Anyone help with unexpected clunking noise in engine?

[MartinMMorgan]

Hi guys 

Got a 15 plate Fabia, 20k miles on the clock. Car is still under dealership warranty, but can anyone help advise what may be causing this noise is (please see attsched file). When I start the engine there is a clunking noise. When I engage the clutch or fiddle about with the clutch being in gear or neutral, the noise sometimes dissipates and disappears. Although sometimes this clunking may sound worse in neutral or vice versa when in gear. There sounds like something is caught or trapped/rattling and moving about but I cannot locate the source of the noise. The noise isn't consistent. The noise occurred immediately following myself  stalling whilst parking today. Any help is much appreciated. 

 

Thank you. 

[MartinMMorgan]

Here's the clunking just after turning the engine off right now :/

[nta16]

Martin, what engine have you got (more detail in your logo thingy would save asking)? ETA: I've just seen it's a TDI, thank gawd for that, be rough for a petrol.  

 

Have look in the engine bay for anything obvious like (only as an example, the bonnet prop) loose, the clutch (taking up drive) may or may not have significance other than causing more vibration.  Then have someone else start the engine whilst you look and listen - take car with a running engine, don't put or drop anything that could cause damage to it and/or the car.

 

Why did you or the car stall?  Have you had any other things you noticed whilst driving the car?

 

Can you do a video of the car start sound.

 

Too many items on your keyring jangling to hear much on the second video.

 

You really need some one holding the microphone (phone) steady as you're possibly getting extraneous sounds from that being moved.

 

That's enough for a start with.

 

 

Edited 31 July, 2021 by nta16
ETA:

[MartinMMorgan]

51 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Martin, what engine have you got (more detail in your logo thingy would save asking)? ETA: I've just seen it's a TDI, thank gawd for that, be rough for a petrol.  

 

Have look in the engine bay for anything obvious like (only as an example, the bonnet prop) loose, the clutch (taking up drive) may or may not have significance other than causing more vibration.  Then have someone else start the engine whilst you look and listen - take car with a running engine, don't put or drop anything that could cause damage to it and/or the car.

 

Why did you or the car stall?  Have you had any other things you noticed whilst driving the car?

 

Can you do a video of the car start sound.

 

Too many items on your keyring jangling to hear much on the second video.

 

You really need some one holding the microphone (phone) steady as you're possibly getting extraneous sounds from that being moved.

 

That's enough for a start with.

 

 

https://streamable.com/52ozxx

https://streamable.com/amaifi

https://streamable.com/zfa1zl

 

Thank you so much for the reply. 

I've uploaded additional video links due to the file upload size being restricted on this forum. 

 

I stalled by accident though I was at fault. I went to park up and turn the engine off, only to turn the engine off whilst parked up and in gear (foot on the clutch pedal). 

 

I've tried locating the noise but it is shifting about. Now you have to listen for it, whereas immediately following my stalling it was "clunk clunk clunk" per second. Most noticeable is in the first two of my video uploads. The links below are not very noticeable.. I'm just really baffled for words.. Though upon immediately stalling engaging the clutch pedal etc was having some form of affect on the noise being made. I've tried inspecting the car etc and cannot find anything loose. I'm really lost for words. 

 

Martin. 

 

 

[MartinMMorgan]

58 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Martin, what engine have you got (more detail in your logo thingy would save asking)? ETA: I've just seen it's a TDI, thank gawd for that, be rough for a petrol.  

 

Have look in the engine bay for anything obvious like (only as an example, the bonnet prop) loose, the clutch (taking up drive) may or may not have significance other than causing more vibration.  Then have someone else start the engine whilst you look and listen - take car with a running engine, don't put or drop anything that could cause damage to it and/or the car.

 

Why did you or the car stall?  Have you had any other things you noticed whilst driving the car?

 

Can you do a video of the car start sound.

 

Too many items on your keyring jangling to hear much on the second video.

 

You really need some one holding the microphone (phone) steady as you're possibly getting extraneous sounds from that being moved.

 

That's enough for a start with.

