Hello,

I have a 2013 Fabia Vrs, has about 84k on the clock, don't know about oil consumption as its fairly new to me (but cthe are supposedly better with oil right?). The car mostly drives okay. Sure I'm missing something but ask away.

 

Anyway, been having a couple problems with acceleration like it pulses every half a second (speeds up, slows down etc.) Seems to happen in most gears, sometimes with a still foot and others when putting the foot down just a little. I want to say this happens between 2-3k revs most usually. I've seen a few similar threads and seems like most people don't know why it happens.

 

Another, which I only recall happening in 3rd and possibly 4th gear. Giving it a little boot and if it holds around 3.5k revs for anymore than a couple seconds the EML light flashes a few times and goes off.

 

Got codes for random cylinder misfires a little while back, which I think could have been down to fuel mix and when I put 99ron in it definitely ran smoother. Haven't had diag on it since to check.

 

Finally, I changed the spark plugs yesterday to denso to see if they were the problem but didn't seem to make a difference. According to the log book it only had new ones 3k miles ago but I wanted to rule it out. There should be a photo of the ones I pulled, I'd like to know what you see here and if there's any telltale signs, I don't have a clue what I'm looking for. Theyre in order as they sit in the engine, as you can see there was a little oil on them and a fair bit on #2. Thanks!

plugs look "ok" to be fair.

 

It "sounds" like a misfire, which if its not plugs could be a coil pack as these are common to fail on ALL VAG cars................

 

BUT.....to be sure the car needs scanning again to see where the misfires were and "if" they are still present, which I suspect they are.

 

Using normal or super unleaded will not cause misfires. If the EML has come on, a fault code WILL be logged and it needs interogating.

 

You say your in East midlands (profile), where abouts ? I am near Burton on Trent, if your local I could plug in and scan with VCDS if you wish.

Edited 20 May, 20215 yr by UrbanPanzer

1 hour ago, UrbanPanzer said:

plugs look "ok" to be fair.

 

It "sounds" like a misfire, which if its not plugs could be a coil pack as these are common to fail on ALL VAG cars................

 

BUT.....to be sure the car needs scanning again to see where the misfires were and "if" they are still present, which I suspect they are.

 

Using normal or super unleaded will not cause misfires. If the EML has come on, a fault code WILL be logged and it needs interogating.

 

You say your in East midlands (profile), where abouts ? I am near Burton on Trent, if your local I could plug in and scan with VCDS if you wish.

Yeah thanks Mate.

 

Although theres a few things going on there it was mainly opinions on the pulled spark plugs.

 

As for the rest I guess it's just gonna have to be some box ticking until the issue is found. Someone else said they think it will be coils too.

 

It is going to our regular mechanic tomorrow to have a check over, he will check it for codes then and go from there.

 

That's a nice offer, I live in Mansfield and I do have a computer guy but it is just catching him when he is not busy. I'll keep it in mind.

Have you any coolant loss from expansion tank or strange noises when startup / idle? I've just had the £250 + labour waterpump part replaced. Mine 11 years old, If this waterpump part is failing it could cause boost problems.

16 hours ago, Nodnerb said:

I changed the spark plugs yesterday

Well, to me plugs 1 and 3 look Ok, 2 looks very sooty and 4 maybe a bit sooty. Have you checked the injectors? If you have VCDS you're looking for the duty cycle, and it should be around the same for all 4 injectors, and under 90% for preference.

@Nodnerb

Welcome to the forum.

Could you check the gap on all 4 of those plugs you removed,

and what was the gap at with the new Denso plugs you fitted?

 

PS

Under acceleration you have turbo & supercharger up to 3,500 rpm.

Commonly the misfires are at around that point under hard acceleration, then the Super Charger disengages.

?

Do you know if the Water Pump been replaced.

 

One think i noticed when a water pump / supercharger magnetic pump was going to be needing changed is not just a little drop in coolant, 

but if you had the car in Cruise Control and at around 70 mph, if you started to go up an incline on the motorway / dual carriageway the Engine Exhaust Emission Light could come on or the Engine light and the ECP could both come on.

Edited 21 May, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

@Kobayashi Haven't noticed any coolants loss, however I haven't kept much of an eye on it up to yet so it is possible. And there is a noise for 30 seconds or so at cold start-up, hard to recall exactly without hearing it now but I want to say its a little squeak/tapping sound, maybe even close to a chirping. Isn't too loud but noticeable when idle with an open window.

 

@KenONeill Okay, thanks for the info. I haven't checked the injectors and don't have VCDS either. I'm not very mechanically minded but know a few bits here, handy though so the plugs were no problem with a guide.

