Hi everyone, First thing in the morning the car has developed a delayed start when cold. This morning I cycled the switch and held it in and it did nothing for 5-10 secs. Car is a 15 plate, less than 30k on the clock. Is this a starter motor issue? Or could it be some faulty relay? I looked in the fuse box but can't see any relays under the hood, just fuses.

 

Also after my car has started and been ran for couple of minutes the ignition cycles without delay and without issue.

 

Anyone have any advice? 

Does the car have a starter relay and would anyone know the location of this?

 

Thanks.

1 hour ago, CReese123 said:

Hi everyone, First thing in the morning the car has developed a delayed start when cold. This morning I cycled the switch and held it in and it did nothing for 5-10 secs. Car is a 15 plate, less than 30k on the clock. Is this a starter motor issue? Or could it be some faulty relay? I looked in the fuse box but can't see any relays under the hood, just fuses.

 

Also after my car has started and been ran for couple of minutes the ignition cycles without delay and without issue.

 

Anyone have any advice? 

Does the car have a starter relay and would anyone know the location of this?

 

Thanks.

By did nothing I mean no sound of car trying to turn over, no nothing for a long period with the switch turned. All symbols on the dash illuminate instantly mind so I  believe the battery to be in good health.

Was the clutch fully pressed down? - our fabia* sometimes does the briefest attempt at a start, then nothing, despite all displays and warning lamps being on as usual before, during, and after the attempted start.

 

Driver and passenger look at one another, ignition off, foot fully down on clutch, try start again and off it goes.

 

I'm presuming this is the microswitch(es) for the "clutch must be pressed for you to start the car" being not quite fully activated.

 

Regards

 

John H

 

* this fabia is a similar age to yours - we've had it since it was 6 months old, and this issue has happened a few times over the years. Probably fewer than10 times in total, only when I'm driving.. AFAIK.

Actually checking that the 6 year old battery is ok would be an easy start to a diagnosis.   If on the way out best not get stuck. 

16 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

Actually checking that the 6 year old battery is ok would be an easy start to a diagnosis.   If on the way out best not get stuck. 

 

43 minutes ago, johnh510 said:

Was the clutch fully pressed down? - our fabia* sometimes does the briefest attempt at a start, then nothing, despite all displays and warning lamps being on as usual before, during, and after the attempted start.

 

Driver and passenger look at one another, ignition off, foot fully down on clutch, try start again and off it goes.

 

I'm presuming this is the microswitch(es) for the "clutch must be pressed for you to start the car" being not quite fully activated.

 

Regards

 

John H

 

* this fabia is a similar age to yours - we've had it since it was 6 months old, and this issue has happened a few times over the years. Probably fewer than10 times in total, only when I'm driving.. AFAIK.

Hi guys,

Could it honestly be a battery issue though? Forgive me if I sound stupid, but I thought a dodgy battery would struggle to start but still attempt some sort of kick over? The delay is dead silent. Oddly enough as if you're turning the switch without the clutch pressed down.  Does that make sense? 

 

However I do believe I press the clutch down fully. It is worth me taking on board and just double checking my foot is down all the way. 

 

But yeah, it's only happening first thing in mornings when the car is left overnight. 

I've not heard of a dodgy battery making zero attempts at some sort of engine kick over. It's dead silence during this delay so surely starter related if not anything else 

2 hours ago, CReese123 said:

I've not heard of a dodgy battery making zero attempts at some sort of engine kick over. It's dead silence during this delay so surely starter related if not anything else 

The battery also powers the 5v supply to all the car's computers and their programs, if the battery is low then these computers and their programs can get very upset and play up in all sorts of ways.  Even if the car starts and the lights seem bright enough it could still be a battery in low state of charge and/or condition.

 

Once you got the car started then the alternator might have raised enough just for enough time to keep the computers happy and their programs functioning which could throw in the red-herring to you.

 

Your problem might not be be the battery but a battery in a low state of charge and/or condition, or poor connects (loose battery posts clamps, other loose or contaminated connections, etc.) will not help the issue and could hinder the fault finding and fault resolution.

 

Never neglect the basics or starting with the basics, you can not successfully progress until you have fully covered the starting basics.

 

Over the next couple of months there will be many problems, breakdown call outs and repairs that will be because of owners not knowing or neglecting the basics of the battery and charging system - don't be one of them.  😉

 

Recharge the battery fully, long low and slow charge off the car is usually better than the quick high fast charge, never use those booster chargers - and/or have the battery properly checked for power and load tested power, some combined chargers can do this or someone with the proper level of scantool can check through the car's computers.

 

Also check for things like too many, or too thick, mats under the clutch pedal or an unsecured mat that has rolled itself to greater thickness.

