6 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Because something carries the CE mark, it does not mean that it is either high quality or is actually really approved by the authorities in the country it's sold in. It is just a sign that the manufacturer has self assessed their own product.

Organisations like Amazon ensure that they sell items of good quality for the sake of their long term business.

Their are sales platforms were goods of dubious quality, perhaps Temu is one of those and Amazon Haul, their apparent response to Temu, the prices are so low then "Buyer beware" might apply.

I have been over delivered on quality for incredibly low prices on goods from China 🇨🇳 and studied Asian Pacific politics and economics with the OU and seen China trade's rapid progress in volume and quality and they do sometimes sell at below the price that even the Chinese consumer can buy hence, when the UK was in the EU, Anti Dumping, counteracting etc duties were levied on Chinese origin goods.

This is most evident in Chinese EVs imports but since UK left EU they have levied ADD but UK has not hence the massive level of Chinese EV imports even with our steering wheels on the other side !

If you think that Amazon only sell high quality items, no dodgy or fake stuff etc, then you would be wrong, they can be duped like anyone else. Not everything sold on Amazon is actually "sold" by them, they can and do operate like Aliexpress etc and be a shop window for either suppliers, they even ship from Amazon warehouses etc but you not buying from Amazon.

The UK is going to gift the Ukraine many millions more £, (210 Million of Export Finance Support) and nuclear fuel in the form of enriched uranium. apparently this is 'going to directly support thousands of skilled British manufacturing and supply chain jobs.' "The multi-year deal sustaining operations at vital processing facilities in North West England." I smell BS. Lies and untruths. But good to see just how easy it is for the UK to produce Enriched Uranium. The UK is so very wealthy, and energy & resources rich. Maybe it can sort out water companies in England and get building new infrastructure, not just bail them out. The National Grid actually fit for purpose and owned by the UK nations would be an actual move forward for Energy Security in the UK. PS, Depleted Uranium, was being moved from Dounreay to China then that was stopped and it was being flown out from Wick to the USA. That is 'highly-enriched uranium ( HEU) Also materials moved by road and then rail to Sellafield.

Edited 16 June16 Jun by Evolution13

5 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

If you think that Amazon only sell high quality items, no dodgy or fake stuff etc, then you would be wrong, they can be duped like anyone else. Not everything sold on Amazon is actually "sold" by them, they can and do operate like Aliexpress etc and be a shop window for either suppliers, they even ship from Amazon warehouses etc but you not buying from Amazon.

Always do my research both in the spec and the reviews on the Amazon site and then find reviews on YouTube.

All purchases on Amazon, and a recent one directly with large power bank maker VTOMAN, the products have exceeded my expectations in quality and value. Taking one apart recently one could not help but be impressed at the biuld quality.

20 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Always do my research both in the spec and the reviews on the Amazon site and then find reviews on YouTube.

All purchases on Amazon, and a recent one directly with large power bank maker VTOMAN, the products have exceeded my expectations in quality and value. Taking one apart recently one could not help but be impressed at the biuld quality.

I do that as well, how ever, the specs are often not correct and the reviews are very often for similar products, and you often see the product that is being reviewed is not the same as the product on offer. I have purchased items from the Amazon site and it arrives packed the same they do from Temu etc and the have been identical. Infact I have just cancelled 2 orders on Amazon that were ordered end of April, delivery put back to 16th June, now further pushed back to 2nd week July. Why, because Amazon only acted as the order point, delivery direct from China. Same item cheaper if buying direct from Temu.

1 minute ago, Graham Butcher said:

I do that as well, how ever, the specs are often not correct and the reviews are very often for similar products, and you often see the product that is being reviewed is not the same as the product on offer. I have purchased items from the Amazon site and it arrives packed the same they do from Temu etc and the have been identical. Infact I have just cancelled 2 orders on Amazon that were ordered end of April, delivery put back to 16th June, now further pushed back to 2nd week July. Why, because Amazon only acted as the order point, delivery direct from China. Same item cheaper if buying direct from Temu.

