21 hours ago, nta16 said:

Martin it could all be a bit of miscommunication or misunderstanding between yourselves, or not, either way you need to be fair and perhaps firm.

 

The vehicle was sold to you as "exceptional condition" (but this is difficult to prove unless it is recorded somewhere) and if you paid top money for it you expected it to be in better than average condition allowing for it's age and mileage.

 

I would point out to you that the car is 6 years old with only 20k-miles which is less than an average of 3,500 miles per year, unless the recorded mileage each year shows different, that sort of mileage might suggest lots of short journeys so lots of gear changes perhaps, unless there is evidence otherwise.  You said you've been doing mainly longer journeys including dual-carriageways and motorways and avoiding short journeys so you would do far less gear changes so the problem is less likely from your ownership and more likely from previous ownership.

 

Your ownership mileage over three weeks of 700 miles is nearly four times the previous ownership average, unless you're often going up steep hills, towing, dragging the clutch or think the clutch pedal is a footrest how have you worn the clutch in such a short time.

 

Some people do though - I almost put this story before, we saw an old lady in a hire/loan car, that was a brand new registration that week, turn up a road with a steep hill and she was slipping the clutch and revving the rocks off the new car.  I wonder if all these computers in the car now record that somehow.

 

If dual-mass flywheel is a known problem to the make and model then a dealer should know about it and check for it if possible before selling the car as "exceptional condition" and if they did, or didn't know this, it is why there are warranties, which you have been given (bought?), they will probably try to get their money back from a warranty too if they took one out themselves or sold one to you.

 

They may argue that by "exceptional condition" they only meant cosmetically but if they didn't include that word (term/condition)  then it has a wider interpretation that I'd guess an average car buyer would take as meaning the whole car.

 

You need to research dual-mass flywheel is is a common problem and what else needs replacing with it at the same time, your acquaintance suggests the clutch too, if Skoda (UK or franchise dealer) also suggest this then you should also check that's what your dealer is going to do as part of the warranty work.

 

If dual-mass flywheel is a part that has failed within itself then again a dealer should know about this but not an average customer, that's again why they might have bought and/or sold a warranty on the vehicle.

 

Make sure they understand they are not to do any chargeable work without getting conformation from you.

 

Personally on dropping the car off I'd want to know what time I should ring them when they will be looking at what is wrong BEFORE they carry out any rectification work, and probably ring before that anyway.  Garages can send videos nowadays of them looking at the car before starting work on it.

 

Perhaps they're just being cautious by saying if it's driver error, or you got an old-style slippery motor-trade 'person' in which case he'd need to explain exactly what you as a driver could have done as driver neglect or abuse to the car and how it is proven that you done this and not previous owners or the garage itself.  Just displaying a burnt out clutch on a garage floor means very little unless they happen to have some sort of expert forensic lab and experts to call on.  (See attached).

 

See how it goes tomorrow, things might not be as bad with the garage as you think, but just in case record everything and do nothing wrong yourself, two ears one mouth, use that ratio.  Remain calm and polite, things could turn out well so be prepare but don't cross any bridges unless you come to them, allow yourself plenty of time to think, don't act in haste, don't rush to fill breaks in conversation allow time for explanations.

 

https://techassist.valeoservice.systems/sites/default/files/2020-04/TSB-VSUK-CL196 20 Dual Mass Flywheel – Its Purpose and Main Failures.pdf

 

Good luck.

 

TSB-VSUK-CL196 20 Dual Mass Flywheel – Its Purpose and Main Failures.pdf 802.54 kB · 1 download

Hi buddy, thank you for the response and attached document; I found both very useful. 

 

I left at 6am and got there just before midday. Garage mechanics were rather polite though the sales manager is patronising at times (having spoken to him a few times). I was polite and highlighted the videos I'd taken and sent via email of the mechanical issue. I was provided a courtesy car and left soon afterwards.

 

Unfortunately though I received a call just prior to 5pm. They have ruled out the dual mass flywheel without taking apart anything to investigate. I didn't appreciate the salesperson dismissing my concerns due to the sound not being as obvious anymore as it was in the video. When I pointed out that the car had went limpy and that it doesn't change the fact that the noises it has been making isn't normal,  the sales manager was again very dismissive. I feel I have been palmed off and asked for the garage to call me with any updates. I doubt I will get far with them. Today's experience has not been the best unfortunately. We are all adults and understand people disagree  but to dismiss my concerns without investigating properly and to then question the reliability of my acquaintance is very upsetting. If still having got nowhere tomorrow, I shall be collecting my vehicle and going elsewhere. I trust my acquaintance; they have continually encouraged me to pursue the warranty so I don't feel they are lying in order to profit off of myself. I am anticipating getting the work done with them and updating on how I get on. I'm remaining as calm as possible during interactions with the dealership though it is difficult if I am honest. 

