Hi..Is the Fabia 1.6 Petrol, 2007 a belt or chain driven engine. Also, the tiptronic gearbox is just a torque converter box? Does it need it's oil changed at certain stages of it's life? I'm looking to buy one..hasn't any history but has had a recent service. Anything I should be concerned about this engine and car, apart from the unknown history? I've done a MOT history check and it seems fine, and mile age is consistent with the car. Sorry for all the questions.TIA.

2 minutes ago, Macin101 said:

Hi..Is the Fabia 1.6 Petrol, 2007 a belt or chain driven engine. Also, the tiptronic gearbox is just a torque converter box? Does it need it's oil changed at certain stages of it's life? I'm looking to buy one..hasn't any history but has had a recent service. Anything I should be concerned about this engine and car, apart from the unknown history? I've done a MOT history check and it seems fine, and mile age is consistent with the car. Sorry for all the questions.TIA.

 

Oh, should also have asked is the 1.2 petrol with the DSG box a better car? I've heard some horror stories about the DSG, but grateful for your comments. TIA

Welcome.

The Tiptronic box did not have a Service Schedule / Guidelines for changing ATF. 

But that does not mean that the Gearbox Fluid can not be changed, some have spoken about doing it at 100,000 miles because there are plenty years and miles since VW Group started using them.

Loads will be around that have never been touched.

 

The horror stories on DQ200 DSG's might well be overblown as there are millions produced, and the World Wide Recall in 2012 which excluded Europe which got a Service Campaign starting in 2014.  That was on 2009-2012 boxes to change the Oil from Synthetic to mineral and do a software update.

Late 2012 boxes got nothing done, some of these have had issues.

Then another Service Campaign in 2017 for 2013-2015 DQ200's, a Software Update. Then from 2014/2015 some have Clutch Slip problems and a TPI covers that.

Then in Australia in 2019 a recall started on some 2011-2016 boxes.  With the DQ 200 DSG on 1.5TSI's some have had software updates.

 

But then Skoda do produce over 2,200 of those DQ200's a day.

 

Then early 1.2 TSI from before 2012 might have timing chain issues.

 

Long story short is, the 1.6 Petrol and tiptronic box seems to be pretty problem free over 13 years if the engine servicing is done.

Unless you can afford to buy a newer car that has the timing chain and DSG issues already addressed then the 1.6 Tiptronic is the more reliable choice I'd say. Obviously its heavier on fuel and a higher tax bracket though.

 

A quick google on the gearbox suggests its an Aisin Warner made TF60SN gearbox. I can't find a definite answer on the recomended change interval but Aisin Warner always have a change interval. The 6 speed Aisin in my Saab had a recomended interval of 60k miles.

 

NO automatic gearbox is "sealed for life"... thats just rubbish. The oil gets heated a lot in the torque converter and eventually gets burned and needs changing.

 

So if it's not already been done I would budget for a gear oil change.

But as far as VW Group are concerned @Phil-E's DQ200 DSG is filled for life unless they are doing recalls.

(They should be paying for any further oil changes that may be required on 2009-2012 cars since they were the ones that first decided an oil change was required as a preventative measure due the possible loss of drive. /sulphur and corrosion...)

It has 2 different oils in the box and the MCU and some DIY change and some have techs / mechanics / specialists change the oil.

As it is those on a Service Desk with a qualification in being a receptionist will be non the wiser on what is what with them.

Exactly. Which I why I intend to change the gear oil on mine at some point.

 

I just can't get my head around the logic of "filled for life". I've always also done the oil on my manual gearboxes that were also "filled for life" and the oil was horrible, filthy and black!

Many thanks folks. Appreciate your helpful comments. Do you know if the 1.6 is chain or cambelt? Tia

I'm fairly certain they are a chain driven engine.

10 hours ago, Phil-E said:

Exactly. Which I why I intend to change the gear oil on mine at some point.

 

I just can't get my head around the logic of "filled for life". I've always also done the oil on my manual gearboxes that were also "filled for life" and the oil was horrible, filthy and black!

 

I agree..........................NO OIL ANYWHERE ON THIS PLANET is good for life............

oh and its chain driven if its a 1.6 petrol 77Kw MPI

 

The engine code would be BTS

Edited 18 July, 20205 yr by UrbanPanzer

21 hours ago, Phil-E said:

Exactly. Which I why I intend to change the gear oil on mine at some point.

 

I just can't get my head around the logic of "filled for life". I've always also done the oil on my manual gearboxes that were also "filled for life" and the oil was horrible, filthy and black!

 

Manual gearbox oil does not get hot and cannot get contaminated like engine oil does, the colour change from light to dark is due to oxidation of the additive pack which contains sulphur so it gets smelly as well, changing it is not necessary but maintaining the level is important because the gearbox relies on the splash effect to lubricate everything so occasional top ups are essential.