 

 

Also it went into limp mode last night for a matter of half a minute if that. Upon cycling the key it was back to normal though and my power/performance remains unchanged still despite this clunking. When it went limpy I did not have any warning lights. I've no idea with this clunking though. What's annoying is that it was so painfully obvious earlier whereas now the noise is shifting and if I didn't have half a brain cell I'd swear it was hiding from me lol. 

[MartinMMorgan]

1 hour ago, nta16 said:

Martin, what engine have you got (more detail in your logo thingy would save asking)? ETA: I've just seen it's a TDI, thank gawd for that, be rough for a petrol.  

 

Have look in the engine bay for anything obvious like (only as an example, the bonnet prop) loose, the clutch (taking up drive) may or may not have significance other than causing more vibration.  Then have someone else start the engine whilst you look and listen - take car with a running engine, don't put or drop anything that could cause damage to it and/or the car.

 

Why did you or the car stall?  Have you had any other things you noticed whilst driving the car?

 

Can you do a video of the car start sound.

 

Too many items on your keyring jangling to hear much on the second video.

 

You really need some one holding the microphone (phone) steady as you're possibly getting extraneous sounds from that being moved.

 

That's enough for a start with.

 

 

It sounds like shoes bouncing about in the tumble dryer  whereas earlier it was literally like knocking two spanners together 😢 

[nta16]

Just to remind I don't have mechanical aptitude.  I thought I could here something in the first video but not really in the others.

 

When you say the noise is shifting around do you mean within the engine bay or car?

 

Sounds are devils to track sometimes, you're probably too young to remember this advert but it does actually cover a point. - 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKmf0YjZXqo

 

Sometimes you have to remove everything from the car (boot, storage areas, glovebox, umbrella from under seat storage, etc.).  My wife use a metal water bottle that sometimes gets forgotten and clangs on the passenger seat runner rail of my car and the note is different depending on how full the bottle is, caught me out twice wondering what the noise was.

 

Some of these questions are also to lead on to something else

 

You've checked the obvious stuff like the engine is full of oil and water, nothing loose, the engine was fully warmed?

 

What colour is the engine oil, a drip off the dipstick to a piece of white paper? 

 

Have you been doing a lot of short journeys, no long journey?

 

How much fuel is normally in the tank?

 

When was it last serviced? 

 

[nta16]

25 minutes ago, MartinMMorgan said:

Also it went into limp mode last night for a matter of half a minute if that.

Now you say!  

 

I was going to put something and it might (or might not be) even more relevant now, I'll await your answers to previous question.

 

[MartinMMorgan]

18 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Just to remind I don't have mechanical aptitude.  I thought I could here something in the first video but not really in the others.

 

When you say the noise is shifting around do you mean within the engine bay or car?

 

Sounds are devils to track sometimes, you're probably too young to remember this advert but it does actually cover a point. - 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKmf0YjZXqo

 

Sometimes you have to remove everything from the car (boot, storage areas, glovebox, umbrella from under seat storage, etc.).  My wife use a metal water bottle that sometimes gets forgotten and clangs on the passenger seat runner rail of my car and the note is different depending on how full the bottle is, caught me out twice wondering what the noise was.

 

Some of these questions are also to lead on to something else

 

You've checked the obvious stuff like the engine is full of oil and water, nothing loose, the engine was fully warmed?

 

What colour is the engine oil, a drip off the dipstick to a piece of white paper? 

 

Have you been doing a lot of short journeys, no long journey?

 

How much fuel is normally in the tank?

 

When was it last serviced? 

 

Hi buddy, 

By shifting I mean that earlier (as in the initial videos) the noise was painfully obvious whereas now it's more subtle. And by shifting I feel there are variations and inconsistent occurrences all within the engine bay. 

 

Car is on 20 thousand miles. Last serviced a month ago but that was only oil and filters all around. The oil appears at full level and is semi transparent in colour (not overly light in colour but not dirty or black neither). Last major service was 8 months ago. 

 

Car is on 3 quarters full of diesel at the moment. 

 

Primarily long journeys on single and dual carraigeways and motorway. I avoid short journeys wherever possible. Though the previous owner only did low mileage. As shown by the low mileage on a 15 plate. 