Not sure when the date is exactly but all these shipments ie postal imports as simplified procedures, are coming under new regs so will be much more expensive soon due to revisions in import procedures. Many Western countries have done or are implementing this and thus will choke off billions of USD, Yuan, £, € etc of trade for China. Be interesting to see what China does next. In addition to collecting more import taxes there can be tighter control by Trading Standards who's responsibility goods meeting CE UK is. We should be a bit safer as well as collecting more taxes but landed cost to us consumers will be more ofcourse.

Edited 16 June16 Jun by lol-lol

Tesla is having some delivery issues in the UK, as in this video. The sales centres are full of cars, but none are being delivered. I can't find anything from Tesla about this, but it is suggested by many that it is due to an issue with the DVLA not accepting the documentation.

It is mentioned in this video about Blue Water shopping carpark being used a holding area for the cars that are not being delivered. The second video actually confirms this to be and the video was filmed at Blue Water.

Here the Skoda Epiq is constructed.

Another diamond, Alpine A390, of a performance EV to join Ionic 5N etc.

The Alpine A110 ev version also arriving, replacing the rapid A110 ICE car, A110 EV will be at Goodwood FoS....

Edited 21 June21 Jun by lol-lol

EU is finalising measures to introduce Countervailing on hybrid vehicles from China similar to that which they already levy on full EVs.

If the UK does not follow suit which it did not with EVs the presumably the Chinese will focus more on the UK as it will be an easier market to the UK.

I just read Mat Watson's review of the new MG S9. (PHEV) 'German quality, Chinese price.' I hope they are doing better than many products that there are from German Manufacturers these days.

Germany is struggling to keep the car industry afloat.

21 hours ago, Graham Butcher said:

Germany is struggling to keep the car industry afloat.

The Polo ID looks a really good cars as with the Cupra and Skoda siblings, they will steal sales from the Renault 5 etc as they are much better in some areas.

But most other models ie the lower ID range have been fraught with problems. The Chinese are streaking ahead and very difficult to see how they can compete but Renault, Dacia, Alpine has shown it is possible to grow market sector even against the Chinese onslaught. The new import levies on Hybrids as well as EVs should give them a bit more of a chance.

Well we have entered strange times with charging EVs particularly with those of use who use Agile, Tracker small slot differing charging cost pricing.

Been bad enough today, lowest slot price 16p per KWH but highest price, 1830 to 1900, 61p per kwh. Octopus offered out 24 p per kwh for those of use who use less than normal so I will see if I get much back for that bust I tend not to use much electricity then as I a mostly on batteries and solar then. No really good slots to charge the car. Tomorrow Octopus Agile slot prices about 15 p per KWh mid day but at 2100 to 2130 80.5 p per KWh, ouch. Must be a real shortage from 1700 to 2300 for such high prices. Again will not be using car charging in the evening but might do as bit in the middle of the day.

I think many who do not use Time of Use Tariffs may be surprised just how expensive electricity is at peak times and when the UK Grid, and European Grid, is under strain. It is clear that Europe will need to quickly adapt to having air conditioning which will it big time pressure on our Grid, probably far more than EVs which can be very selective as to when and how much they charge.

We might be in a place, albeit briefly, that public charging is cheaper than charging at home for those of us on Agile and Tracker tariffs.

Interesting Octopus and Greg Jackson had a massive 4,000 person summit in London and announced a big roll out of small,, large and EV using battery kit for homes. With role oou of big battery facilities seeming to take ages it looks like it is down to the individual to help solve the problems of all this wind power coming on line and available for free or less than free rather than leaving it to businesses, councils, government which are slow to act unlike main over countries in the world from Australia, China and numerous others.

^^^ Of no interest or relevance to many if not all BEV / PHEV drivers without home charging availability.

4 minutes ago, Evolution13 said:

^^^ Of no interest or relevance to many if not all BEV / PHEV drivers without home charging availability.

I have been trialilng charging my EVs from the home batteries and as Greg said anybody can have " Balcony Solar" and small home batteries. I t ink there is a lot of junk talked about lot being allowed to have small home batteries. Yes Powerwall type set ups fair enough but people have recharge torches, radios and al sorts of devices and probably most homes already have numerous lithium batteries in them and small home batteries are the safer Lithium Iron Phosphate type.

