Handbrake shoe adjustment / new cables

[VWD]

In the annual check on run up to MOT, I noticed one brake cable sticking, so replaced it to find that the old one ( OEM) is a bit linger than the new one. Possibly difference between pattern and OEM, so that got changed out. Along with this I noticed a bit of brake fluid inside the drum ,so a new wheel cylinder and new shoes were in order. One side ( driver side) has gone back to a good working handbrake, but the passenger side caused problems. Very difficult to get the passenger side and driver side to give equal retardation on first click. then the penny dropped- I did not have to move the adjuster wedge on the passenger side to remove the drum, ergo the adjustor wedge was stuck/not moving. Looking at the workshop manual exploded diagram ,and using a bit of engineering common sense   I'd say the blip faces the backplate ( away from the shoes). Move the shoes slightly and the wedge moves down. After removing and cleaning the wedge I tried moving it down ,and applying handbrake three times . I then tried to remove drum, as if the wedge had dropped ,then drum would be tight . Whoopee- drum was tight ,so I proceeded to set up the cable adjustment. So heads up if one drum causes problems on shoe /cable change - check for a sticky wedge.

As I've cleaned it up , I'd suggest that next shoe change it might be worth changing either what is called in the Skoda workshop manuals as item 4 & 5 ( pressure rod & wedge). I've tried a new spring with no results.

So can anyone help me out with the part no's for both.

And as I envisage I'll need a lot more part no's in the near future ,a source of where to find the parts numbers.

TIA.

 

Edited 13 October, 2020 by VWD

[TMB]

The part number for the adjuster wedge is 171 609 705 (same on both sides). They have very fine teeth that can eventually become worn and cause the wedge to slip. The pip on the wedge does indeed have to face towards the backplate otherwise the pip will jam against the shoe web.

 

The top brake shoe push rods are....

 

Left 6Q0 609 819 A

Right 6Q0 609 820 A

 

Source for part numbers  https://skoda.7zap.com/en/cz/

Edited 14 October, 2020 by TMB

[AndyPandy]

As I have mentioned before,brake cables should be replaced in pairs.because if only one is fitted,the stretch will be different.which effects the efficiency of the handbrake. Always use proper Skoda parts,because pattern parts use a smaller diameter inner cable.Fitting pattern cables will mean you will continue to have to adjust for the stretch,and holding the car on a hill will be worse.

[J.R.]

Rubbish, there is a compensator.

 

You can mention it as many times as you like, it wont make it any more valid.

 

I dont disagree with the wisdom of replacing in pairs but only because if one has failed there is a probablilty that the other may follow.

[Tech1e]

I find Pagid cables work perfectly fine. That said genuine ones were surprisingly reasonable.

 

That said the VAG rear drums aren't the greatest. Best thing I did on my MPI was grab a disc rear beam and swap it over.

[VWD]

Likewise on Pagid cables. Skoda ones ( from TPS ) are possibly reasonable with trade discount. But Pagid from ECP are reasonable ( if like a certain furniture store,you choose the right time). As for cable thickness - the origonal and the Pagid one ( without resorting to a micrometer) appear to be of the same thickness. The compensator- great if you use two new cables. I'd suspect that after a lot of years( 13) the passenger side had stretched a bit, making adjusting the compensator difficult, if not nigh on impossible. 

Older cars I've had relied on an arm inside the drum to operate the shoes in handbrake mode and the lever had to be at right angles to the  shoes before the handbrake was applied  to be at max efficiency. The lever was difficult to obtain, so I always followed the advice an old Vauxhall foreman gave me if I had a problem handbrake and levers were not available- build up the worn edge with a weld. I've always seen this method last for over a year. I even had one MOT tester ask how I got a Maxi handbrake to work so well.

The adjustor- it wasn't that the grooves had worn, just that in uppermost position it got stuck. Even after a good rub down with emery paper and a soak in brake cleaner and a coating of brake grease it still stuck. In the end I cheated and manually moved it down till I could  get the drum on with a little tap. I then tensioned the cable slightly before  pulling the handbrake on three times. Bit of a faff on, but I then released the tension and tried to get the drum off. The fact that it was tight proved that the wedge had dropped. I knew I'd got it right when on first handbrake click the compensator was level and both rear wheels were equally hard to move.

 

TMB- again many thanks- I've found my local VAG  dealer is a better place to go to than the Skoda main dealer.

 

One last point- on the handbrake cable that stuck . On removal, I noticed that where it's held on the clip etc nearest the handbrake lever, that there was evidence of the outer being damaged with a bit of rust . I also noticed evidence of rust pitting on the other cable . Possibly just my car, but others with cars approaching 12 might want to drop the cable and inspect.

[VWD]

Again on the clip on the  rear arm ( holding the brake cable to the arm) . It can be removed from the trailing rear arm using suitable sized screwdrivers( brute force job). And on replacement, after adjusting the surfaces with a pair of pliers use a small socket ( I used a 1/4 drive 10 mm long reach) to tap the securing legs to the arm.

[AndyPandy]

On 14/10/2020 at 12:13, J.R. said:

Rubbish, there is a compensator.

 

You can mention it as many times as you like, it wont make it any more valid.

 

I dont disagree with the wisdom of replacing in pairs but only because if one has failed there is a probablilty that the other may follow.

You Are Wrong! You are talking Rubbish! If the compensator automatically adjusts for stretched cables,why is there a 10mm threaded adjustment rod at the lower end of the handbrake?. I have fitted non OEM cables,and was having to adJust them to take up the stretch in the cables.over a period of 3 months.I changed both cables with proper skoda parts ,and have not had to adjust them.

Just because you have put a lot a lot of posts in doesn't mean you know it all!!

Edited 17 October, 2020 by AndyPandy

[J.R.]

OK, if you say so.

 

What do you consider is the purpose of the compensator?

 

A clue might be in the name.

Edited 17 October, 2020 by J.R.

[J.R.]

You speak of "stretched cables" which I agree is the regularly used term but like much recieved wisdom is incorrect.

 

If you compare the new cable against the supposedly "stretched" one you will see that it is the outer flexible sheath that has contracted with use, its only really apparent when the load is applied as they spring back when released, so the difference in length of the outer that you see when both cables are laid side by side is much greater when in operation on the vehicle.

[AndyPandy]

when measured pattern cables inners I got were of smaller diameter than Skoda brake cable inners,so they will stretch more.

Edited 19 October, 2020 by AndyPandy
words missed out

[VWD]

Andy- I have not measured the replacement cables I bought from ECP, but I'd suggest that the replacements ( trade name = PADGID) were of similar diameter and construction to the  originals fitted to my car.

Problem I came across was that the wedge adjuster failed to drop, until I manually moved it . After that the brakes went into auto adjust and the compensator levelled up. It's a bit easy, but a PITA to check that the wedge has dropped . After replacing the drum and pulling up handbrake the three times , try the handbrake. Then release handbrake and try to remove drum. If the adjuster has  adjusted, then it will not be possible to remove the drum, and the compensator should be level . If the drum comes of without problems, thn it's time to look at the wedge movement. I found with an old dirty wedge, that a lot of cleaning & sanding and moving it down til it was almost possible to fit drum worked. Handbrake up three times and compensator was level. Tighten till wheels were tight with handbrake on fitst notch.