5 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Speaks volume about the EV powertrain. It is able to operate across the globe, including up in thin atmosphere and in extreme cold.

 

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/a-nissan-ariya-has-become-first-car-drive-pole-pole

No other car has completed pole to pole.

10 months to cover 18,600 miles.

 

I really like the spec of the Ariya, bit pricey in the UK and I have been waiting for a bigger battery version of the Megane-E which is the Ariya's sister in the Alliance parts sharing scheme.  

 

Megane-e not all models got heat pumps where Zoe does so in winter some Megane-E users not getting any more miles range than I am in my slightly smaller battery.

 

A 75 kWh Megane-E, preferably with lithium Iron Phosphate battery tech would suit me, price under £40k to avoid luxury car tax.

 

Renault has some interesting choices as to go Lithium on some cars, ie performance models of Alpine 290, Renault 5 and other variants. Perhaps do what TESLA have done and try and use LFP in base models now and pure Lithium in performance models.  Not sure if we will see any sodium or other chemistries in 2024.  Should be lots of choice including Dacia Spring coming later in the year to shake the market up.

 

38 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

First car, ICE or EV, to do this North Pole, magnetic north, toa actual south pole....

Change to the 39 inch, tyre radius not rim, no Ev power train mods.......

 

 

 

 

But with the aid of ICE powered generator, thus proving that the electric power train can handle any terrain or temperatures. 

Edited 3 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

6 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

But with the aid of ICE powered generator, thus proving that the electric power plant can handle any terrain or temperatures. 

 

Again you are giving a partial jaundiced view of what actually happened.  The crew had lightweight portable solar panels and wind generators and yes ICE powered generator and I would have taken one or two of those as well as a secondary or tertiary backup when public charging and renewable charging was not enough and as an extra safety feature, nobody wants a Captain Oates scenario. 

A great technical feat  IMO.

 

Edited 3 January, 20242 yr by lol-lol

People say or write stuff then it all gets confusing.

 

Was there a Liquid Fuel Generator used / towed by someone or just the Electricity the generated or used, which were the chargrs were could be from any source.

4 minutes ago, Rooted said:

People say or write stuff then it all gets confusing.

 

Was there a Liquid Fuel Generator used / towed by someone or just the Electricity the generated or used, which were the chargrs were could be from any source.

 

It would have to have been a cappuccino machine for me, could not have coped with just expressos.

 

It must have felt a little like the part of the film the Martian.  

 

Edited 3 January, 20242 yr by lol-lol

No other car has the capability of working in thin atmosphere, Top Gear tried to drive in thin atmosphere and had to do a U turn and drive down to lower altitudes rather quickly as not only were their cars failing but they were themselves as they failed to carry any oxygen with them. Thin atmosphere does affect electric drivetrains, since they don't need any oxygen.

If you are speaking about the one in the Andes then you have fallen for the hyperbole, oxygen would not have been needed only gradual acclimatisation, they dont do anything without a massive support crew including medical personnel because of the great numbers involved, they would likely have carried oxygen.

 

I remember arriving at Quito by bus and walking to my hostel carrying both backpacks, it was relatively steep but I would normally have got up there at a good lick, I enjoy hill climbing, I had to stop for a rest every 50 metres, 2 weeks later after acclimatising at higher altitude on my return I ran up there with my backpack.

13 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Thin atmosphere does affect electric drivetrains, since they don't need any oxygen.

I take it you mean 'doesn't affect electric drivetrains'? Otherwise the lunar rovers would have been completely pointless.

2 hours ago, @Lee said:

I take it you mean 'doesn't affect electric drivetrains'? Otherwise the lunar rovers would have been completely pointless.

Correct, phones predictive text strikes again. 

2 hours ago, J.R. said:

If you are speaking about the one in the Andes then you have fallen for the hyperbole, oxygen would not have been needed only gradual acclimatisation, they dont do anything without a massive support crew including medical personnel because of the great numbers involved, they would likely have carried oxygen.

 

I remember arriving at Quito by bus and walking to my hostel carrying both backpacks, it was relatively steep but I would normally have got up there at a good lick, I enjoy hill climbing, I had to stop for a rest every 50 metres, 2 weeks later after acclimatising at higher altitude on my return I ran up there with my backpack.

Yes, that was the one, I realise the oxygen thing is one of aclimazation, as there are I believe people who live up in the mountains. The cars were struggling to keep going. Didn't they take a viagra tablet to help with the thin atmosphere? 

I thought you were always trumpeting that you had an open mind and were able to see  beyond what was being presented to you as fact.

