Hi all, the ignition key in my 2008 Octavia estate won't turn. It's not the steering lock, appears to be barrel failure. We tried a lubricant and wiggling the key, and also tapping gently to try and get it to engage, but it won't. It turns just a little to the radio on position, but is solid after that. Skoda want £74 to replace the barrel with one cut to match the keys, but it takes 6-8 weeks as it is cut overseas. I need the car for work this week, and it's stuck outside a friends house a mile from home. There are secondhand ones available but I would rather have new. I have found one new on eBay, should I strip the old one off and check the number on the side before I order it? Failing that, can anyone point me at an online dealer who is guaranteed to send the correct item?

Now looking at the one for sale on eBay, if I install the new lock, does it need to be paired with the car (immobiliser I mean), or is it plug and play as the barrel comes with it's own keys? Thanks.

A guy at work had the exact same problem with his similar aged VW Scirocco.  Apparently there are 3 parts to the lock - The Key Barrel; The Steering Lock and the actual Ignition Switch. He was lucky as I think it was just the switch that was broken so the replacement was a lot cheaper and he didn't have to wait for two weeks for the part to come from Germany (none in this country at the time).

 

It's worth getting a garage to look at it before you start changing parts.  He was able to keep his same keys etc.

1 hour ago, beth93 said:

does it need to be paired with the car (immobiliser I mean)

Yes, because the immobiliser will check that the key is the right one for that car. There is a work around when you have 2 sets of barrels and keys, and that's to swap the blades from the existing barrels into  the new plips before putting them into the new barrels for the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIEs6stQ5mk

3 minutes ago, MicMac said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIEs6stQ5mk

Tried lube, still no joy.

Not sure if you mean blades from the key fob?

9 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Yes, because the immobiliser will check that the key is the right one for that car. There is a work around when you have 2 sets of barrels and keys, and that's to swap the blades from the existing barrels into  the new plips before putting them into the new barrels for the first time.

Do you mean swap blades from key fob?

24 minutes ago, beth93 said:

Do you mean swap blades from key fob?

Yes, so the existing blade, which matches the door and lock barrels, gets the old plip, which matches the 2 parts of the immobiliser. Or did you mean that you're replacing the barrel with the keyway in it rather than the cylinder and ignition switch?

2 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Yes, so the existing blade, which matches the door and lock barrels, gets the old plip, which matches the 2 parts of the immobiliser. Or did you mean that you're replacing the barrel with the keyway in it rather than the cylinder and ignition switch?

Well I'm not sure, when I say barrel I don't mean the outer bit that the ignition module fits to, rather the actual barrel part that the key slides into as that is what I assume is broken. Just went up the road to try again, still no joy. And the unlock bit on the remote doesn't work so the blasted alarm goes off until I open the boot with the remote! 

And on reading on the 'net about how to change the barrel inner using a paperclip assumes that you can move the key to the 'on' position in the first place- aargh!!!

20 minutes ago, beth93 said:

when I say barrel I don't mean the outer bit that the ignition module fits to, rather the actual barrel part that the key slides into as that is what I assume is broken

Ahh, you're replacing the lock cylinder, not the barrel. This is a case where getting the terminology exact honestly does help. Well, at that rate you either need to get a new ignition cylinder made to match your existing key blades, or get the door locks to go with the other parts you've ordered, or you finish up needing different key blades for the doors and ignition.

16 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Ahh, you're replacing the lock cylinder, not the barrel. This is a case where getting the terminology exact honestly does help. Well, at that rate you either need to get a new ignition cylinder made to match your existing key blades, or get the door locks to go with the other parts you've ordered, or you finish up needing different key blades for the doors and ignition.

Haven't ordered anything yet, car still up the road and more bothered about getting it home first. As there are different part numbers for the locks that I've seen, don't want to spend £100 ordering one that turns out to be wrong. Have tried calling local Auto locksmiths, but so far the one I have called say they don't deal with the ignition switch. And the local auto electrician , (who is very good, I've used him before), doesn't touch the ignition switch as it's a lock...........

Have a look and scan through the comments.

 

It's suggested to remove key blade, insert it into lock and use pliers for more leverage-use caution to prevent breaking the blade.  Once you can turn it, align the holes, stick in a straightened paper clip and remove the cylinder assembly.  Disassemble and clean as required, any broken parts causing the jam can be omitted on reassembly and usually the lock will still function.

 

Just saying.

 

 

20 minutes ago, MicMac said:

use pliers for more leverage-use caution to prevent breaking the blade.  Once you can turn it, 

 

Just saying.