 

@e-RoottootAll of the pulled plugs were just a fraction short of 0.7, I'd say close to 0.68.

The new ones are have a gap of 0.8, as I think you also recommended or said you used in another thread.

I have no documentation of a water pump being replaced, I will double check now and get back if there is.

I haven't used the cruise control but perhaps I should give that a test as see if it does as you say? That's if my car returns without any reported problem, which is likely.

Thanks

Update: Mechanic put new plugs and coil packs in, said coils had blown the plug/s. I know he's the mechanic but does that sound feasible? I wouldn't know. I changed the plugs myself only days ago, had one short drive and he drove it to the shop.

 

Either way, It does drive better. Just went out and gave it some it some beans. The pulsing acceleration didn't appear like it has been doing. EML flashed once for a few when I tried to recreate it ( steady 3,500 rpm for a couple seconds) did not do it a second time when I tried.

Fingers crossed.

 

My experience has been that a plug on its way out has caused the premature death of a coil.

 

It is not uncommon for the Exhaust Emissions light to come on when a car has been in a garage or bodyshop ticking over / ideling, or getting moved about and running cold and rich.

 

2 of the plugs you removed were sooted, and one particularly.

Once the car is running right, if you gave it a good blast after the oil is up to temp and then gave the car a good roasting and stopped then let the engine cool 

& removed the plugs they would very likely all be nice and clean.

The long term problem with CAVE & CTHE has been the one plug getting sooted up & then oiled up.

The first CTHE's out late 2012 to early 2013 got Software Updates and the SEAT Ibiza Cupra was delayed being launched until the software was updated.

Strangely there were still CTHE cars delivered that then had the Oil Spray Jet update as some were still oil users.

Edited 21 May, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

Likewise; it's more likely for a bad plug to eat a coilpack, and it is possible for a new plug to also be bad. My experience across all the sets of plug my meatspace friends and I have replaced says that about 1 plug in 1_000 is bad; I make that 1/1_000_000_000_000 that you'd get 4 bad plugs.

^^^ Generally true.

But with 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136 kW Twinchargers especially CAVE but not exclusively the issue is one plug.

That comes from the design of the Inlet manifold and the plug that gets fouled and gets cooked.

Not all but the failure rate with the 1,800 or so CAVE engine Fabia in the UK was high.  More than a 25% failure rate of original engines and even like for like replaced engines.

There were many that had one plug lose a tip. Some were terminal to the engine and some were not.

@e-Roottoot  @KenONeill

 

Brilliant, thank you both for the info.

I suppose it is not too much of a stretch to say that previous plugs had caused a coil go which caused a problem. Then my mechanic also put more new plugs in himself just because he *thought* it might have been an issue.

Fitting a whole new set of 4 coils seems unnecessary? Means more money spent, however, if its sorted the thing out I'm happy with the arrangement.

24 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Likewise; it's more likely for a bad plug to eat a coilpack, and it is possible for a new plug to also be bad. My experience across all the sets of plug my meatspace friends and I have replaced says that about 1 plug in 1_000 is bad; I make that 1/1_000_000_000_000 that you'd get 4 bad plugs.

This is how I originally discovered the oil problem and plug problem, also had 1 bad denso plug (unlucky) that is in them pictures above

Edited 21 May, 20215 yr by Kobayashi

 

2 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

^^^ Generally true.

But with 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136 kW Twinchargers especially CAVE but not exclusively the issue is one plug.

That comes from the design of the Inlet manifold and the plug that gets fouled and gets cooked.

Not all but the failure rate with the 1,800 or so CAVE engine Fabia in the UK was high.  More than a 25% failure rate of original engines and even like for like replaced engines.

There were many that had one plug lose a tip. Some were terminal to the engine and some were not.

I had been through quite a few of the threads before joining but decided to jump on a give my story. Obviously i've read about many engine replacements, would you says it's unusual for something that serious to rear its head this late in its life?

@Nodnerb  Did you get the New Denso you fitted back?  & what plugs has the mechanic fitted, more Denso?

 

How much for the plugs and coils and his time?

 

PS

I do not think you had anything serious, just the usual that a Twincharger needs to keep them all good.

 

The CTHE has more issues with the Timing Chain / Tensioner than the CAVE had.

There is a TPI covering that.

 

Chill and do not stress.

Edited 21 May, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

3 hours ago, Nodnerb said:

Thanks for the replies so far.

 

@Kobayashi Haven't noticed any coolants loss, however I haven't kept much of an eye on it up to yet so it is possible. And there is a noise for 30 seconds or so at cold start-up, hard to recall exactly without hearing it now but I want to say its a little squeak/tapping sound, maybe even close to a chirping. Isn't too loud but noticeable when idle with an open window.