 

By the car going into limp mode, it went limpy. No warning lights or anything. Though my power reduced and the car was limited to virtually stopping. I thought nothing of it because I cycled the key switch and the car powered immediately on as normal with no fault lights whatsoever or further issues. It also has not appeared limpy since and the performance is what I'd expect and believe to be normal again. 

 

I spoke with an acquaintance who is offering to inspect my vehicle tomorrow (specialises in transmissions/clutches and gearbox replacements). From the initial videos he suspects a dual master flywheel. 

[MartinMMorgan]

1 minute ago, MartinMMorgan said:

Hi buddy, 

By shifting I mean that earlier (as in the initial videos) the noise was painfully obvious whereas now it's more subtle. And by shifting I feel there are variations and inconsistent occurrences all within the engine bay. 

 

Car is on 20 thousand miles. Last serviced a month ago but that was only oil and filters all around. The oil appears at full level and is semi transparent in colour (not overly light in colour but not dirty or black neither). Last major service was 8 months ago. 

 

Car is on 3 quarters full of diesel at the moment. 

 

Primarily long journeys on single and dual carraigeways and motorway. I avoid short journeys wherever possible. Though the previous owner only did low mileage. As shown by the low mileage on a 15 plate. 

 

By the car going into limp mode, it went limpy. No warning lights or anything. Though my power reduced and the car was limited to virtually stopping. I thought nothing of it because I cycled the key switch and the car powered immediately on as normal with no fault lights whatsoever or further issues. It also has not appeared limpy since and the performance is what I'd expect and believe to be normal again. 

 

I spoke with an acquaintance who is offering to inspect my vehicle tomorrow (specialises in transmissions/clutches and gearbox replacements). From the initial videos he suspects a dual master flywheel. 

**Dual mass flywheel

[MartinMMorgan]

38 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Now you say!  

 

I was going to put something and it might (or might not be) even more relevant now, I'll await your answers to previous question.

 

The clunk is now occurring each time I press the clutch pedal down. Besides that it still isn't ridiculously noticeable as with earlier. This is what I mean by the severity of the sound is changing from time to time. I find it very confusing.

 https://streamable.com/4bzbh6

 

Gonna get it checked over by my acquaintance tomorrow (second opinion) and hopefully the Dealership will contact me ASAP monday to arrange an inspection under warranty. Just paranoid they'll palm me about. They're there to make money, they don't like forking back lol. 

[nta16]

ETA: another follow up post, to, er, follow up.

 

Martin as long as you don't have to pay this acquaintance (especially at Sunday rates!) but specialists sometimes jump to the sexy exotic without first going through the boring and unsexy basics, a good specialist or mechanic or anyone will always start with the boring, unsexy basics as you often can't properly preceded without doing so.

 

And bear in mind your car is under warranty so you don't want anyone touching it other than driver's maintenance.

 

The sound not remaining in the same place might (or might not) suggest that it's from a fixed location and possibly from within a bigger area such as inside the engine, just not running right.

 

You've blown my two original (unoriginal) thoughts of car battery low, and sensors and filters getting clogged up by short journeys only.

 

The following video makes good points, for you that fact that you lost power might suggest any number of faults the computers might thought you had at that time so it could throw in a fault too.

 

This vid makes some good point, not all apply now but can in future. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkL9wYgWLlI

 

 

 

[MartinMMorgan]

5 minutes ago, MartinMMorgan said:

The clunk is now occurring each time I press the clutch pedal down. Besides that it still isn't ridiculously noticeable as with earlier. This is what I mean by the severity of the sound is changing from time to time. I find it very confusing.

 https://streamable.com/4bzbh6

 

Gonna get it checked over by my acquaintance tomorrow (second opinion) and hopefully the Dealership will contact me ASAP monday to arrange an inspection under warranty. Just paranoid they'll palm me about. They're there to make money, they don't like forking back lol. 

*pressing clutch pedal down whilst in neutral. Cannot tell at higher speeds due to engine noise. 

[MartinMMorgan]

1 minute ago, nta16 said:

ETA: another follow up post, to, er, follow up.