 

I appreciate it, but we have a spare blade and tried pliers, it won't budge. I honestly think if I try harder then it will simply snap off. But I will try again later. Thanks for posting the video.

Are you forcibly turning the steering wheel repeatedly left and right from stop to stop whilst simultaneously trying to turn the key?

20 minutes ago, MicMac said:

Are you forcibly turning the steering wheel repeatedly left and right from stop to stop whilst simultaneously trying to turn the key?

Turning it yes, but not stop to stop, it's very stiff.

1 hour ago, beth93 said:

Turning it yes, but not stop to stop, it's very stiff.

OK, serious question. How far can the steering wheel be moved atm (guess is good enough, but answer in degrees or radians (or milliradians) not cm or inches). This will help me tell which part(s) are jammed.

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

OK, serious question. How far can the steering wheel be moved atm (guess is good enough, but answer in degrees or radians (or milliradians) not cm or inches). This will help me tell which part(s) are jammed.

Right, just went up there, a bit of a nightmare in the dark on the edge of a busy road, but I gave it a go. The wheel turns nearly twice lock to lock I would say, so 600/700 odd degrees. The steering lock does not engage.

In fact, I'm thinking we might try pushing it the 1/4 mile home tomorrow morning, but we live at the bottom of a sharp hill. Is the handbrake a cable job? I rang the local garage, but they don't have a towing dolly or flat bed.

I had expected approximately ~45 degrees if the steering lock was engaged which is why I was suggesting the move to try freeing something.

 

Sounds like the cylinder is indeed jammed.

 

insert key blade 95% of the way and give it a sharp bang straight inwards (hammer blow) whilst applying a gentle clockwise pressure.  I'm sure I saw it free a jammed lock on an car of comparable age where the key was worn, it's the same concept as a Newton's Cradle or bump key.

Edited 13 December, 20214 yr by MicMac

3 minutes ago, MicMac said:

insert key blade and give it a sharp bang straight inwards (hammer blow) I'm sure I saw it free a jammed lock on an car of comparable age where the key was worn.

Yep, tried that too! I'll try to get the car home tomorrow and then at least I can strip down the ignition lock and see what's what. I'll keep you posted with what I find.

Do you know if the handbrake will work just as well with a dead engine and on a hill?

You get the idea.

 

 

 

 

If you have a standard mechanical lever handbrake it will work as before, a push button parking brake... I can't say but I'd be concerned the steering lock engaged at the worst possible location leaving you in a right pickle.

 

Edited 13 December, 20214 yr by MicMac

Yes indeed! I'll try some more things tomorrow, thanks for your help, cheers.

1 hour ago, beth93 said:

The wheel turns nearly twice lock to lock

OK, it's not the steering lock then, as I had sort of hoped.

 

As for the handbrake, like @MicMac I'd say a mechanical lever handbrake will work (BTW so will the footbrake if you push the pedal really hard), but we'd be uncertain about a pushbutton parking brake.

 

Also, the steering will work, but will feel like you have arm failure (been there, done that, but engine still ran and I was only about a mile from a garage).

Update : this morning we went up the road to where the car had been left.

 

Sadly, no-one had stolen it.

 

As a last resort before trying the potentially hazardous pushing the car down the hill trick, I tried one last time to force the ignition. This time I took a very large hammer and the spare key blade, and after giving it a bloody good larruping it finally gave in and turned! I was so happy to drive the car back the 1/4 mile rather than pushing it.

I have now stripped out around the steering column, as all attempts to get the cylinder out of the barrel have met with no success. And yes, I did turn the key to the correct position. I'm guessing I shall have to go the whole hog and remove the barrel in it's entirety.       

So far I have removed the plastics top and bottom, the airbag, and the steering wheel. Naturally I didn't have the M12 spline socket so had to buy a kit. Though it wasn't expensive and has a few useful other sizes in it.

The one thing that has me baffled is the black oblong box under the column that masks the barrel. I can't fathom how to get that off, and the YouTube tutorials all seem to feature different designs to mine. Any ideas?

Oh, one more thing. I removed the airbag without disconnecting the battery, (naughty), am I likely to get an error code when I reconnect it? Should I disconnect battery anyway?

 

Many thanks again for the help.

2 hours ago, beth93 said:

Oh, one more thing. I removed the airbag without disconnecting the battery, (naughty), am I likely to get an error code when I reconnect it?

Not sure about that, but the main reason for disconnecting the battery is to prevent accidental discharge of the airbag.

Don't turn the ignition on while the airbag is disconnected.