 

The indegenes have genetic differences enabling them to massively outperform acclimatised outsiders, chewing coca leaves is the best preventative.

Didn't Fiat have a couple of Pandas make it up to base camp on Everest (over 5000m) ?

@J.R.True, I do have an open mind. I think that they chose the mountain route as a shortcut to reach their destination (goal) as they are usually up against some time constraints as part of the challenge?

32 minutes ago, Lady Elanore said:

Didn't Fiat have a couple of Pandas make it up to base camp on Everest (over 5000m) ?

They did indeed and here is the reference.  The Fiat Panda 4x4, 40 years of adventure to the max | Heritage | Stellantis

Edited 3 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

I knew that really, but just wanted to drop a vote of confidence for the ICE, gently, into the mix. 

BMW M cars quoted power (at least once they adopted turbos) was based on hot external temperatures and reasonable altitude (I can't remember what that was, but pretty sure it was at least 2,000m). The idea being that it was most likely the minimum power the engine would produce. Possibly, it's why it has often been said of these turbo motors, that they produce bigger horses than some other makes

There has been talk about the Kia Niro recently here and funnily enough, while scrolling through YT for something to watch (I don't watch TV as its rubbish) and this video caught my eye, well worth a watch as it highlights some points about Kia, the Niro and also their warranty and strange goings-on at their dealer and maybe others as well?

 

 

11 hours ago, Lady Elanore said:

I knew that really, but just wanted to drop a vote of confidence for the ICE, gently, into the mix. 

Has the Panda powertrain been modified for high altitude? 

 

Could a single powertrain (engine, gearing, clutch, etc) configuration be used across the entire pole to pole journey? Just as the EV powertrain had achieved. 

 

We can make amazing machines for single specific purposes, no doubt about it. The key here is that EV powertrain tech is able to do it from the factory and without needing modifications for the specific environment. 

12 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

@J.R.True, I do have an open mind. I think that they chose the mountain route as a shortcut to reach their destination (goal) as they are usually up against some time constraints as part of the challenge?

 

Surely you dont buy into all that rubbish especially the "challenge" and "time constraints"? No way would the BBC put any risk on their cosseted presenters despite what the editing would have you believe especially sending them to altitude anything other then very very slowly.

 

As for needing oxygen even those who reached the altitude record in the Panda did not need or use it, were the top gear team trekking they may have seen some benefit from it but not sat in a motorised vehicle and it certainly was not a medical necessity.

 

I climbed to within 150m of the summit of Cotapaxi (5897m), I was not in as good a physical condition then as I am now 20 years later, our group was forced to turn back due to the weather not through needing oxygen, none was carried by any climbers, the medical tent at base camp had it to reduce the effects of altitude sickness for those foolish enough to come up to that height too quickly, I had been at altitude for weeks.

We need a thread on Pacemakers or Iron Lungs.

 

 

 

 

 

@J.R.Maybe it was staged by the BBC but the main point I was making was that they claimed that their cars, especially R. Hs. car was not able to go any further because it lacked air (oxygen) to provide enough power to climb higher. Which I thought might explain why no car has ever done a  pole to pole expedition before and hence why the EV was able to do it, not needing oxygen for the motive power unlike a ICE vehicle does. That was it, pure and simple. 

 

 

Edited 4 January, 20242 yr by Graham Butcher

4 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Has the Panda powertrain been modified for high altitude? 

 

Could a single powertrain (engine, gearing, clutch, etc) configuration be used across the entire pole to pole journey? Just as the EV powertrain had achieved. 

 

We can make amazing machines for single specific purposes, no doubt about it. The key here is that EV powertrain tech is able to do it from the factory and without needing modifications for the specific environment. 

The car might have had a mod to run on low quality fuel (I remember that being an issue) but I doubt they could do much else apart from beef up the underside and equip the car with sensible editions for an expedition. It's a very basic car  

 

I've driven the original and it is genuinely surprising off-road. There is no centre diff, so it's 4wd can only be engaged on truly loose surface, much like an old school off-roader. Brilliant (and light), little car.

Found this in the Westmorland gazette

 

Finally, two Panda 4x4s set out from Kathmandu to drive through the Himalayas to the Mount Everest advance base camp, sited at an altitude of 5,200 metres. This was the first time that a small off-road vehicle achieved this goal, a feat made all the more remarkable by the absence of any modification to the standard Panda 4x4, except minor engine control unit adaptations appropriate for the quality of local fuel.

This must be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  Or kind of true.