 

Martin as long as you don't have to pay this acquaintance (especially at Sunday rates!) but specialists sometimes jump to the sexy exotic without first going through the boring and unsexy basics, a good specialist or mechanic or anyone will always start with the boring, unsexy basics as you often can't properly preceded without doing so.

 

And bear in mind your car is under warranty so you don't want anyone touching it other than driver's maintenance.

 

The sound not remaining in the same place might (or might not) suggest that it's from a fixed location and possibly from within a bigger area such as inside the engine, just not running right.

 

You've blown my two original (unoriginal) thoughts of car battery low, and sensors and filters getting clogged up by short journeys only.

 

The following video makes good points, for you that fact that you lost power might suggest any number of faults the computers might thought you had at that time so it could throw in a fault too.

 

This vid makes some good point, not all apply now but can in future. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkL9wYgWLlI

 

 

 

My acquaintance is nice enough. He's loaded too and tends to do me favours in all fairness to him. 

 

Fingers crossed buddy I'll find out or get somewhere. I'll give that video a look now. 

 

Thank you for your insight and help though btw mate! It really does help when someone else is trying to tackle the problem with me lol. 

 

[MartinMMorgan]

7 minutes ago, nta16 said:

ETA: another follow up post, to, er, follow up.

 

Martin as long as you don't have to pay this acquaintance (especially at Sunday rates!) but specialists sometimes jump to the sexy exotic without first going through the boring and unsexy basics, a good specialist or mechanic or anyone will always start with the boring, unsexy basics as you often can't properly preceded without doing so.

 

And bear in mind your car is under warranty so you don't want anyone touching it other than driver's maintenance.

 

The sound not remaining in the same place might (or might not) suggest that it's from a fixed location and possibly from within a bigger area such as inside the engine, just not running right.

 

You've blown my two original (unoriginal) thoughts of car battery low, and sensors and filters getting clogged up by short journeys only.

 

The following video makes good points, for you that fact that you lost power might suggest any number of faults the computers might thought you had at that time so it could throw in a fault too.

 

This vid makes some good point, not all apply now but can in future. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkL9wYgWLlI

 

 

 

Also good point buddy. I 110% won't be getting any work done tomorrow by him. Just hoping to diagnose the fault prior to going down the warranty route. A second opinion beforehand won't hurt. Just cautious with dealers that's all. After all, the warranty means they have to pay not me. 

[nta16]

Yes see your acquaintance as it will give you peace of mind and if required power/knowledge to present to the dealer if they get wriggly.

 

It might be as your acquaintance fears or something simple.  Obviously don't drive it unless you have to and if it's not pushing the relationship too far get if your acquaintance can come over to you all the better.

 

Your typing faster than me, I'm old. 

 

[MartinMMorgan]

4 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Yes see your acquaintance as it will give you peace of mind and if required power/knowledge to present to the dealer if they get wriggly.

 

It might be as your acquaintance fears or something simple.  Obviously don't drive it unless you have to and if it's not pushing the relationship too far get if your acquaintance can come over to you all the better.

 

Your typing faster than me, I'm old. 

 

25, though I feel old and tired already if it helps lol? Life is  consistently stressful; problem after problem. Dread to think what I'll be like in another 25 yrs.

[nta16]

Often things seem better after sleeping on it,  It might not be serious and the dealer might want to do the right thing if its required.  Being prepared is good but you don't need to cross the bridge until you get to it and you might not get to it.

 

Let us know how you get on as it all adds to the collective knowledge (not that I'd remember, I'd be something of an expert if I could remember the solutions to all the car problems I've had.

 

[nta16]

1 minute ago, MartinMMorgan said:

25, though I feel old and tired already if it helps lol? Life is  consistently stressful; problem after problem. Dread to think what I'll be like in another 25 yrs.

You'll learn that many things in life are relatively very unimportant, certainly lumps of metal, and that a very few things are very important so you needn't worry much about anything but these.

 

A big problem today can be often be forgotten tomorrow.

 

I'm 61 btw but feel about 80 some days, but then others I feel 59.  