 

Edited 11 October, 20214 yr by nta16

18 minutes ago, nta16 said:

The battery also powers the 5v supply to all the car's computers and their programs, if the battery is low then these computers and their programs can get very upset and play up in all sorts of ways.  Even if the car starts and the lights seem bright enough it could still be a battery in low state of charge and/or condition.

 

Once you got the car started then the alternator might have raised enough just for enough time to keep the computers happy and their programs functioning which could throw in the red-herring to you.

 

Your problem might not be be the battery but a battery in a low state of charge and/or condition, or poor connects (loose battery posts clamps, other loose or contaminated connections, etc.) will not help the issue and could hinder the fault finding and fault resolution.

 

Never neglect the basics or starting with the basics, you can not successfully progress until you have fully covered the starting basics.

 

Over the next couple of months there will be many problems, breakdown call outs and repairs that will be because of owners not knowing or neglecting the basics of the battery and charging system - don't be one of them.  😉

 

Recharge the battery fully, long low and slow charge off the car is usually better than the quick high fast charge, never use those booster chargers - and/or have the battery properly checked for power and load tested power, some combined chargers can do this or someone with the proper level of scantool can check through the car's computers.

 

Also check for things like too many, or too thick, mats under the clutch pedal or an unsecured mat that has rolled itself to greater thickness.

 

Hi, I'm sure I tested the voltage a few months ago which was normal just out of routine and curiosity. Have a tester/charger in the boot so will double check today and also charge to be on the safe side! Would you recommend changing the ignition switch relay whilst I'm at it? (May be a tenner in Eurocarparts so won't hurt).

Mats are factory provided and slotted in (rubber hard mats), so these won't be an issue.

to add to my comment above, as most of you know, our fabia had a new replacement battery earlier this this year.

this battery is still providing "stop-start", and i haven't had the "BONG!!! battery voltage low, charge by driving" since the battery change.

I take that warning to be the cars way of letting you know the battery isn't as good as it should be.

 

the lack of start first try has happened at least once on the new battery

Edited 11 October, 20214 yr by johnh510
clarification

3 minutes ago, johnh510 said:

to add to my comment above, as most of you know, our fabia had a new replacement battery earlier this this year.

this battery is still providing "stop-start", and i haven't had the "BONG!!! battery voltage low, charge by driving" since the battery change.

the lack of start first try has happened at least once on the new battery

Another note I have, stop-start works perfectly on my car. It's just first thing in the morning I have this silenced delay, so I am at odds and confused with it.

3 hours ago, CReese123 said:

By did nothing I mean no sound of car trying to turn over, no nothing for a long period with the switch turned

 

If this were a Mk1 Fabia I'd suggest looking for wiring  damage in the immediate vicinity of the starter solenoid. Is a common failure on those.  As soon as the insulation gets a crack due to engine movement the weather gets in and turns the copper wire to green dust gradually. Your car seems too young for this to be the explanation, but a visual inspection wouldn't hurt, with a gentle pull-test for good measure.

17 minutes ago, johnh510 said:

to add to my comment above, as most of you know, our fabia had a new replacement battery earlier this this year.

this battery is still providing "stop-start", and i haven't had the "BONG!!! battery voltage low, charge by driving" since the battery change.

I take that warning to be the cars way of letting you know the battery isn't as good as it should be.

 

the lack of start first try has happened at least once on the new battery

Hi, but did you hear the car trying to kick over? My point is that during the delay I experience there's no noise at all, indicating to me it's likely to be starter related.

8 hours ago, CReese123 said:

Hi, I'm sure I tested the voltage a few months ago which was normal just out of routine and curiosity. Have a tester/charger in the boot so will double check today and also charge to be on the safe side!

Always worth checking, a couple of months is a while ago, even if the actual fault isn't the battery to find electrical, computer, starting problems you really need the battery and its connections all in good condition and the battery in a good state of charge.  Volts is good to know but also cranking power and load as volts can soon drop off with demand and starting the car is heavy demand.  (if I've got the strict terms technically wrong I apologise).

 

Do bear in mind the very invasive stop/start system battery management system can be tinkering around to ensure restarts don't wait for dash warning or instructions, they may not be as timely as you'd imagine and that one thing it's trying to ensure is the car restarts even at the expense of other items on the car.

 

 

8 hours ago, CReese123 said:

Would you recommend changing the ignition switch relay whilst I'm at it? (May be a tenner in Eurocarparts so won't hurt).