I am looking at trickle charge the EVs, lowest charge I have goes down to 8A 220/240 V and i wanted to start with a 6A really but did not see that when I got a variable amperage granny charger. If linked to balcony solar and a smallish home battery I think one could put in a meaningful amount of electricity in to ones EV, or house, or both.

If Octopus and CATL are on the case then it will happen and as Greg said it is looking like a financial recovered time of 24 to 36 month !

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

I have been trialilng charging my EVs from the home batteries and as Greg said anybody can have " Balcony Solar" and small home batteries. I t ink there is a lot of junk talked about lot being allowed to have small home batteries. Yes Powerwall type set ups fair enough but people have recharge torches, radios and al sorts of devices and probably most homes already have numerous lithium batteries in them and small home batteries are the safer Lithium Iron Phosphate type.

I am looking at trickle charge the EVs, lowest charge I have goes down to 8A 220/240 V and i wanted to start with a 6A really but did not see that when I got a variable amperage granny charger. If linked to balcony solar and a smallish home battery I think one could put in a meaningful amount of electricity in to ones EV, or house, or both.

If Octopus and CATL are on the case then it will happen and as Greg said it is looking like a financial recovered time of 24 to 36 month !

@lol-lol The real issue with home storage batteries is the amount of energy they store is considerably higher per battery than all of your rechargeable torches, phones, laptops, tablets, etc. put together. This is why those with cars that are the subjects of safety recalls are often instructed to limit the amount of charge they hold and not to park or charge in a garage, underground car park or even near to other structures.

The other devices you mention all store considerably less energy, and God forbid that they should catch fire; they will and do present a far lower threat level. Think of the stored energy as being tanks of petrol. Then think about a Zippo cigarette lighter, which typically holds around 8 ml of petrol/lighter fuel compared to a 1996 Renault 5 petrol car holding up to 43 litres of petrol; that is 5,375 times the amount of energy in a Zippo lighter, so which one would you think is going to be most dangerous in a fire?

Would you store 43 litres of petrol inside your house?

As to the balcony solar arrays you keep on about, forget what Milliband wants; they are highly likely to never be on sale here in the UK and hence would be illegal in the UK. The electrical industry is fighting them and citing them as being possibly dangerous and possibly deadly. They are not currently approved by the BSI, and in Milliband's desperation to make this happen, he has had a specification document written by the government, who are NOT qualified electrical experts.

The insurance industry itself would more than likely also NOT honour any claim for any damage on property where these devices are installed / in use. So again, are you happy to shoulder the consequences? Should anything happen and your house be destroyed and maybe neighbours suffer as well if anything did happen and the insurance company dismissed any claim?

Councils / Local Authorities banned Portable Bottled Gas fires in their properties decades ago. many issues with those, CO, Condensation, damp etc, as well as the fire risk. Storage batteries of different types / chemistry would be restricted, location requirements, proper ventilation, etc. No way can it be left as a free for all and do as you wish. Fire / Emergency services are concerned enough about e-bike / e-scooter fires with them being stored or charged in homes.

When you realise that an e-scooter battery actually has around 10 times the energy in it that a normal laptop battery does, you can understand the fire/emergency services being highly concerned about where these are being stored and charged.

1 hour ago, Graham Butcher said:

When you realise that an e-scooter battery actually has around 10 times the energy in it that a normal laptop battery does, you can understand the fire/emergency services being highly concerned about where these are being stored and charged.

My e scooter has three 7 Ah 12v batteries so 21 Ah so by my maths that is 76 KJoules. But I could charge them outside if I had any concern.

CAA say 100 Wh, or 2 grams of lithium, or to say 360 KJoules which sounds quite a lot. Even then the battery should be in safe packaging and have the terminals taped over.

We do need to think about external storage and fire suppression measures. I see a small BESS burnt down in Exeter which is being investigated.

No hint of any problems with my batteries or EVs.

18 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

We do need to think about external storage and fire suppression measures. I see a small BESS burnt down in Exeter which is being investigated.