 

[MartinMMorgan]

3 hours ago, nta16 said:

You'll learn that many things in life are relatively very unimportant, certainly lumps of metal, and that a very few things are very important so you needn't worry much about anything but these.

 

A big problem today can be often be forgotten tomorrow.

 

I'm 61 btw but feel about 80 some days, but then others I feel 59.  

 

Thank you buddy. Your wisdom is much appreciated! Sometimes it takes that other person to remind you it ain't the end of the world - and I think that happened to be you with me this time around. I will certainly update and let you all know how I get on. 

 

Take care, friend.

 

Martin. 

[nta16]

Hey, I'm very often on the opposite side with owning an old British car, and having had others too, and dealing with the English motor trade (like all of us).  I think something is a total disaster just because another ****-poor modern made part has failed or more repercussion from ****-poor work and attitudes from some in the motor trade and someone has to remind me it's not the end of the world, even though I already know it myself I often need reminding.

 

I had a very bad and very expensive, in monetary and emotional terms, experience with a car and people associated with it, far worse than usual and the final dragged out outcome was I learnt to value that car and my current car at zero, that way I could cut my losses and unless I had to pay someone to take it away I never needed to spend (or waste) any more money on it unless I wanted to.  I can't say I'm entirely successful with my present car but there's far less pressure on me about it's ownership.    

[MartinMMorgan]

4 hours ago, nta16 said:

Hey, I'm very often on the opposite side with owning an old British car, and having had others too, and dealing with the English motor trade (like all of us).  I think something is a total disaster just because another ****-poor modern made part has failed or more repercussion from ****-poor work and attitudes from some in the motor trade and someone has to remind me it's not the end of the world, even though I already know it myself I often need reminding.

 

I had a very bad and very expensive, in monetary and emotional terms, experience with a car and people associated with it, far worse than usual and the final dragged out outcome was I learnt to value that car and my current car at zero, that way I could cut my losses and unless I had to pay someone to take it away I never needed to spend (or waste) any more money on it unless I wanted to.  I can't say I'm entirely successful with my present car but there's far less pressure on me about it's ownership.    

 

I think you've a good outlook and way of looking at it. Cars can be money pits at times, like all things.

 

BTW I seen my acquaintance today. He seems 100 percent confident it's the dual mass flywheel despite the noise being subtle at the moment and not overly noticeable. He said to get onto the dealership ASAP tomorrow and fingers crossed get it sorted under warranty. As a back up in case things go sour, he said he will price up the part for me in the week. He seemed shocked though and said at 20k miles such failure is catastrophic and unacceptable, particularly when paying top dollar for an "exceptional condition" car via dealers. He said he recently done an Audi flywheel for just under £1000, but says it should be much cheaper for the Skoda. Fingers crossed it won't come to me having to fork out mind. I'm three weeks into a 3 month warranty and have covered 700 miles, if that. 

[nta16]

If it's that you want to get it done under warranty as what's caused it.  Whole point of the dealer and you having a warranty on the car.

 

You could do a search here to see if it's a known fault, the more information you have the better for approaching the dealer on the subject.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

 

[MartinMMorgan]

On 01/08/2021 at 14:17, nta16 said:

If it's that you want to get it done under warranty as what's caused it.  Whole point of the dealer and you having a warranty on the car.

 

You could do a search here to see if it's a known fault, the more information you have the better for approaching the dealer on the subject.

 

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

 

Hi buddy, got hold of them today. Initially they were both helpful and patronising at the same time. I spoke to the gent, explaining I'd only done 700 miles if that and only bought it 3 weeks ago. They tried saying it's perishable and insinuated maybe it's partly my fault. I said "Hang on, the vehicle has only done 20 thousand miles. I've had it three weeks. You cannot put that on me." Then they tried making out they are doing me the favour by taking a look tomorrow and providing me with a courtesy car. They said if the dual mass flywheel they will replace it free of charge.  Though they got me thinking when they said "if something else or related to driver error you may be liable for the costs though we would waiver labor costs."  I was thinking yeah right. I said to them if they fix the issue fine, if not; put the car back together and I'll get it fixed elsewhere. Hoping they see it through and just sort it as expected without messing me about. At the end of the day I explained to them I paid top dollar and don't see how they can try and put me liable for any costs. Downside is I have to travel from South Wales (where I live) to Exeter (their workshop) tomorrow. Already been to my acquaintance.  They have said, worst case scenario they'll do the dual mass flywheel and clutch for £650, though the dual mass flywheel needs to be imported from Germany (the costliest part altogether). My acquaintance has quoted the cheapest. Other places are offering silly quotes upward of £900 to £1000 for parts and labor.