 

A DSG gearbox is a robotized manual, not an automatic.

 

ATF on the other hand should definitely be changed in conventional automatic gearboxes with a torque converter, this includes tiptronic gearboxes.

The world wide recall of DQ200's in 2012 which excluded countries like in Europe which are not in the world somehow but which eventually got service campaigns started in 2013/14 was to replace the synthetic oil that was filled at the factory and was part of the issue with corrosion and sulphur.

In some countries not in the world for the world wide recall like New Zealand the cars got a new MCU fitted and the Mineral Oil and software update.

 

The fix was to use Mineral oil.

 

https://www.sgcarmart.com/news/events_features.php?AID=2943

 

 

 

Edited 19 July, 20205 yr by Roottoot

The article clearly states that the mechatronic unit was replaced, it doesn't mention mineral oil at all, I would say that the gearboxes had to be drained to replace that unit and that they were refilled with much cheaper oil because they were part-worn already and didn't need the additional protection of the fully synthetic fluid.

 

The MCU was the fix, the use of mineral oil was incidental and an expedient cost saving on work that had to be done FOC.

@sepulchrave

Whatever the early articles say, the MCU's were not replaced in Europe and some other world regions, and the synthetic oil was changed for mineral under Service Campaign '34F7'. 

Then from 2013-2015 some were getting the service campaign '34H5' because of the premature failure of the boxes / leaks.

That is a Software Update.

 

This forum does have people that had the cars and followed what went on and is still going on.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/315115-service-campaign-dq200-dsg-oil-changeecu-update-fabias-in-th-uk

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/444027-201718-dq200-dsg-34f7-service-campaign-any-further-issues

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/447800-dq200-dsg-2011-2015-service-campaign-experience

 

3 hours in Countries where the Recall or Service Campaign as called in New Zealand had the new MCU fitted.

 

2 hours in Europe or anyplace else where just the Oil was changed from synthetic to mineral and all done within 45 minutes in many cases.

Some places even failed to apply the software update correctly, and never road tested the car after the work was carried out.

 

Lots of vehicles missed out on '34F7' that should have had it carried out, this was because all Registered Keepers were not contacted, 

even though the DVLA in the UK were supposed to have given the Registered Keepers contact details to VW UK.

Then there were those that were told that their vehicle had Mineral Oil already filled, or just that their vehicle required no action.

Then there were other cars that did not require '34F7' because built late 2012, but have since failed.

There were even 2013 cars that dealerships did do '37F7' to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 19 July, 20205 yr by Roottoot

Dude, I can read, the article made no mention of an oil change, why are you charging off on some sort of massive tangent then getting ****y pants when I ask questions?

 

The OP simply wanted to know whether or not to change the ATF in a tiptronic gearbox ferchrissakes, not some rambling story about your faulty DSG recall.

 

As a general rule MANUAL gearbox oil does NOT need changing, there are sound engineering reasons why this is true, those who advocate changing the oil do so for personal religious or superstitious reasons, they're not doing any harm by changing it but doing it because it "looks nasty" or "smells funny" is not really a valid objective reason with any basis in the scientific method and advising others to do so wastes their time and money, particularly when they have a gearbox fault.

 

Do you honestly imagine that manufacturers base their advice on guesswork, no, they base that advice on TESTING gearboxes to destruction and tribological sampling to determine the condition of the oil as the gearbox wears out. The conclusion reached is that the oil actually outlasts the gearbox components.

@sepulchrave

 

Since you can read, maybe go back and read the OP and pay attention to the questions asked, post 1 and post 2,

and that was not just about a tiptronic oil change as in the first one.

 

The OP got answers and then you crack on as usual talking about stuff you seem to know very little about particularly.

I think that since the VW Group came up with the DQ200 and have produced millions they coc-ked up several times and tried getting away with what they could in Europe and in world regions where courts and authorities rip them a new one they spent on Recalls and remedial actions and gave owners extended warranties.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/439395-the-story-of-the-famous-dq-200-clutch-slip

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/473213-another-dsg-recall-today-sorry-if-already-posted

 

In Australia now where the emissions are not a concern really the Karoq is available with a 1.4tsi (not a hybrid) & an 8 speed automatic.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/477576-new-australian-karoq-release-for-your-amusement

 

The other solution for VW and DQ200's is that the 1.0TSI & 1.5TSI's with be Light Hybrid and the cars start off in electric mode, 

and soon those that are not will have the potentially troublesome DQ200 for a while longer.

Millions of good ones around and sadly VW Group hate to admit to the lemons.

 

 

Like the blind leading the blind and just blethering on really.

 

 

Edited 19 July, 20205 yr by Roottoot

Ok, so I've answered post one since I know about it, I'll leave post two to you, let us all know when you're ready to make a firm recommendation between the 1.6 Tip and the 1.2 DSG 🙃