Personally I wouldn't, you could be replacing a good factory quality part that's working with a cheaper quality replacement and for no good reason but if you don't mind spending a tenner as an experiment to clear your mind then go ahead, if it works it's job done, if not at least you've satisfied your curiosity but do put the factory unit back in if the replacement doesn't cure the issue.  As Wino has put having a look first might show something up, I don't know on the Fabia but some relays don't just pull out for replacement.

 

 

8 hours ago, CReese123 said:

My point is that during the delay I experience there's no noise at all, indicating to me it's likely to be starter related.

Yes but there are many possible reasons for this.  If you have availability to good scan tool, especially if it can do live, then there might be error codes that have yet to trigger warning bells and whistles on the dash.

 

My neighbour has just bought a very comprehensive scan tool and we're trying to learn about the vast amount of information it gives, it's turned up error codes several other systems have missed and codes that haven't resulted in dash warnings, as AFAIK the parameters for putting up a dash warning are far wider than than recording an error code internally.  Unless I've misunderstood a good scan tool could also test your relay and starter from the comfort of the front seats or sitting inside a warm room with a mug of tea if you have the range.

 

One thing I noted with the scan tool was that as soon as it connected to the car before running a scan even at the very top of the screen it shows car battery voltage and that live info remains at the top of the screen.

 

Let us know how you get on and the result(s).  Good luck.

 

3 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Always worth checking, a couple of months is a while ago, even if the actual fault isn't the battery to find electrical, computer, starting problems you really need the battery and its connections all in good condition and the battery in a good state of charge.  Volts is good to know but also cranking power and load as volts can soon drop off with demand and starting the car is heavy demand.  (if I've got the strict terms technically wrong I apologise).

 

Do bear in mind the very invasive stop/start system battery management system can be tinkering around to ensure restarts don't wait for dash warning or instructions, they may not be as timely as you'd imagine and that one thing it's trying to ensure is the car restarts even at the expense of other items on the car.

 

 

Personally I wouldn't, you could be replacing a good factory quality part that's working with a cheaper quality replacement and for no good reason but if you don't mind spending a tenner as an experiment to clear your mind then go ahead, if it works it's job done, if not at least you've satisfied your curiosity but do put the factory unit back in if the replacement doesn't cure the issue.  As Wino has put having a look first might show something up, I don't know on the Fabia but some relays don't just pull out for replacement.

 

 

Yes but there are many possible reasons for this.  If you have availability to good scan tool, especially if it can do live, then there might be error codes that have yet to trigger warning bells and whistles on the dash.

 

My neighbour has just bought a very comprehensive scan tool and we're trying to learn about the vast amount of information it gives, it's turned up error codes several other systems have missed and codes that haven't resulted in dash warnings, as AFAIK the parameters for putting up a dash warning are far wider than than recording an error code internally.  Unless I've misunderstood a good scan tool could also test your relay and starter from the comfort of the front seats or sitting inside a warm room with a mug of tea if you have the range.

 

One thing I noted with the scan tool was that as soon as it connected to the car before running a scan even at the very top of the screen it shows car battery voltage and that live info remains at the top of the screen.

 

Let us know how you get on and the result(s).  Good luck.

 

I purchased the wrong battery today so will be taking it back in the morning. Read online that the AGM battery needs coding once fitted! Surely this ain't the case? Coding for a f***ing battery. I wouldn't know where to start. Do you have any advice on this? I put up a new thread not long ago regarding this. Thought I'd try a new battery but upon reading this tonight I'm so stressed and cannot get my head around it. 

Edited 11 October, 20214 yr by CReese123

5 minutes ago, nta16 said:

Always worth checking, a couple of months is a while ago, even if the actual fault isn't the battery to find electrical, computer, starting problems you really need the battery and its connections all in good condition and the battery in a good state of charge.  Volts is good to know but also cranking power and load as volts can soon drop off with demand and starting the car is heavy demand.  (if I've got the strict terms technically wrong I apologise).

 

Do bear in mind the very invasive stop/start system battery management system can be tinkering around to ensure restarts don't wait for dash warning or instructions, they may not be as timely as you'd imagine and that one thing it's trying to ensure is the car restarts even at the expense of other items on the car.

 

 

Personally I wouldn't, you could be replacing a good factory quality part that's working with a cheaper quality replacement and for no good reason but if you don't mind spending a tenner as an experiment to clear your mind then go ahead, if it works it's job done, if not at least you've satisfied your curiosity but do put the factory unit back in if the replacement doesn't cure the issue.  As Wino has put having a look first might show something up, I don't know on the Fabia but some relays don't just pull out for replacement.

 

 

Yes but there are many possible reasons for this.  If you have availability to good scan tool, especially if it can do live, then there might be error codes that have yet to trigger warning bells and whistles on the dash.