No hint of any problems with my batteries or EVs.

Correct, we do, but currently there is no effective way of dealing with a battery fire other than to let it burn out, and then, once the chemical reaction has ceased, it can be extinguished like any normal fire. By that time the damage has been done, and very little of the car or whatever remains is likely to be a total loss.

There is never any sign of any problems with most batteries, EVs or e-scooters right up to the time that the problem makes itself evident by the off-gassing and jets of flames coming from them. Remember, they reside inside sealed chambers and are perfectly hidden out of sight. The jets of flames are the result of the build-up of gas within that sealed chamber, which then finds any weak spots in the chamber's construction and escapes, all of which add to the danger.

3 minutes ago, Graham Butcher said:

Correct, we do, but currently there is no effective way of dealing with a battery fire other than to let it burn out, and then, once the chemical reaction has ceased, it can be extinguished like any normal fire. By that time the damage has been done, and very little of the car or whatever remains is likely to be a total loss.

There is never any sign of any problems with most batteries, EVs or e-scooters right up to the time that the problem makes itself evident by the off-gassing and jets of flames coming from them. Remember, they reside inside sealed chambers and are perfectly hidden out of sight. The jets of flames are the result of the build-up of gas within that sealed chamber, which then finds any weak spots in the chamber's construction and escapes, all of which add to the danger.

Which is why my Scenic has a input port for fireman to fill each battery pack, all 186 of, with foam I presume which will slow the fire. I have seen the large fire blankets work very well but think it needs to work with appropriate foam injection to slow and even stop the chemical fire. Technology always improves and as EVs and home batteries become even more prevalent tge fire fighting techniques will improve in leaps and bounds.

1 hour ago, lol-lol said:

My e scooter has three 7 Ah 12v batteries so 21 Ah so by my maths that is 76 KJoules. But I could charge them outside if I had any concern.

Do you know what cells those batteries are using?

Do you know what cells those batteries are using?

---

Originally Lead acid but they were incredibly heavy so changed them to lithium iron phosphate which reduced the weight by about 10 kgs.

49 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Which is why my Scenic has a input port for fireman to fill each battery pack, all 186 of, with foam I presume which will slow the fire. I have seen the large fire blankets work very well but think it needs to work with appropriate foam injection to slow and even stop the chemical fire. Technology always improves and as EVs and home batteries become even more prevalent tge fire fighting techniques will improve in leaps and bounds.

Let's be realistic here, shall we?

Firstly, those fireman ports are only good if the fireman is actually standing there by the car when the battery enters thermal runaway. It also assumes that he has all the equipment ready, prepared to gain access to that port which is located directly on top of the battery pack, which presumably means it is located beneath the rear seat squab. It also assumes that the hose is already there and the pump is running.

Meaning that he has to get into the car first and then remove the seat squab and puncture the sealed port.

That is never going to happen anywhere other than in typical demonstrations of what could be done.

The following is an extract from a Renault document.

The "Fireman Access" port on a Renault Scenic is a specialized safety feature on the electric versions of the car (such as the E-Tech) designed to allow firefighters to flood the battery compartment and stop thermal runaway in minutes.

It is typically integrated directly into the top of the high-voltage battery casing. Under normal circumstances, it is completely sealed and hidden. In the event of an emergency, firefighters use the pressure of a high-power water hose to rupture a specialized disc on the casing, which gives them direct access to spray water onto the battery cells.

A video made by Renault follows lower down, which shows water and not foam. Water cools down the thermal runaway (assuming the points I raise above; in reality, it is going to take the firefighters, at best, many minutes to arrive at the scene of an EV in thermal runaway, at which point the entire car will be engulfed in flames, so there is no way they are going to be able to do what they show in the video. Fire blankets also do not put out the fire; they help prevent it spreading to surrounding cars, etc. That is all. And this again relies on the firefighters already being present at the moment the battery becomes a problem.

Currently, at this moment in time, anything else is just not possible, and anyone believing anything else is burying their head in the sand and denying the truth.

Edited 24 June24 Jun by Graham Butcher