 

@KenONeill Okay, thanks for the info. I haven't checked the injectors and don't have VCDS either. I'm not very mechanically minded but know a few bits here, handy though so the plugs were no problem with a guide.

 

@e-RoottootAll of the pulled plugs were just a fraction short of 0.7, I'd say close to 0.68.

The new ones are have a gap of 0.8, as I think you also recommended or said you used in another thread.

I have no documentation of a water pump being replaced, I will double check now and get back if there is.

I haven't used the cruise control but perhaps I should give that a test as see if it does as you say? That's if my car returns without any reported problem, which is likely.

Thanks

I am inspecting my old waterpump 2moz, there is excessive play in the mechanism, will upload a video to the 'water pump  thread' the new waterpump had no play, keep an eye on coolant as when it is near the end it really starts to suck the coolant

5 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

@Nodnerb  Did you get the New Denso you fitted back?  & what plugs has the mechanic fitted, more Denso?

 

How much for the plugs and coils and his time?

 

PS

I do not think you had anything serious, just the usual that a Twincharger needs to keep them all good.

 

The CTHE has more issues with the Timing Chain / Tensioner than the CAVE had.

There is a TPI covering that.

 

Chill and do not stress.

Yeah the Denso I put in myself are with me, so they will stay with me as back up probably. No idea what he put in though which was a little concerning after reading many other threads, but I'll ask him or just whip one out tomorrow.

 

I didn't get an invoice because he's behind, he knows us well so will just drop it by anytime. A rough estimate from the prices he gave I want to say just shy of £150 but I'm only guessing here.

 

I did take a quick look at the chain and to my eyes seems okay. Tension also. I will have a read up.

 

Yeah I was a little worried but after the test drive I feel much more comfortable. Thanks!

17 minutes ago, Kobayashi said:

I am inspecting my old waterpump 2moz, there is excessive play in the mechanism, will upload a video to the 'water pump  thread' the new waterpump had no play, keep an eye on coolant as when it is near the end it really starts to suck the coolant

Very much appreciated.

I will take a look at the thread and do some checks.

22 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

@Nodnerb  Did you get the New Denso you fitted back?  & what plugs has the mechanic fitted, more Denso?

 

How much for the plugs and coils and his time?

 

PS

I do not think you had anything serious, just the usual that a Twincharger needs to keep them all good.

 

The CTHE has more issues with the Timing Chain / Tensioner than the CAVE had.

There is a TPI covering that.

 

Chill and do not stress.

 

Interested in why you say that ????...........because looking at the parts manual, the parts are the same on both engines for the chain and tensioner etc

 

What did the TPI say ?

Edited 21 May, 20215 yr by UrbanPanzer

@NodnerbHere.  But really do not stress on this.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/438447-2012-2014-cthe-mk2-fabia-vrs-timing-chain-issues

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/451694-skoda-fabia-vrs-14-tsi

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/424866-vrs-timing-chain

 

The TPI is on the Techs measuring the chain wear of CTHE's.

 

Edited 21 May, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

Don't see anything really conclusive to be fair that would suggest the CTHE has an inherent issue / time bomb......... just a few threads.

 

I wonder how many misfire / mil light issues with CAVE engines turned out to be timing chains in the end (if there is an issue)

 

I think because the chain life expectancy is basically down to quantity and qaulity of engine oil, it's difficult to gauge if there really is an issue because cars low on oil / driven hard and serviced by who ever could show timing chain issues

as a result of what is basically poor maintenance.

 

Offcourse if there is some official VAG docs, service bulletiin / recall info regarding chain issues........ I for one would love to see it

 

Interesting point below in one of the threads you linked.........

 

Posted 21 February, 2017

long story this one but I thought I would share it in case anyone else has the same problems.

my problems started December last year with the engine misfiring, soon afterwards I had the ECP light come on and the car go into limp mode, after pulling over on the hard shoulder and restarting the car seemed fine so I carried on only for it to happen again a bit later.

I phone my local dealer who told me not to drive the car and call Skoda Assist I was back at the office by then so I called them and they came and scanned the car and said there was a misfire logged on all 4 cylinders, they cleared the codes ran an ecu update and after road testing the car it all seems fine.

a few days later the problems were back worse than before so I booked it in with my local dealer for them to look at, I went to collect at the end of the day and they said they would have to have it back for a week to check more thoroughly as they couldn't trace the fault, I rebooked for the first week of January as they couldn't load a car for a week until then.

