@Graham Butcher We have all the flash stuff about up here, but maybe it takes Celts to know the price of stuff and the value of them.

@Ootohere I think you really mean it takes the Irish to know the price of stuff and value them, surely?🫢ŠKODA launch new wedding car campaign - The Avondhu Newspaper

This is just a very clever and old advertising shunt by Skoda (2016).

Now this is what real luxury looks like down here, not decrying the Superb L&K for a minute (that's what mine is) but it is no where near the same league.

Stretched Mercedes Benz.

Daimler 420S

Edited 6 July, 20256 Jul by Graham Butcher

No @Graham Butcher Not if the same class or style as some Old Classics and some Limos, or like the Gangster Funeral in Glasgow a couple of days ago Silver Mercs and Blacked out window SUV,s.

But then not everyone is flash with a Registry Office wedding. Or a simple funeral when all they want is a Taxi / Large Family car for an hour or 3.

Point being, it happens. You rich Southerners are there showing your money, looking at buying MPV,s with a high seat and roof.

'Just get a TESLA', For Weddings & Funerals as well. Quiet and no fumes.

Maybe not get a Cremation though. Defeats the Carbon Neutral.

Edited 6 July, 20256 Jul by Ootohere

Yeah, a cremation is indeed anti net zero, now you're taking me back on a memory trip back to the time when I designed a automated cremator control panel, built 7 of them, wrote all the software for the controls and installed them all in the City of London Crematorium.

Edited 6 July, 20256 Jul by Graham Butcher

The truth about EV is that, once built, they can continuously work independently from any geopolitical influence.

(I see petrol/diesel prices are on the rise again)

Case in point, Tesla recently opened 168 charging stall supercharger in California that is entirely off-grid. 100% renewable solar powered.

https://imformati.com/news/395

At the heart of the station is a massive 11 MW solar array, spread across 30 acres of ground and canopy-mounted panels. Tesla has equipped the site with 10 Megapack batteries, each offering 39 MWh of storage, allowing the station to operate entirely independently from the grid.

This setup gives the station the capacity to charge up to 1,000 electric vehicles per day, even after sunset, assuming typical usage patterns and solar generation hours.

6 hours ago, wyx087 said:

The truth about EV is that, once built, they can continuously work independently from any geopolitical influence.

(I see petrol/diesel prices are on the rise again)

Case in point, Tesla recently opened 168 charging stall supercharger in California that is entirely off-grid. 100% renewable solar powered.

https://imformati.com/news/395

Something some of us are even planning for our own homes.

I am really just at the testing stage with my 2 Axis solar array and I am looking to scale up my battery storage and get a EV charger than can use the battery energy to power up what will soon be our fleet of 3 EVs, Mini, Scenic and Zoe/ R4 probably replacing the Zoe. Having 7 kw charger from the batteries or even a 3 phase charger running off the batteries as the Renaults can take 11 to 22 kw AC charging. The pace of technical advancement, month on month, year on year on all this related tech is considerable. Solar panels which are bifocal, efficiencies improving, costs falling. Same with batteries and inverter spec and cost. Self funding as it saves money on electricity usage using free sunshine. Hopefully soon the perovskite panels which will double efficiency, harvest the high energy shorter wavelength light will reduce the need of land use and these canopy solar setups, like my 2 axis solar tracker means the land below can be used and the solar array provides so useful shade... I can see my solar array, tempered to add a second one, could produce 4 kws plus per array at peak times with the right panels ie nine 440 w bifacial panels per array. Think I am going to need bigger solar invertors !

And I can take them with me when I move as well as the wheelable battery units like the Anker F3800.....

Down to les than £2,499 now. Lack of transfer switch, home panel, on UK version is sad but if one has alternate low voltage lighting and power to fridge, TV etc then would still be very useful item to have and provide time shifting of power so one does not have to pay Day time lecky.

Edited 7 July, 20257 Jul by lol-lol

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Something some of us are even planning for our own homes.

Indeed. Even with my 10 years old small 2.9 kW-p W-E array. I am still mostly self sufficient during sunny days. That includes all home use and local driving.

EV batteries and stationary batteries are the enabler for self reliance cheap renewables.

The only reason fossil fuel are affordable today is because of many decades of subsidies.

Fossil fuel still get 1 to 7 trillion subsidies (depend on method of calculation).

Our World in Data

How much in subsidies do fossil fuels receive?

Estimates range from less than $1 trillion to $7 trillion. Where do these numbers come from?

Take away implicit subsidies there's still 1 trillion explicit subsidies paid directly to use and supply fossil fuel.

How much would it cost to use fossil fuel if that 1 trillion isn't there?

How much would it cost to use fossil fuel if the real cost of using this fuel (6 trillion) were levied?

Yes, explicit includes stuff like UK's winter fuel allowance. But wouldn't it be better to use those winter fuel allowance money to better insulate people's home?

"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day; If you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

Circling back, the reason I posted about subsidies is because the source article from the link I provided talked about US recent bill is removing incentives for energy project like the off-grid charging hub.

It is just money.

The Government takes and the Government gives back and there are so many on the gravy train they forget it is the peoples money.

Edited 7 July, 20257 Jul by Ootohere

True cost of ownership from real world, compared against an extremely optimistically costed theoretical diesel.

EV is £15k cheaper over 3 years 172k miles, the battery is still on 89% state of health.

Remember that Jag IPace driver who claimed the car was not responding?

“Following an extensive investigation, we have charged Nathan Owen, 32, of The Grove, Prestatyn, North Wales, with dangerous driving, causing a public nuisance and two counts of fraud by false representation.”