Martin this is nothing to do with the sales manager don't engage with him, be polite but don't engage with him, this is a warranty matter which is After Sales.

 

Explain that there is a fault with your car and a noise, the car is under warranty so an investigation is needed.  If the warranty was sold to you then you can contact the warranty provider because they will have other garages that can carry out warranty work.

 

The garage that your car is with should run a scan to find any error codes, you could ask for that report, they can transfer it to your phone.  If they find nothing relevant such as other possible error codes that might relate to the car going 'limp' for other reasons then they need to road test the car under the conditions you've told them cause the issue.

 

I'm sorry you found it upsetting and do understand, now the but, but you do need to accept and distinguish between being asked questions about the car, your driving of it and qualification of your acquaintance which are reasonable and being palmed off - and I'm not saying you wasn't, how could I as I wasn't there.

 

You do need to give the garage a chance, to hopefully sort the matter and/or do the right thing, or even the chance to not do the right thing, before you move on.  I'm all for cutting the losses for the sake of not wasting time with those that don't want to help and to save energy and emotions but you're not at that point yet as far as I can tell.

 

Again, don't deal with the sales manager - a) it's After sales not Sales, b) by now it's obvious you're probably never going to get along with or trust him, c) he might normally be a decent sort - or he's living up to a stereotypical car sales manger that treats his staff and customers like something he's just trodden in so why waste more of your life on him than you absolutely have to.

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

Edited 3 August, 20214 yr by nta16

On 02/08/2021 at 21:00, nta16 said:

Martin it could all be a bit of miscommunication or misunderstanding between yourselves, or not, either way you need to be fair and perhaps firm.

 

The vehicle was sold to you as "exceptional condition" (but this is difficult to prove unless it is recorded somewhere) and if you paid top money for it you expected it to be in better than average condition allowing for it's age and mileage.

 

I would point out to you that the car is 6 years old with only 20k-miles which is less than an average of 3,500 miles per year, unless the recorded mileage each year shows different, that sort of mileage might suggest lots of short journeys so lots of gear changes perhaps, unless there is evidence otherwise.  You said you've been doing mainly longer journeys including dual-carriageways and motorways and avoiding short journeys so you would do far less gear changes so the problem is less likely from your ownership and more likely from previous ownership.

 

Your ownership mileage over three weeks of 700 miles is nearly four times the previous ownership average, unless you're often going up steep hills, towing, dragging the clutch or think the clutch pedal is a footrest how have you worn the clutch in such a short time.

 

Some people do though - I almost put this story before, we saw an old lady in a hire/loan car, that was a brand new registration that week, turn up a road with a steep hill and she was slipping the clutch and revving the rocks off the new car.  I wonder if all these computers in the car now record that somehow.

 

If dual-mass flywheel is a known problem to the make and model then a dealer should know about it and check for it if possible before selling the car as "exceptional condition" and if they did, or didn't know this, it is why there are warranties, which you have been given (bought?), they will probably try to get their money back from a warranty too if they took one out themselves or sold one to you.

 

They may argue that by "exceptional condition" they only meant cosmetically but if they didn't include that word (term/condition)  then it has a wider interpretation that I'd guess an average car buyer would take as meaning the whole car.

 

You need to research dual-mass flywheel is is a common problem and what else needs replacing with it at the same time, your acquaintance suggests the clutch too, if Skoda (UK or franchise dealer) also suggest this then you should also check that's what your dealer is going to do as part of the warranty work.

 

If dual-mass flywheel is a part that has failed within itself then again a dealer should know about this but not an average customer, that's again why they might have bought and/or sold a warranty on the vehicle.

 

Make sure they understand they are not to do any chargeable work without getting conformation from you.

 

Personally on dropping the car off I'd want to know what time I should ring them when they will be looking at what is wrong BEFORE they carry out any rectification work, and probably ring before that anyway.  Garages can send videos nowadays of them looking at the car before starting work on it.

 

Perhaps they're just being cautious by saying if it's driver error, or you got an old-style slippery motor-trade 'person' in which case he'd need to explain exactly what you as a driver could have done as driver neglect or abuse to the car and how it is proven that you done this and not previous owners or the garage itself.  Just displaying a burnt out clutch on a garage floor means very little unless they happen to have some sort of expert forensic lab and experts to call on.  (See attached).