 

 

[nta16]

Martin it could all be a bit of miscommunication or misunderstanding between yourselves, or not, either way you need to be fair and perhaps firm.

 

The vehicle was sold to you as "exceptional condition" (but this is difficult to prove unless it is recorded somewhere) and if you paid top money for it you expected it to be in better than average condition allowing for it's age and mileage.

 

I would point out to you that the car is 6 years old with only 20k-miles which is less than an average of 3,500 miles per year, unless the recorded mileage each year shows different, that sort of mileage might suggest lots of short journeys so lots of gear changes perhaps, unless there is evidence otherwise.  You said you've been doing mainly longer journeys including dual-carriageways and motorways and avoiding short journeys so you would do far less gear changes so the problem is less likely from your ownership and more likely from previous ownership.

 

Your ownership mileage over three weeks of 700 miles is nearly four times the previous ownership average, unless you're often going up steep hills, towing, dragging the clutch or think the clutch pedal is a footrest how have you worn the clutch in such a short time.

 

Some people do though - I almost put this story before, we saw an old lady in a hire/loan car, that was a brand new registration that week, turn up a road with a steep hill and she was slipping the clutch and revving the rocks off the new car.  I wonder if all these computers in the car now record that somehow.

 

If dual-mass flywheel is a known problem to the make and model then a dealer should know about it and check for it if possible before selling the car as "exceptional condition" and if they did, or didn't know this, it is why there are warranties, which you have been given (bought?), they will probably try to get their money back from a warranty too if they took one out themselves or sold one to you.

 

They may argue that by "exceptional condition" they only meant cosmetically but if they didn't include that word (term/condition)  then it has a wider interpretation that I'd guess an average car buyer would take as meaning the whole car.

 

You need to research dual-mass flywheel is is a common problem and what else needs replacing with it at the same time, your acquaintance suggests the clutch too, if Skoda (UK or franchise dealer) also suggest this then you should also check that's what your dealer is going to do as part of the warranty work.

 

If dual-mass flywheel is a part that has failed within itself then again a dealer should know about this but not an average customer, that's again why they might have bought and/or sold a warranty on the vehicle.

 

Make sure they understand they are not to do any chargeable work without getting conformation from you.

 

Personally on dropping the car off I'd want to know what time I should ring them when they will be looking at what is wrong BEFORE they carry out any rectification work, and probably ring before that anyway.  Garages can send videos nowadays of them looking at the car before starting work on it.

 

Perhaps they're just being cautious by saying if it's driver error, or you got an old-style slippery motor-trade 'person' in which case he'd need to explain exactly what you as a driver could have done as driver neglect or abuse to the car and how it is proven that you done this and not previous owners or the garage itself.  Just displaying a burnt out clutch on a garage floor means very little unless they happen to have some sort of expert forensic lab and experts to call on.  (See attached).

 

See how it goes tomorrow, things might not be as bad with the garage as you think, but just in case record everything and do nothing wrong yourself, two ears one mouth, use that ratio.  Remain calm and polite, things could turn out well so be prepare but don't cross any bridges unless you come to them, allow yourself plenty of time to think, don't act in haste, don't rush to fill breaks in conversation allow time for explanations.

 

https://techassist.valeoservice.systems/sites/default/files/2020-04/TSB-VSUK-CL196 20 Dual Mass Flywheel – Its Purpose and Main Failures.pdf

 

Good luck.

 

TSB-VSUK-CL196 20 Dual Mass Flywheel – Its Purpose and Main Failures.pdf

Edited 2 August, 2021 by nta16
speeling and stuff