 

My neighbour has just bought a very comprehensive scan tool and we're trying to learn about the vast amount of information it gives, it's turned up error codes several other systems have missed and codes that haven't resulted in dash warnings, as AFAIK the parameters for putting up a dash warning are far wider than than recording an error code internally.  Unless I've misunderstood a good scan tool could also test your relay and starter from the comfort of the front seats or sitting inside a warm room with a mug of tea if you have the range.

 

One thing I noted with the scan tool was that as soon as it connected to the car before running a scan even at the very top of the screen it shows car battery voltage and that live info remains at the top of the screen.

 

Let us know how you get on and the result(s).  Good luck.

 

I also checked all relays and fuses in relation to the starter today... they look unblemished and in perfect condition. 

1 minute ago, CReese123 said:

I purchased the wrong battery today so will be taking it back in the morning. Read online that the AGM battery needs coding once fitted! Surely this ain't the case? Coding for a f***ing battery. I wouldn't know where to start. Do you have any advice on this? I put up a new thread not long ago. 😕

Yes I was just about to answer there, so will do there - and I was the same as you about not know a battery would need coding, not surprised but just as annoyed.  Audi had the idea by making a patent for just about every normal thing on the cars and VAG with their ownd computer programming systems for diagnostics. 

Remember that when the car has sat a while as and you get in the car the fuel primes.  That is the driver's door.  The car had sat using a small amount from the battery. Opening the door uses some and then priming uses some.  Then the ignition on.   No idea why having checked a battery a few months ago had anything to do with checking now.  Now is when the issue was posted. 

Edited 12 October, 20214 yr by e-Roottoot

Your problem is not the battery, ignore the red herrings.

 

Starter solenoid (as per Wino) possibly ignition switch but I doubt it, a good probability that its  the clutch master cylinder reed switch if your vehicle needs the clutch depressing to start, year 2016 I think does have that interlock.

Edited 12 October, 20214 yr by J.R.

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Your problem is not the battery, ignore the red herrings.

 

Starter solenoid (as per Wino) possibly ignition switch but I doubt it, a good probability that its  the clutch master cylinder reed switch if your vehicle needs the clutch depressing to start, year 2016 I think does have that interlock.

I thought the same but highly doubted the solenoid and ignition, purely given the age and low mileage of the car. It did cross my mind regarding the clutch switch, however the car is stop-start and I've had zero issues when out and about in traffic. That's for the battery, the battery is 6 years old (I've not had the car from new and only discovered this yesterday), that's why I'm questioning of the battery. 

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Your problem is not the battery, ignore the red herrings.

The one particular problem probably isn't the battery but the battery is not to be ignored, your confidence is to be admired but not if it's only binary thinking, checking the battery is well charged is always a good idea on any starting or electrical issues diagnostics and essential sometimes otherwise you can't know if it's sorted because the battery is too drained.

 

Binary thinking, is that like always telling people to check their battery even when they have run out of fuel or have a puncture?

 

Still its another one to add to my self awareness list.

28 minutes ago, nta16 said:

The one particular problem probably isn't the battery but the battery is not to be ignored, your confidence is to be admired but not if it's only binary thinking, checking the battery is well charged is always a good idea on any starting or electrical issues diagnostics and essential sometimes otherwise you can't know if it's sorted because the battery is too drained.

 

 

10 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Binary thinking, is that like always telling people to check their battery even when they have run out of fuel or have a puncture?

 

Still its another one to add to my self awareness list.

The other thing that puzzles me though, if the starter solenoid, why would it be restricting itself to first thing in the morning after an overnight park? Throughout the day it's fine. I charged my battery last night and plugged it in the car before going to bed.. woke up and started the car today and the delay was 1 to 2 secs, just a fraction more than fairly instant. Huge improvement over the 5 to 10 secs I experienced the day before. 

@J.R.

Some will just call their nearest or dearest & sit in their car and wait or call the 4 or 5 emergency service when they have a puncture or run out of fuel. 

35 minutes ago, CReese123 said:

The other thing that puzzles me though, if the starter solenoid, why would it be restricting itself to first thing in the morning after an overnight park?

Temperature or moisture/condensation could be a factor if you do have a poor connection.  Have you looked under the bonnet to see if you can eyeball the wire in question, or get a hand/phone camera to it? Just inboard of the battery, and down a bit, near the gearshift mechanism.

 

Grab a multimeter from anyone you know who has one and measure battery voltage first thing, before putting the keys in the ignition.

 

55 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Binary thinking, is that like always telling people to check their battery even when they have run out of fuel or have a puncture?

 

Still its another one to add to my self awareness list.

No, you just off target there, how about changing binary for monochrome on your list.  🙂

 

Put your list up, it might be that you're being too hard on yourself.