 

See how it goes tomorrow, things might not be as bad with the garage as you think, but just in case record everything and do nothing wrong yourself, two ears one mouth, use that ratio.  Remain calm and polite, things could turn out well so be prepare but don't cross any bridges unless you come to them, allow yourself plenty of time to think, don't act in haste, don't rush to fill breaks in conversation allow time for explanations.

 

https://techassist.valeoservice.systems/sites/default/files/2020-04/TSB-VSUK-CL196 20 Dual Mass Flywheel – Its Purpose and Main Failures.pdf

 

Good luck.

 

TSB-VSUK-CL196 20 Dual Mass Flywheel – Its Purpose and Main Failures.pdf 802.54 kB · 1 download

 

Hi buddy, quick update. The garage I bought the vehicle from dismissed it being the dual mass flywheel despite admitting they did not take anything apart; they merely listened to the engine. I had the clutch opened today and was provided with proof it is the dual mass flywheel. Warranty was unfortunately useless and I had a bad experience. My acquaintance has offered to do it for £650, including replacement of the clutch (crush two birds with one stone). It is booked in for August 24th. Car is fortunately driving fine and should not fail in the meantime given the dual mass flywheel issue is intermittent and not on its last pegs as of yet.

Sorry to hear that Martin, I feel a bit bad now saying the noise you previously heard was probably just turbo, perhaps that was but you were certainly right with being concerned about this fault.

 

There are some positives, expensive ones now but possibly good value for you from now on.  The experience has taught you a few things which I doubt you'll forget, first hand knowledge and experience.  You were lucky to know your acquaintance and have someone trustworthy do the work fully rather than those very reluctant to do even the minimum.  Using your new clutch, and DMF, properly you should get many, many years and miles out of both and not have to worry about how previous owners might have treated them.

 

In some ways you have been lucky, I was still very naïve in the ways of the motor trade at your age, and much older, but I had a very good Skoda experience at your age, in 1985 my first Skoda, in profile image, from the Skoda dealerships at the time that wanted your return business so were more friendly and honest.

 

Yes in some ways you have been lucky so you can be glad about those at least.

 

Thanks for reporting back.

 

 

6 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Sorry to hear that Martin, I feel a bit bad now saying the noise you previously heard was probably just turbo, perhaps that was but you were certainly right with being concerned about this fault.

 

There are some positives, expensive ones now but possibly good value for you from now on.  The experience has taught you a few things which I doubt you'll forget, first hand knowledge and experience.  You were lucky to know your acquaintance and have someone trustworthy do the work fully rather than those very reluctant to do even the minimum.  Using your new clutch, and DMF, properly you should get many, many years and miles out of both and not have to worry about how previous owners might have treated them.

 

In some ways you have been lucky, I was still very naïve in the ways of the motor trade at your age, and much older, but I had a very good Skoda experience at your age, in 1985 my first Skoda, in profile image, from the Skoda dealerships at the time that wanted your return business so were more friendly and honest.

 

Yes in some ways you have been lucky so you can be glad about those at least.

 

Thanks for reporting back.

 

 

 

It's no problem at all buddy; I said I would report back. And please don't apologise. It could have been anything like you said. And to be honest it was nice having people like yourself to prevent me from stewing on it and overthinking the situation!

 

Exactly buddy, I am sure it will last a very long time. As you pointed out it had only done 20k over 5 years so most likely short journeys and a lot of wear and tear.  On the plus side too I do not believe £650 to be too bad of a price for a dual mass flywheel and new clutch (everywhere else at best was quoting more toward a grand). 

 

And for sure, I'm glad I enquired about the noise. At least now I need not worry about an unfortunate breakdown or unexpected repair bill. The dual mass flywheel has been ordered directly from VW in Germany (mad to think we couldn't find one in the UK).

 

Take care,

Martin.

I don't know how bad the dealer was overall in this one particular matter but it sounds like you might be best to forget about returning to them for anything.  Those with that sort of attitude, or as I have met more than once simply con-men, are a waste of time to get even what they should do out of they as it won't be done well and may end up costing even more to rectify.

 

Remember that video I put up on running modern diesel and keep on top of your batteries and vehicle use, prevention being better than cure, and you'll have better times with your car in the future.

 

Read your Driver's Handbook ('Operating Instructions') and refer to it as required and you'll know more about your car than many long term owners.

 

Good luck, cheers.

 

Just had my 15plate skoda fabia 3 done. New single flywheel clutch and drive shaft. Converted from Dual mass flywheel. Luckily enough I didn't have to update any firmware for the stop start as well as I've read on here some need it. Drives lovely now. 

 

Steve