apologies for hijacking this thread (Mods: Please move if wrongly posted), but would appreciate your thoughts:

 

Bambi did this (see image) to my Fabia VRS but came off worse.  I managed to make the 4 mile journey back home although both coolant rad and air con condenser have been ruptured as well as the damaged bodywork, number plate and fogs.  Can't be arsed to go thru insurance as they write it off, plus I have lockdown time on my hands to sort.  I've already taken the bumper and top panel off, but a few queries:

 

1)  Can I safely disconnect the refrigerant lines without blowing myself up and do I need any special tools?  (Haynes manual recommends anything to do with disconnecting the condenser should be done  dealer or specialist).  Note: The aircon hasn't worked for at least a couple of years before the deer-strike. 

2)  Could I have damaged the air con compressor since I've been driving the 2 years or so without the air con working?

3)  I have a new rad, condenser, bumper etc. on order - do you recommend I also order a drier (looks like a sink waste bottle trap).

4)  My plan is to remove the rad and condenser when the new parts arrive, refit, replace coolant and then drive the vehicle for re-gassing.  

5)  Alternatively, any thoughts on further butchering what's left of the bumper and fitting a FMIC with hard pipework?  (I've done the 're-attaching the stock boost pipes' a couple of times a while back).  If so, any perceived issues with mounting said FMIC in front of the new condenser?

 

Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions/comments etc.

 

Robstaaaar

1: if the condenser has been ruptured all the gas would of escaped anyway, the Haynes manual says take to specialist as the refrigerant needs to be recovered and not just released into the atmosphere as it damages the ozone, if your sure the condenser is ruptured then I personally would just start to dismantle and replace the busted parts of the system, maybe try not to sniff the open pipework 🤣 as there will still be traces of gas in there as you haven’t had the system under vacuum.

 

I would plug the car in and see why the AC hasn’t worked though just incase it isn’t a usually case of being low on gas.
 

2: I’d assume you’d be ok, as long as it’s had oil in it and moisture hasn’t got to the internals, you won’t be the first or last car that hasn’t had ac working for a while due to low gas in the system.

 

3: I’ve always been under the impression that a new dryer is needed when ever the system has been opened to the elements, but in the second breath a vacuum test put onto the system should also remove any moisture in the system, so it conflicts itself, regardless I would probably fit one, as iirc they also have a filter in them, just let the bloke filling the ac know you’ve replaced the condenser and dryer to account for any oil lost as per our previous discussion in this thread.

 

4: sounds perfectly normal to me

 

5: there won’t be any detrimental effect with mounting the FMIC in front of the AC condenser, and I’m sure a lot of manufacturers already do this.

 

best of luck getting it all back and looking spot on again 👍

 

 

FMIC?

 

Full Monty Intercooler?