I dropped my car off and left in a very slow CityGo but at least it wouldn't stop on the motorway every hour, I rung them when a week was up to check it was all sorted but they said very sorry we've had a lot if illness and haven't managed to find out much on your car we will let you know how we get on tomorrow, I then started ringing every day to chase them because it seemed they had done pretty much nothing all week, over the next week they changed the fuel filter and not much else and were telling me they were baffled.

at this point I had had enough of the CityGo and was feeling pretty annoyed with the dealer so I rung Skoda UK who said they would contact the dealer to find out what was going on and I also contact the customer service department of the dealers parent company who told the dealer to change the CityGo for a larger car, I was called by the dealer who said they were still working on my car but had a Yeti I could have instead of the CityGo.

over the next 2 weeks they tried various things and finally told me that they were going to change the timing chain as it seemed to have stretched, they did this serviced the car at the same time and fitted new spark plugs at my request and I finally got the car back after 5 weeks.

so in conclusion it seems in addition to its other problems the twin charger can also suffer from timing chain stretch, on the upside my car doesn't use oil and now is as good as new again, and I also didn't pay a penny apart from the service as I had extended the warrantee.

 

So was it using oil, not checked between services as many people don't believe they have a need to.........., then the chain suffered lack of tensioning and stretched............

Edited 21 May, 20215 yr by UrbanPanzer

I know the name of each member here that had issues and not all have posts on here because lots communicate by pm or in person as they did not want to say post about a duff car before selling or trading it in.  The issues arose after the last CAVE vehicles were out of Warranty and CTHE were in Warranty and Some Skoda /VW techs were denying issues.  There are only less than 1,100 UK CTHE vRS and the cars that has chain stretch might well be very few. But luckily those that needed new chains had a Warranty and eventually VW had to issue a TPI.    Forewarned is forearmed.   Many buying a used car do not know when and what was done while the car was under warranty or since out of warranty.  There were various actions taken as try outs in the past 12 years since Skoda / Seat /VW/ Audi started selling them. Sometimes not all 4 brands got the same actions from Dealerships.   @SeaGoatmight still be around and oil and maintenance was something he was fussy about as were many others that got the Warranty Work carried out.    The matter was not overblown on a forum as VW Group like to make out.  The issue was under reported and Dealership staff claimed to not know of the issues.   They were responsible for many cars leaving dealership low on the crappy long life VW 504 00 and telling owners they all used oil.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/457262-2013-fabia-mk-ii-vrs-rattle-to-left-of-engine

People were having to pay through the nose and still having important info on their cars not given to them. 'They all do that sir, or never heard of that.

 

@pearce_jjwas another that did not mistreat his car.

He had this, and the chain issue and the slipping clutches.  People cane to the forum, but then had to come with issues because the Dealership employees panned them off.  Chain done at 33,000 miles.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/434190-cthe-new-software-for-misfire

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/433353-cthe-momentary-harsh-power-loss

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/433469-cam-belt-or-chain

 

Edited 21 May, 20215 yr by e-Roottoot

2 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

I know the name of each member here that had issues and not all have posts on here because lots communicate by pm or in person as they did not want to say post about a duff car before selling or trading it in.  The issues arose after the last CAVE vehicles were out of Warranty and CTHE were in Warranty and Some Skoda /VW techs were denying issues.  There are only less than 1,100 UK CTHE vRS and the cars that has chain stretch might well be very few. But luckily those that needed new chains had a Warranty and eventually VW had to issue a TPI.    Forewarned is forearmed.   Many buying a used car do not know when and what was done while the car was under warranty or since out of warranty.  There were various actions taken as try outs in the past 12 years since Skoda / Seat /VW/ Audi started selling them. Sometimes not all 4 brands got the same actions from Dealerships.   @SeaGoatmight still be around and oil and maintenance was something he was fussy about as were many others that got the Warranty Work carried out.    The matter was not overblown on a forum as VW Group like to make out.  The issue was under reported and Dealership staff claimed to not know of the issues.   They were responsible for many cars leaving dealership low on the crappy long life VW 504 00 and telling owners they all used oil.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/457262-2013-fabia-mk-ii-vrs-rattle-to-left-of-engine

People were having to pay through the nose and still having important info on their cars not given to them. 'They all do that sir, or never heard of that.

 

@pearce_jjwas another that did not mistreat his car.

He had this, and the chain issue and the slipping clutches.  People cane to the forum, but then had to come with issues because the Dealership employees panned them off.  Chain done at 33,000 miles.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/434190-cthe-new-software-for-misfire

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/433353-cthe-momentary-harsh-power-loss

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/433469-cam-belt-or-chain

 

This is all good information thank you. In terms of mine, there is only a bit of a noise just as it is starting so I am not too concerned about it for now.

Have updated the water pump thread with video of failing component,