Source:

The Standard

Driver of 100mph ‘rogue’ electric car charged with drivin...

Nathan Owen said a fault in his Jaguar I-Pace left him without brakes at 100mph on the motorway.

2 hours ago, wyx087 said:

True cost of ownership from real world, compared against an extremely optimistically costed theoretical diesel.

EV is £15k cheaper over 3 years 172k miles, the battery is still on 89% state of health.

A plasterer that lives near me is fully made up with his Citroen e-Dispatch van. He reckons it will cost him £20k less over 4 years than his previous Transit.

42 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

A plasterer that lives near me is fully made up with his Citroen e-Dispatch van. He reckons it will cost him £20k less over 4 years than his previous Transit.

This is obviously based upon him being able to get a full charge at home each day and not using public chargers?

Not necessarily Full Charges, or at home. He might have a Workshop / Lock up and power.

Tax benefits, grants as well. PIVG / The Plug in Van Grant.

But if the £20,000 more was all on Diesel & VED then the van is a high annual mileage one so there is lots of charging of the electric Van needed.

They come in 50 kW or 75 kW battery sizes. Real world the big battery might do 170 miles but not WLTP 200+ on a full charge.

The 50 kW in a car can struggle to do anything like the 150 miles and workies tell me 100 miles is at a push.

15 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

This is obviously based upon him being able to get a full charge at home each day and not using public chargers?

It probably is. So what? You buy / lease what works best for you.

1 minute ago, Luckypants said:

It probably is. So what? You buy / lease what works best for you.

Completely agree, however, just lobbing the £20k in there without some sort of qualification is less then ideal as the actual cost of leccy can vary from a few pence to the best part of a £1 depending where you charge and if home at home/work the actual tariff also matters as not everyone would be able to match it.

Fair enough. For further clarity, his van is a 23-plate and he's been running it for a couple of years. The savings are based on what he is paying now compared to his previous Transit van. I think he is on a cheap tariff as he mentioned his smart meter. He has also installed solar and battery (for the same reason as me, frequent power cuts) but I don't know if he counts solar charging as 'free'. He took an EV van as a commercial decision, not through any desire to save the planet. His car is an 'environmentally friendly' VW Touareg.

2 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Completely agree, however, just lobbing the £20k in there without some sort of qualification is less then ideal as the actual cost of leccy can vary from a few pence to the best part of a £1 depending where you charge and if home at home/work the actual tariff also matters as not everyone would be able to match it.

For most people, an overnight charge on a domestic EV charge costs around £3 and gives about 200 miles. (Ballpark figures)

If you use a public charger will be around 10-13 times that, £30-40 as they are typically 65p - 90p per kw/h

For fossil fuel cars, 200 miles likely to be half a tank of fuel, also around £30-£40

Reality is, if don't have access to charger at home or work, then probably going to not save anything with an electric car.

But if you drive say 10k miles per year and have a charger, likely to be paying nearer £150 in electricity per year, rather than £1150 per year in fuel, saving £1000 per year.

Actual real world, if in 7 hour @ 6.7 pence a kWh or now 6.2 pence you get 50 kWh.

The works van is not getting 200 mile, 4 miles to a kWh.

But its all just man mans. (Balls in the park.)

Edinburgh City Council had Contractors having to have Electric Vans.

Going home and coming into work might need the employees having to charge before work started or they were into the city.

50 kW or 75 kW battery vans. It was OK when charging was free, then there was time limits and penalties, then 45 pence a kWh & now 62 pence.

Workers / Couriers etc needed sometimes more than a 40 minutes charge and they just took as long as they needed.

50 kW max chargers.

It was and is a p!$$ take, and getting worse.

South Ayrshire minimum £5 charge and now 70 pence a kWh. 60 Minutes Max charge time.

50 kWh @ 70 pence is £35.00 for 170 mile, 200 miles if you are doing well.

£35.00 is 25 litres of diesel at 140 pence a litre.

25 litres = 5.5 gallons. x 35 mpg is 192.5 miles.

VAT claimed back on Public Charging.

But if paying 89 pence a kWh still bl00dy expensive.

PS.

Standard Tariff, maybe Customer charger used or 3 pin lead.

10 x 30 pence a kWh, £3.00

for 35-40 miles.

Edited 8 July, 20258 Jul by Ootohere

new Kia to tempt sportage drivers to go ev

New price

Sold for £20,600 after 2 month

1st registered 07/05/25

Edited 11 July, 202511 Jul by Stonekeeper

On 08/07/2025 at 11:48, Stonekeeper said:

new Kia to tempt sportage drivers to go ev

It might well do that, as it seems that the Sportage engines are having some serious problems and Kia are trying to cover it up but Geoff buys Cars has found out about and I have done digging on the web sites and it is all true.

3 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

It might well do that, as it seems that the Sportage engines are having some serious problems and Kia are trying to cover it up but Geoff buys Cars has found out about and I have done digging on the web sites and it is all true.

Wrong thread.

This thread is about electric cars not hybrids.

Hybrids have two whole propulsion systems, twice as much to go wrong.

Be glad to see the back of the Clio hybrid this week and we will have 3 pure BEVs, hurray.

6 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Wrong thread.

This thread is about electric cars not hybrids.

Hybrids have two whole propulsion systems, twice as much to go wrong.

Be glad to see the back of the Clio hybrid this week and we will have 3 pure BEVs, hurray.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that a BEV is less complicated, because it isn't. It simply has less moving parts, but many thousands more parts to make the car actually move and control it. It's just a different type of complication which will manifest itself in the fullness of time.